Discussion in 'Literature' started by max-attac, Oct 13, 2011.
From the SWTOR thread here:
TOR Spoilers: [hl=black]the Twileks are an artificial race, one of many created by the Rakatans' "Mother Machine"[/hl]
EDIT: And I was just beaten to it by a few minutes.
I'm really intrigued by how Jedi society will work in this era. It sounds like how I always imagined/wanted the Jedi to be: just following the will of the Force, wherever it takes them, with many different Temples to study and train at. How many of the Tython's inhabitants will be Force-sensitive? Since they seem to have been taken by someone (the Celestials?) from all over the galaxy, maybe the majority of them are Force-sensitive?
Yeah, I kinda figured that one pretty quick, for two reasons. The first and most obvious is that Xim the Despot won't even become an issue for about another seven hundred years; the second is that I'm betting good money that all these people were just hauled to Tython from their respective worlds by the Tho Yor and then left there to develop a kind of polyglot civilization over the next thousand years without much, if any, contact with the galaxy outside the Tython star system. Unless these people have had contact with one or more species passing through the system from outside at some during the ten thosand-year timespan (and we don't know if the Rakata have never been to Tython before the series begins), it's quite possible that this Despot War was fought on one or more planets in the Tython system itself.
Knowing what we know, it wouldn't surprise me if most or even all of them were Force-sensitive. Consider: whoever built them, and for whatever reasons, these colossal pyramidal starships, or Tho Yor, traveled to dozens of worlds across the galaxy (including, we can conclude, Korriban, Ryloth, and Thape) and gathered all these people to a very isolated planet in the center of the galaxy where the Force is very strong. We know that these beings included the best and brightest philosophers, priests, scholars, and warriors from these chosen planets, the very people who, having discovered this mystical power, compared their observations and formed the theological and philosophical study group that became the Je'daii. Because that name is said to be a Dai Bendu term, we know that one or more of those gathered were indeed from that monastic organization, first established on Thape in the Mid Rim, and that the Bendu obvsiously had a significant influence on how the Je'daii formed and evolved.
Now, we don't know that all the people taken were philosophers, priests, scholars, and warriors - for all we know, some were taken just so those geniuses might have some breeding stock to work with - but when you think about it, it fits. A bunch of arks hauling a bunch of people who are likely to be already enlightened enough to have a grasp of some aspect of what we'd consider the Force, even if they don't know it, and they're all brought to a planet strong in the Force, so they're more likely to sense it, and largely isolated so they can't really be distracted by the outside galaxy? Yeah, I'd have to assume they were - either all or mostly - sensitive enough that with enough time and contemplation, they'd figure out that there's a Force going on here...
And here's a question I have for the creators, though I'm uncertain it can be answered right now: will the terms "Ashla" be used for the light side of the Force and "Bogan" be used for the dark side of the Force, respectively? We know that these terms exist in Tython lore at this time, and I'm willing to bet that, like the term Je'daii, they were probably derived from one of the languages brought by the gathered and incorporated into the civilization that developed over the next ten thousand years. I'm not saying that such terms should be used exclusively, instead of the terms "light side" and "dark side," but I can't imagine that they and other ancient-words-that-became-names couldn't be peppered around the stories on occasion, similar to Cade's use of Huttese in Legacy, and that these terms can't be clarified for the reader by a little glossary in the end of each issue they're used in - again, just like Legacy. Seems easy as pie to me, and one more way to easily earn continuity brownie-points (not like they're already racking them up or anything, LOL).
For those of you who don't understand what I'm referring to: in the 28 January 1975 second draft for what became Star Wars, it was established that the Force had two halves: Ashla, the good half, and Bogan, the paraforce or evil half. The August 1975 third draft omits the name Ashla but elaborates on the concept by establishing that the Jedi used the Force while the Sith used the Bogan Force; Luke Starkiller had believed ?bogan? was just a saying, like ?bogan weather, or bogan times.? Ben Kenobi explained, ?There are two halves of the Force of Others. One is positive and it will help you if you use it. But the other half will kill you if you aren?t careful. This negative side of the Force is called the Bogan, which is where the expression came from, and it is the part that is used by the Dark Lords to destroy their opponents. Both halves are always present. The Force is on your right; the Bogan is on your left.?
The names of Ashla and Bogan for the light and dark sides of the Force did not survive to the final film, but the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook (p. 6) brought the name Ashla into canon by revealing that some historians claimed that the Force was first known on a world called Tython and worshipped as the Ashla, the positive energy of the universe. The New Essential Chronology (p. 5) subsequently established that the dark side was known in Tython lore as the Bogan. Both of these can be seen as attempts to honor the origin of these names as early and discarded remnants of earlier drafts of the film by establishing them as early and discarded names in the actual Star Wars universe, and most references since published have confirmed what these two sources established. I don't know if that means this comic series is now stuck with them, but I do feel that occasional references to these terms would be appropriate.
I disagree with the notion that Taoist and/or Buddhist traditions cannot align with the monotheist traditions. In fact, I would say they most certainly can. The more research one does, the more one finds the connections. Dig deep. You might be surprised with what you find.
Ok so i know the Rakata Empire had discovered hyperspace and used there form of the hyperdrive at this time.
However, when did the non-Rakata species invent the hyperdrive? Does Dawn of the Jedi take place before this invention? Because i know there was a time in the Pre-republic era, in which humanity expanded and created colonies, by using generation/sleeper ship before they got the hyperdrive.
IIRC, this era should (or, at least, could) have planets with access to hyperspace cannons and tumbledrives, so there are certainly means to get around to different systems within a local area without bringing in actual hyperdrives.
Although with Tython in the deep core, i would suspect navigational hazards would make access to a hyperspace cannon network improbably at best, though not impossible.
Could you imagine the explorers returning home if that happened?
"Surprise! We're home! We brought some wizards!"
I thought the exact same thing.
That wasn't planned! I went into Legacy hating the idea of Cade and determined not to like it!
Maybe I should plan to dislike this, too?
Can't wait for it to get started! Between this, JO's other book and JJM's two, I have to say that it feels really good to be excited about Star Wars EU again.
This may be a bit counter-intuitive, but I wouldn't necessarily disapprove of Dathomiri culture being somewhat the same throughout its history, as a world that was, by and large, isolated from the larger galaxy until 8 ABY.
1. We have a witch-like culture established on the planet pre-Republic (lets imply this via Dawn of the Jedi) possibly caused by the Rakata.
2. The Paecian Empire bring their language to the planet, but do not establish a massive presence, as evident by the lack of colonisation in future times (or knowledge of the planet).
3. The Sith establish a training academy on-world simply because they are drawn to the Force users, it is, again, a minor establishment just designed to draw out new Sith, and imprints the tattooing we see the Nightbrothers adopt.
4. The Dathomiri culture more or less stays the same from pre-ancient times, absorbing Paecian language and Sith techniques, and replaces Allya with whatever religious deity existed beforehand.
Matriarchal or not, I don't see it being too terrific an issue - the Lost Tribe of the Sith established their system five millennia before FotJ, and it more or less stayed intact due to the lack of external influences.
I also recall that Akanah suggested the Fallanassi are older than the Jedi in Vortex (or at very least Abeloth suggested it)... but the Fallanassi are a good example of extreme lightsiders to me.
That retcon never made too much of an impact because we knew about the Arkanian library, but it adds to the recent knowledge, agreed, though my point indeed remains - it doesn't matter about the Tython Sith because of the time involved.
regarding: one of the characters being a "Dathomiri"
as in, simply, a person from Dathomir?
or a part of the misbegotten "mongrel" retcon race that now includes Asajj and Maul?
Well, we know from TotJ that the Sith were regarded as a myth by the Republic. Sources like Jedi vs. Sith said that some Exiles decided to strike back after conquering Korriban which was how the Jeid knew the Exiles still lived but did not know where Sith space war. I would personally imagine that the Sith on Tython probably died out and knowledge of them relatively unknown as the Jedi Order established itself. I mean a long time between the Force Wars and the Great Hyperspace War. One thing I am curious though is if this covers the near Force Wars era, does this mean we might see Karness Muur and XoXaan?
But anyway, I am really curious on who brought these people to Tython on the Tho Yor.
XoXaan and Muur are from the Hundred Years Darkness, so I doubt we'll see them.
I'm going to assume the Celestials did it, myself, as Tython seems to be a constructed solar system now.
Oopsie, my bad Presumably, we might see though some of the instigators that led to the creation of the Exiles. At least, I hope so.
Indeed, I hope so as well. Not saying they should reveal everything about them but I think we really need to see some more handiwork of the Celestials.
Agreed, I just want Allya to not become unimportant but retain her role as culturechanging impact. So if it is not Forceknowledge, matriarchy or something like that, so long she has a specific impact and Dathomiri culture has one or even more characteristics essentially different in Dawn of the Jedi compared to the later times, I am satisfied.
It even can be that Dathomir in Dawn of the Jedi is like Dathomir we know and in between it changed under Paecian Empire, etc. with Allya going back to the roots changing it back.
You went into Legacy hating it?? I never knew!
In answer to Horsey's question-- Sek'nos Rath. He's irresistible.
Hah! Trace, Legacy was the first comic I ever tried so I was ridiculously skeptical that I could feel for a character with few words and mostly pictures. Several years later I'm embarrassed that I felt that way.
Ooo...Jan, you've now just increased my expectations for Sek'nos Rath so he better live up to them!
I know you both and I've seen Sek'nos Rath. Jan is right. He's the one. Have your drool buckets ready.
-- Evil Mean etc John
Let me guess, he has [link=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090602010851/starwars/images/1/1f/Massassi-JATM.jpg]Sith whiskers[/link]?
Dawn of the Jedi's backstory appears to go to pre- Rakatan Empire times, but the main story is set about to the same time as the fall of the Rakatan Infinite Empire.
Some species had apparent FTL flight long before the Rakata, but Humans started to spread first through sleeper ships and then through the hyperspace cannon systems to the stars only in the past 5000 years or so before the main story in Dawn of the Jedi starts.
Y'know, for some reason I'd assumed he was supposed to be Jedi Master Barbarossa from the promotional painting/cover/whatever, but if you're going to tell me that not a single one of the central protagonists is a human male, well, you couldn't pay me to read this...
from Horsey--"Hah! Trace, Legacy was the first comic I ever tried so I was ridiculously skeptical that I could feel for a character with few words and mostly pictures. Several years later I'm embarrassed that I felt that way.
Ooo...Jan, you've now just increased my expectations for Sek'nos Rath so he better live up to them!"
Hey Horsey--I did not know that Legacy was your first comic book ever.
I just finished the cover for issue 3 and, believe me, he will do.
Ya want humans, we got em.
Not so fast, I said male human protagonist. None of that [link=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LiteralGenie]"Literal Genie"[/link] nonsense if you please...