Lit Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi (New series by Ostrander and Duursema)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by max-attac, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Humans? Good. After all, humans started the Republic. Of course, we're just talking about the Jedi so I don't mind the presence of aliens so much. As far as being male or protagonists, eh, who cares? I'm sure some people have been waiting quite a while to see aliens take the forefront, and females have certainly been sidekicks for quite some time in most media. I don't care who the protagonists are.

    But if the story ever gets out of the Deep Core and into the Core, then the civilized worlds had best be humanocentric, or something will have gone wrong. :p
  2. ForceReader Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2011
    The creation of the Jedi Order is one of the greatest mysteries to us the readers. I like the sound of the series and I hope the series lives up to my expectations. Is it confirmed if they will make it to the beginning of the Republic or not? I think that they are supposed to start a couple centuries before the Republic is supposed to start but I can dream I guess
  3. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Duros was a Core founder, don't forget, and I bet they weren't the only aliens in that group.
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    (edit--please excuse any typos in my quote--running OCR on a photo seemed like it'd be quicker than transcribing text, but really... it isn't.)

    So let's see.

    Human Core Founders:
    Coruscant
    Corellia
    Alsakan
    Kuat
    Alderaan
    Axum
    Esseles
    Anaxes
    Rendili
    Brentaal
    Tepasi
    Humbarine
    Rhinnal

    Alien Core Founders:
    Duro
    Caamas
    Shawken

    There's a reason why, by the late Republic, aliens complained that the Avenue of the Core Founders was humanocentric--because the Republic was a human institution. The Jedi, given their diverse philosophical background, may well originate with many species but the Republic is a human institution with influence from particular aliens species--the Duros for their exploration, the Caamasi for their philosophy, and the Shawkenese for . . . something, perhaps economic or cultural sophistication. They were important, to be certain, but that's just three species. We'll note that the Rimward species are not yet involved at all.

    Not that we're likely to see anything about the Republic in this series, given that it's 700 years away, but it's possible that pre-Republic Core Worlds might be featured, and they'd have little, if any, alien population before widespread hyperspace travel, unless the Rakata were weirder than we thought. I'd hope not, anyway, because we wouldn't want species diversity to be unchanged for 26,000 years. There's still room in the future to show how human Core Worlds had to adapt to alien cultures and the like once they come into contact.
  5. Jedi Trace SouthEast RSA

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    Dec 15, 1999
    star 6
    No, no, no! I hated the IDEA of what I'd heard about it, based solely on rumblings in this forum. Once I sat down and actually READ Broken, I loved it! (That was on June 16, 2007 at approximately 8pm. I wrote a very excited Live Journal entry about it ;) and that was the LAST time I judged anything before reading it with my own eyes.)



    Right there with ya, Sey! Not only was I skeptical, I actively disliked comics.

    ....I know, right? Your laugh here. [face_blush]



    And we have to wait until February? *twitch*

  6. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    Are you in need of assistance? o_O

    A fool's question.

    Pfft, some defender of High Human Culture you are... [face_talk_hand]

    I liked the idea, liked the initial issues, then began to dislike it more and more fairly steadily as time went on, Cade remained exactly the same as in the first issue, Roan Fel became more and more unhinged for seemingly no reason other than SW comics can't seem to abide a benign Emperor (Empresses seem to be another matter), the seriousness of Azlyn Rae's debilitation was basically retconned in the space of a few issues, (redacted Mando'a obscenity) Celeste Morne and her (redacted Mando'a obscenity) Rakghouls showed up, Cade's inexplicable mother read less and less like a character and more and more like some sort of catch-all plot-device, the Mandalorians showed up with the promise of revealing more of the in-universe intrigue and double-dealing going on in the background, and then were promptly dropped off the face of the galaxy, T'ra Saa and K'Kruhk showed up, along with Darth Krayt making the comic feel rather less like its own story than the Republic get-together special, and things seemed to wrap up with the looming extinction of the Fel and Skywalker lines.

    Also must be said that as awesome as the Imperial Knights and their armour were, a lot of the designs were a bit...odd, like Admiral Stazi's Bathrobe-of-the-Admirality, and the Imperial and GA starfighters resembling, respectively, a weaponised Golden Snitch and the awkward offspring of a windmill and a speedboat, and Cade himself looking like something designed by the proverbial committee, with Darth Vader's pants and greaves, Luke Skywalker's Dark Empire coat, Boba Fett's armour and Quinlan Vos's tattoos, biceps and general surliness...

    I'm fairly certain not all of these complaints can be laid at the doors of the author and artist, but I can't deny the series as a whole was a tremendous disappointment.

    I wouldn't get too worked up over it. Odds are good he'll look pretty much exactly like these guys with minor cosmetic differences:

    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090219161517/starwars/images/thumb/c/cf/Asharad.jpg/587px-Asharad.jpg]

    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071113033822/starwars/images/thumb/7/76/Antares_DracoHS.jpg/356px-Antares_DracoHS.jpg]

    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100130163754/starwars/images/5/51/Brodie_Coburn.jpg]

    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100905150550/starwars/images/8/89/Cade23.jpg]

    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100222144018/starwars/images/thumb/9/94/Fehlauur.jpg/365px-Fehlauur.jpg]
  7. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

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    star 6
    I smell a chauvinist Gamorrean somewhere...
  8. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    I'm sure you're the only person who cares.
  9. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    QM's just speaking up for the silent minority of men, who have never had a protagonist to represent them. [face_flag]
  10. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Oh I see. Especially those white dark-haired-fellas.
  11. s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 7
    Yes, but only one that a female nonhuman protagonist could help with, so you're out.

    I realize us women folk are beneath your notice and perhaps we all look the same, but that was Jedi Trace who said that, not me.
  12. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    There is no denying that human worlds formed the bulk of the early Republic's founding membership, but the influence of the Duros & Caamasi was considerably large in the Republic. The Duros basically are credited with the modern hyperdrive (possibly in connection with their Corellian neighbors, who they seem to have a good relationship with) and the Caamasi were a staple of Republic diplomacy.

    RE: Shawken, has it been established that they were not human?

    --Adm. Nick
  13. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    That's an odd statement. Gamorreans are matriarchal, are they not?

    Seems rather unlikely, given the number of people who apparently care enough to Zerg-rush a lone voice of dissent. "Caring" is not a one-way street, you know...

    Yes, presumably the downtrodden and marginalised Male Sith Protagonist lobby will be delighted by the character choices.

    Meanwhile, the Female Twi'lek lobby could not be reached for comment...

    Interesting. And when did you become aware of this affliction..?

    My dear equine, it has perhaps escaped your notice, but I was speaking of male characters all looking the same (though it must be said that the same applies for a lot of Jan's female characters, but someone already touched on that earlier).
  14. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I'm not sure what this has to do with that. We're talking about Jedi here, not people.

    And contrary to popular myth, females are just as human as the rest of us. Unlike the Mandalorians, the Empire has no issues with women being given their fair due.

    Nick: After looking at their original Marvel appearance, they seem pretty human to me. I was just assuming, since I was generally unfamiliar with the world. However, that leaves us down to just two alien species. The Duro, as you note, are glorified technicians--without them the Republic could not have been trailblazing, but they're hardly essential to its operation. The Caamasi may have contributed a bit more to the Republic's "persona," but it largely seems to be a human thing.
  15. Jedi Trace SouthEast RSA

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    Dec 15, 1999
    star 6
    Don't YOU get worked up over it, then. I happen to like the way those guys look. :p


    Sey: DAH-ling, you know we look fabulously alike! Let's go have a latte and get our hairs did. [face_batting]

  16. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    I meant to say 'theological', sorry about that. But even so, having done more research, it seems even a theological outlook (excluding specific dogma of cause) can indeed be amalgamated with a Taoist/Buddhist view of the universe. In fact, regarding your theory about the Force, I essentially agree completely with it - the only difference being I consider the 'Dark Side' to also be the essential entropic aspects of nature (fear, anger, aggression) with this being what is balanced with the 'Light Side' (to create a Yin-Yang Force), and from these essential aspects of the 'Dark Side' there is the 'evil Dark Side' which is hate, greed, etc (essentially Evil) and is not naturally part of the Force (human flaws). The 'natural Dark Side' is just part of the greater 'Force' mentioned by the Jedi and the 'evil Dark Side' is the 'Dark Side' mentioned in the films (thus Mortis makes sense also). Would you agree with this opinion of the Force?
  17. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    With the exception of some radical elements of Mandalorian Culture this lady was the leader of the Mandalorian people.

    There are also several prominate female Mandalorians in the novels, comics and such, while another is forth coming in TCW.

    And just to add some more diversity to their culture Mandalorians also had a homosexual acting Mandalore for a while as well.

    Of course the Fel Empire did eventually start to allow female Stormtroopers and Fighter Pilots, but we all know that the Felpire has nothing to do with the Empire so those don't count.:p
  18. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Who said anything about the Second Empire? I refer to the great and glorious Galactic Empire, of course--the Empire that needs no specification.

    Oh, and I was referring to a certain faction of taciturn Mandalorians.
  19. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    I hope we see a wide use of slug throwers, since i don't think blasters were commonly used during this era.
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Even with the compressed/condensed ending to Legacy/WAR, absolutely YES. I have five years worth of time and money invested in that series, I would gladly welcome more. The One Sith, are new Sith with Nihl at the helm, Cade's half a Jedi now and THOSE changes intrigue me.

    I found the spoiler info interesting for DotJ, but not enough to go out and buy it... especially not with the chance that it could also get whacked early only to be replaced by another era, just because. I will simply wait for the Wook and all the various accompanying Lit Forum threads to keep up to speed on the events that take place. :)

    Only EPIC-awesomeness could change my mind in the future.
    ;)
  21. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    I can understand some of QM's criticism. Problem is, John and Jan are such nice people that you just don't wanna say stuff like that on here.

  22. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

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    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    What about Randy?

    He only hates the haterz.
    :p
  23. Kaje Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Oh.

    Oh my.

    I just came back here because I was bored. Didn't think I'd actually find anything interesting. Wow. I never ever thought they'd actually go back this far. And it's John and Jan. I'm so shocked by this I can't even put into words how excited I am for this series.
  24. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    Barriss, If you were trying to come up with a suitable GFFA analogue for "pig", you should have said "barve", as in "you don't eat a barve (pig) like that all at once". As it was, you merely engaged in humanocentric stereotyping of Gamorreans. [face_shame_on_you] o_O ;)

    Fair enough. :p

    I'm not sure what this has to do with that. I'm talking about characters, not people. [face_talk_hand]

    Somehow, that doesn't surprise me. ;)

    So what? I'm not complaining about female characters in positions of leadership (I love Duchess Satine, but don't push me...[face_mischief]); I just want one of our leads in this series to be a male human (current line-up is one male Sith, one female "Dathomiri", presumably human, and yet another example of someone's fascination with Twi'leks...). If there isn't a male human among the leads, I'm not buying the series, and that's not a threat (that would be absurd), but merely a statement of fact. Generally speaking, I'm not interested in investing myself in a female or alien protagonist. That's one of the reasons why I've never bothered with Knight Errant despite generally enjoying John Jackson Miller's writing.

    More like cognitive dissonance, but I'm not going to go into that because I already explained it years ago... [face_talk_hand]

    Suffice to say, I'm greatly enjoying the homogenous and organised Mandalorian culture in TCW. :cool:

    If that's actually asserted in-universe, that's going on my Big List of Things I Don't Like About Legacy, given it would be an example of discontinuity. The OT-era Empire had both female Stormtroopers (according to George Lucas) and TIE Fighter pilots (according to The Force Unleashed).

    I'd still like to see what the frell was going on with the Mandalorians, even if I'm vaguely terrified of how that might turn out. :p

    Pretty much, but I just finished reading through Legacy again and felt I had to get it out or explode.

    And Mandalorians. ;)
  25. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Actually I'm supporting you, not attacking you. Strange I know.

    Well its sort of OU, but easily dismissed. Ges Gistang(I think thats her name) was heavily advertised as the first female Stormtrooper.

    I'd also contend that a one off statement from George Lucas doesn't automatically equal canon if it never finds its way into an official course of somekind. I mean George Lucas just gave Darth Vader a Scream award, that doesn't make the scream award a canonical part of Darth Vader's story.

    That said I didn't know about the visible female pilots in TFU, so I stand corrected. The Empire certainly did have some women even without these pilots, but part of what I was thinking was that we have far more Mandalorian females with names and back stories than we do Imperial of women from the Palpatine Empire.

    On the flip side though Isard and Daala are as prominate as Satine in pure story telling terms.