Star Wars: Episode III and Ancient Rome

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by StarDude, May 25, 2002.

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  1. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 5
    I recently started researching Ancient Rome and I realized that the whole government system in Star Wars is taken from it. And if there really is a new villain in the next Star Wars movie, then I don't think it will be a bounty hunter. Instead, I think it will be a political leader. He/she would be inspired by Julius Ceaser. Who ended up being assasinated.

    Here's why:


    From the Chronicle Encyclopedia of History -

    In the first century BC a widening gulf between rich and poor led to civil war. Julius Caesar, Marcus Crassus, and Gnaeus Pompeius united as the First Triumvirate in 60 BC to restore order. But Caesar soon seized sole power and ruled as dictator until he was assassinated in 44 BC.

    Caesar?s imperial tendencies led to his murder by republican

    Caesar?s death was followed by civil war between his heir, Octavian, and his aide, Mark Antony. After victory at the Battle of Actium in 31 BC, Octavian took the title Augustus, meaning ?revered,? and became the first Roman emperor, launching a golden age for Rome.

    A panel of the Altar of the Peace, celebrating Augustus?s reign

    The empire continued to grow, but by the third century corruption, barbarian attacks, and civil war began to threaten its stability. Emperor Diocletian restored order in 293 by dividing government of the empire between himself, his colleague Maximian, and two able generals.

    By 293 the empire?s expansion had made it unmanageable.




    If you are following me, then you know that this would suggest that Palpatine is not the establisher of the Empire. Someone else is. And that someone would be assassinated but his Empire would continue to grow. This also seems to support the idea of Sidious and Palpatine being two different people.

    Perhaps the *new villain* and/or Tarkin will be involved.
  2. 5darth2maul1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 4
    EDIT: Whoops, didn't read the bottom of your post. Good thought...

    5D2M1
  3. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 28, 2001
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    Yes, but it does make you wonder.
  4. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 28, 2001
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  5. The Force Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 1999
    star 1
    I think you are totally right on. In recent interviews GL has spoken about his fascination with ancient Rome. He's even mentioned he'd like to produce a tv series about it, similar to the Young Indy series. There's also been some speculation in the Ep II boards about the legend of Romulus and Remus as being the inspiration of Palpatine/Sidious. I think this has come up as "evidence" of Sid and Palps not being the same person. In any case, I think the history and lore of Ancient Rome is key to events of EpIII, especially the above facts. Great research!
  6. Lord_Starscream Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
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    Tere are also direct Parralels with the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazi's.
  7. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 28, 2001
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    Thank you very much, The Force. :) That's what I was thinking.
  8. trinto_duaba Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 3
    And some of us are fascinated by Lucas' empire that is SW.
  9. Jabachile Jedi Master

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    Sep 16, 2001
    star 4
    The Empire reminds me way too much of the Nazis...just look at those officers!
  10. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
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    But the exact politics of Star Wars is almost identical to that of Ancient Rome's.

    SD
  11. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

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  12. Solar_Sailor Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    Hmm...I still think it was Palpy who created the empire. Even though it was because of Caesar's death that Octavian/Augustus became emperor, in SW it could just mean that SENATOR Palpatine was "murdered" metaphorically when his true form EMPEROR Palpatine came out.
  13. DarthVertigo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    I like this theory, but Solar_Sailor brings up a good point. Remember, Obi-wan tells Luke that Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin. Figuratively, Sidious could betray and murder Palpatine.
  14. Malkuth_Toltec Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 1
    Its a nice parallel, but for me, it just wouldn't work. I like the idea of Palpatine disguising his Sith persona to covertly take control of the republic. It seems far more devious and evil.

    And remember the shot in TPM after the

    "Always two, there are, a master and an apprentice."

    "But which one was destroyed, the master or the apprentice?"

    Then a shot of Palpatine. It kind of indicates that he was Sidious, Darth Maul's master, does it not?

    Well, we'll see soon enough... Well, not soon enough at all. What's the date? May 25th 2005? Ouch. :(
  15. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    The historical elements of CLONES and the prequels in general are what's fascinating about these movies. Lucas has said that he doesn't simply want to do a movie where an entire civilization is overtaken by an evil presence; rather, he would like to see the evil grow out of the established order. He feels this is more accurate and he's got a lot of history to back him up. It's not only Ancient Rome, but the American Revolution (taxation, seperatists), the rise of fascism, and the French Revolution (I see Anakin becoming a sort of Napoleon, hoping to reunite a country in his own image). This is a fascinating and complex thing for any modern movie to do, much less a summer blockbuster and I don't think Lucas gets enough credit for it. It's also what alienates most people from these movies. These themes aren't as simple as the underdogs going out to destroy the Death Star. But they are fascinating in their own way.
  16. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 5
    I've been studying the Revolutionary War for nearly a month now. And I am about to make a thread called Star Wars: Episode III and the Revolutionary War. In the Spoilers thread I made a thread called The Coruscant Massacer that showed a possible scenario parallel to the Boston Massacre.
  17. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 28, 2001
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  18. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

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  19. YODA the all powerful Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 4
    StarDude...

    Thanks for posting a History thread. The similarities go deeper than just Palpy. Here is the original post to a thread I created a few years ago..

    "Subject: The Jedi Council and Rome
    Author: YODA the all powerful Date Added: 8/11/99 3:54am (PST)
    For those of you who don't know, I am a history major. You have been warned.

    I am currently taking an extensive class on Ancient Rome, and I came across something in my homework that made me think about the Jedi Council's role in Republic Politics.

    I must first preface this by saying that much of what GL is doing in TPM screams of Roman historical refrences. Primarily the reference to the "Republic" which was first defined by Rome. The rise of Palpatine and the death of the Republic paralleling Caesar Agustus' rise and the fall of the Roman empire... well, I could go on.

    Anyways, the following passage is from Cicero:
    But the highest and most important authority in the state is that of the augurs (the highest religious authority), to who is accorded great influence. But it is not because I myself am an auger that I have this opinion, but because the facts compel us to think so. For if we consider their legal rights, what power is greater than that of adjourning assemblies and meetings convened by the highest officials,with or without imperium, or that of declaring null and void the acts of assemblies provided over by such officials? What is more important than the abandoment of any business already begun, if a single auger says, "On another day"? What power is more important than forcing consuls (highest political office) to resign their offices? What right is more sacred than that of giving or refusing permission to hold an assembly of the people or of the plebians, or that of aborogating laws illegally passed?... Indeed, no act of any magistrate at home or in the field can have any validity for any person without their authority.


    Now it must first be said that Cicero is one of the most widely read sources of Roman History. So if GL is up on his Roman Antiquity, then he may have some knowledge of this passage... doubtful, but it may be lurking in the back of his head somewhere.

    My question then is this:
    Does the Jedi Council hold similar authority over the Senate and the Supreme Chancellor?

    Is Palpatine's crusade to destroy the Jedi not merely religious, but politically inclined?

    Also, I seem to remember some quote from Mace Windu after OB1 announced he was ready to face the trials that expressed concern about how their religion could impact the politics of the Republic... "Now is not the time for this... (something about the Senate and Naboo)"

    This to me shows that the Jedi Council does play some role in Galactic Politics, but is religion as politically powerful as it was in ancient Rome?"


    Now as to your question of two people establishing the Empire, I think it is more like one person with two personas. I have a feeling there will be roles expanded upon in the EU, but as for what is shown in the film, I doubt "there will be another."
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