Books STAR WARS: LORDS OF THE SITH by Paul S. Kemp

Funny, that's what I was wondering about you. Every question asked so far was handily answered in the novel.

 

No, Vader's thoughts is not really convincing in the novel.

 

So ... you are confused because the answers that are given don't fit your tastes? Lol.

 

were mostly talking about what would happen if Vader tried to attack palpatine, not what is in the book. Palpatine would kill Vader, and handily

 

It doesn't make much sense in Sith logic.

Palpatine still had to deal those lyleks, he could not use all his strength on Vader at the same time. Plus it would be an ambush. If Vader still had his lightsaber in EP VI, it would be much quicker and safer to kill Palpatine.

 

Are you referring to "EU Sith logic"?

And I often found that Sith logic is a term for actually illogical actions. Can't really fault a character for going against what fans call "Sith logic".

For example this here. It may feel good to kill your boss, but if you don't have the resources available to replace him, then the joy will be short-lived.

 

Yes, it does. Vader knew Sidious was still more powerful than him and could likely take both him and the Lyleks at the same time. He also knows that Sidious still has more Sith knowledge that he has not passed onto Vader. Therefore it is not in his best interests to kill Sidious at that time even if he could, no matter how much he hates him.

 

Not likely, Sidious and Vader had to work together to bring the Lylek queen down. Sidious was not more powerful than Plagueis at that time, but he still killed his master by surprise(in his sleep), Plagueis did the same to Tenebrous, the list could go on and on and on since it's the tradition of the Sith.

 

Sith Logic is dumb if it means murdering your master while you are pursued by dangerous enemies.

I'd rather this type of "logic", and I am generous by even calling it that, is axed.

 

It means to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

What the heck are you even talking about?

Without the help of Sidious, Vader might not even make it out alive. He has no idea what resources the enemy has.

Secondly, if Tarkin or someone else gets wind of Vader's deed, they just might blast him to oblivion with a fleet of Star Destroyers.

Thirdly, there is still Sith stuff that Vader can learn, if he murders his master he hampers his own growth.

It's so stupid on so many levels. Yea he kills two birds with one stone, alright, and one of the birds is himself!

 

Okay, throw out the question of if Vader could kill Sidious. Why would he do it? He still has stuff to learn from him, and Vader's position in the Empire is far from secure (which is how the Emperor had arranged it). You seem to think that Vader is an idiot ruled by his emotions like Anakin was. Vader is a calculating villain who knows that it is best to wait for the right time to turn on Sidious, which was clearly not at this moment when both are in danger and he had no resources of his own to fall back on to take control of the Empire.

 

No, Vader pretty much had the idea to contact the Imperials, it was his idea to let the girl lead them to the village.

It was a wild jungle, underground, how would Tarkin find out? He didn't even know that the Emperor could use the Force. Why would Tarkin do it if Vader could offer them power to rule? That's how business in the Empire work. You truly believe there is real loyalty among them? That's funny.

To become the true Sith master like all the previous Sith did, to rule the Empire. Sidious killed Plagueis before he learned cheat death from him as well.

 

How would he do that? He has no status in the Empire beyond being Palpatine's enforcer. If Palpatine dies, no one in the Empire would think that Vader is his successor. Someone on the ruling council would take over or the Empire would fragment, and either way a lot of Imperials would be trying to kill this upstart brute claiming to be the new emperor and would likely succeed.

As for Sidious killing Plagueis, he had already learned everything else from him and likely knew that he would never get that particular secret from him. Whereas Vader has only been a Sith for a few years and still probably has a decade of basic knowledge to learn. Smart apprentices don't kill their Sith master after only a few years. These are partnerships that last decades.

 

Who dares to step out? All Vader need to do is work with Tarkin and a few moff to make a plan to usurp the power. Luke was a nobody in the Empire power structure but Vader still tried to use him to take down the Emperor. Obviously to him, the task is just to kill the Emperor.

No, Plagueis was going to give him that but he decided it was not important.

 

Well, potentially Mas Amedda, Ars Dangor, Sate Pestage, Armand Isard, and whoever is on the Joint Chiefs at this point could all have a shot at taking power. Amedda is most likely, but him being a alien could work against him, so Dangor likely might take power instead. And since Amedda knows who Vader is he would likely order his death immediately.

You mean Moff Tarkin, who at this point is nowhere near the halls of power on Coruscant due to overseeing construction of the Death Star? The Moff Tarkin who is rumored to have displeased the Emperor and been sent to some backwater as punishment due to the secretive nature of the project? The Moff who a this point Vader does not have a good working relationship with? Not to mention the fact that Vader is stranded without any quick way of contacting potential allies before news of the Emperor's death would spread. He'd be left scrambling for power among many other ambitious officers and would have a weaker case than any of them.

Except that by that point Vader was unquestionably in command of the Imperial military and had secured his role as the Emperor's second-in-command. People would know not to challenge his power by that point, so if he managed to overthrow the Emperor and get Luke as his apprentice, nobody could say a thing at that point without getting killed.

Maybe. I'm not sure about that. Doesn't really matter though, since Darth Plagueis is non-canon and we really don't know anything for sure about the relationship between Sidious and Plagueis in the new canon.

 

None of these would have the absolute power against each other. They would turn on themselves first if they wanted to take power.

Of course, power could solve such "relationship" out, they have military power and a superweapon on their hand.

Who dares to challenge Vader at that time? I saw none.

 

And whoever won would kill Vader.

The Death Star is still being built, and neither would have anything to offer the other. Vader would likely not even consider going to Tarkin.

That was my point? He could overthrow the Emperor then because he has actual power in the Empire, whereas he lacks that power in Lords of the Sith. Look, just because he has the opportunity to kill the Empeor does not mean he must take it. That is not the way of the Sith. The way to take true Sith mastery is recognize when it is the right time to do so. Vader has more to learn and must build up a power base in the Empire. See what he is doing in the Darth Vader comic. He is building power, eliminating rivals, and beginning to make his move because he has realized his position is threatened and that the right time is soon approaching, particularly since he now has a candidate for an apprentice after discovering he has a son.

 

You are simplifying the story beyond recognition. You honestly seem to believe that Star Wars is dumb.

 

I thought Sidious lied about not having mastery of how to cheat death, considering what we now know about how Padme died. Sidious was obviously going to lie about that point, because he knew Anakin was stronger than him after what had occurred on Grievous' ship. Yes there was the fact Anakin was unbalanced, but he could still have overcome Sidious at that point.

 

Knowledge is the main thing that keeps a Sith Master alive - as soon as the apprentice learns all the Master's secrets are mastered by the apprentice, then the Master becomes... obsolete to the apprentice. Vader is not a fool, and knows that Sidious is worth more to Vader alive as his master

 

So Vader would just stay here and let them kill, or plan to use the power struggle?

It's still the super weapon and they have a lot resources on their hand. To rule the galaxy using Vader's reputation and Tarkin's military position.

He already had a lot of power in the time of LoS. None of the Imperials dare to challenge Vader.

 

I don't think Vader cared much for the Death Star

Vader would most survive most assassination attempts against him, but would he realistically just settle into the Emperors throne, what exactly IS Vader's official position at this time? His power in the Empire in LotS isn't as big as it is by the OT - he is still gaining his reputation - even in ANH you have Imps like Motti who don't have any real respect for Vader

 

Vader is properly just one of those guys that just hangs around at the Imperial court until the Emperor sends him to do something and will have just as much authority as the Emperor deems he needs to get that done.

 

Exactly. Vader's status in the Empire at this point stems from the Emperor. If the Emperor dies, that status is gone. That appears to still be true by ANH and currently in Darth Vader, but it is clearly not the case by ESB. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how that happens.