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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Comics Star Wars (Marvel) #2: Skywalker Strikes, part 2 (of 6)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The2ndQuest , Feb 4, 2015.

  1. DarthTalgus

    DarthTalgus Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Welcome to the forums :D
    Fun Fact : smisk is the swedish word for spanking :p
     
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  2. smisk

    smisk Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2015
    haha thanks, and that's good to know! :p
     
  3. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    re. Cassady's art. Yes, he may be off Star Wars brand model on a few parts but the reason I think he's great for Star Wars is that it's dynamic as hell. I liked the art in Darth Vader but it was pretty static. Like watching a movie, sure, which is cool if you want to recreate being immersed in watching the films. But Cassady's art, which is incredibly detailed in it's own way, but more importantly it zips along likes a comic. Which is good!
     
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  4. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Not that I disagree (I do disagree that it's wrong to read something and then put it back on the shelf -- I simply find it sleazy), but profit has nothing to do with the moral aspect of what constitutes stealing. Besides, if you don't take something to keep it, it's not theft, by definition. It may be a violation of some sort under certain circumstances (always defined by the owner; and I can see how a business-owner may actually think it's good for business to let people read the 1st issue of a series for free), but different from the stealing sort. Is it even stealing if you actually lift a book from a store, read it, and then return it? Yeah, well, that is stealing -- stealing-lite. :p
     
  5. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    The way I see it, a book/comic conveys knowledge and is a form of entertainment. If you take that from a store without buying it, even if it wasn't the physical object, it's theft. Like seeing a movie at a movie theater by slipping in the back way and not paying -- that's like reading a comic in a shop. You got the story and visuals for free.

    And profit is part of the morality of stealing IMO -- you're taking money away from someone(s) who worked to make a living. If I had read the whole Knights of the Old Republic comic series in the comic shop without ever dropping a dime, how could I face JJM on this forum ever again?
     
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  6. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    comic shope didn't get no profit but someone read it on their time and money. It cost the comic shope money to get that book in, the person who read it didn't give the comic shope money back for the book they read cover to cover. Ain't a library, yo!
     
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  7. SilentGuy66

    SilentGuy66 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2014
    I'd be too nervous to read one page of a comic in store so this whole debate of whether it is right is invalid to me
     
  8. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    It's not theft unless the perpetrator intends to deprive the owner of ownership. If you don't claim ownership over some thing, it cannot be said that you are stealing it. So, you can't call it theft; that's misusing the English language. That's not to say that perusing a book for free inside a store isn't a bad practice; but it certainly isn't theft.

    Also, profit has nothing to do with the morality of theft because it's all about property. Property is usually connected to profit, but profit itself is not the issue when it comes to theft, only who the rightful owner is. Theft is wrong because it deprives someone of their property. Depriving someone of their profit is not theft.
     
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  9. Good_News_Nobody

    Good_News_Nobody Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    The man was simply spoiling himself in a comic book store.
     
  10. Taalcon

    Taalcon Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 1998

    This ties into the rights of licenced intellectual property, and the rights/violation thereof of the holder of the rights. When it book form, the owner of the book holds the implicit licence to access that instance of the intellectual property. Unlicenced access to intellectual property is a form of theft. Hence digital piracy being a crime when what is being shared is a virtual copy of the material, and not the theft of a physical book or DVD.

    For example, with Kindle books, you are not purchasing a book, you are purchasing a licence to access a digital instance of that book. In many cases with software, the software is downloaded free, but what you purchase is a licence for full access to that software.

    If the comic shop or book store (the present owners of the physical item AND the licence) has a policy that does not allow visitors to the shop full access to the entirety of a work, you are violating their ownership rights of that licence. You are taking something (a commercial entertainment experience) without agreement, and against their wishes and rights.

    Your logic is used generally to justify file-sharing of copyrighted works, such as music, movies, games, scans of comics, etc in order to explain why you shouldn't legally have to pay to enjoy someone elses' commercial offering. It's an unfortunate and confused form of entitlement.
     
  11. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    All I'm saying is that the word "theft" does not apply in this instance. Maybe it's some sort of license violation, sure, and perhaps that can be defined as some sort of misdemeanor or whatnot (if the owner indeed is against it), but it is not theft. Words have meaning; we can't abuse that meaning. Unless you actually walk out of the store with the comic without having paid for it, it's not theft.
     
  12. Taalcon

    Taalcon Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 1998

    Have you ever heard of Theft of Services?

    Your definition of theft, especially in regards to intellectual property, is far more limited legal definitions using that word. 'Identity Theft' and 'Theft of Intellectual Property', as additional examples, do not involve the removal of a physical product - they involve the unauthorized use of ideas/identification. The use of the word Theft has expanded to be more accurate and relevant to a 21st Century Reality.

    Creating a digital replica of a work of intellectual property, and leaving the original in the story, is still an illegal act of theft. Because this leaves evidence (computer data, files, etc), it can be prosecuted. You having used a merchant's product in an unauthorized way without making a physical, traceable remnant doesn't change the principle.

    Sneaking into a movie without paying is actually a very relevant comparison point. Taking use of a product offered for sale without purchasing it or the explicit permission of the business is theft of services. From that link, "Withholding of payment without reason would be considered larceny. Although the definition of larceny is theft of personal property."
     
  13. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    I do not condone the abuse of words, or, as you say, "expanding their meaning to be more accurate and relevant to today's reality". If a new concept comes up, you need to come up with a new word for it. Twisting an already-existing concept which doesn't apply into applying should not be an option. Especially when legislating.

    Words have power; the only reason to use "theft" is because it sounds so much nastier than "license violation", as the FBI link you provided beautifully demonstrates.
     
  14. Taalcon

    Taalcon Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 1998

    Meanings change and are adjusted by usage over time. They simply do. That's part and parcel of living language. It's why this is a computer:
    [​IMG]

    Just as much as this is a computer:
    [​IMG]

    Theft is taking something you don't have the right to take, generally to the detriment and disapproval of the rightful owner/provider. There are different nuances, iterations, and modes, but the general idea is pretty clear, which is why the category has remained in solid use. Lexical pseudo-snobbery notwithstanding.

    ..


    That being said, Star Wars #002 is awesome. I recommend everyone buy a copy if you can afford to do so. If not, maybe a friend will let you read theirs, or you can wait to request it from your library system when it comes out in TPB.
     
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  15. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Theft is taking something you don't have the right to take, which is exactly why not taking anything isn't theft, see?
     
  16. Taalcon

    Taalcon Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 1998

    So does your brain immediately forget the stories and imagery you experience when you sneak into a theater, or read a comic book you've been told not to? Things normally you would need to pay for, or at least get permission from the service provider? Or do you take the memories of that experience with you when you leave? You leave having gained something you should not have gained without authorization from the owner.

    'Theft of services' is a thing. It's real. It exists. You can be prosecuted for it. Your word-snobbery will not help you out. Or help you out in actually understanding how language works.

    You are being misleading suggesting to others that not compensating or receiving authorization for a service or product you took advantage of is not a legally defined form of theft.
     
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  17. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    I am not talking about legal definitions, and I am not saying that there aren't ways of depriving people of justly earned revenue that aren't theft. It doesn't have to be theft to be a violation of someone's rights.
     
  18. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    [​IMG]

    Also keep in mind that most bookstores serve as temporary holding places of books. If the books don't sell, they go right back to the publisher as lost revenue. While some large stores can afford to support "reading areas" (usually by making extra cash on the side with an in-store coffee shop), most can't. So the store itself makes it "illegal" to read in-shop without buying first.

    ...I feel like I should bring this back to the topic at hand. Uh. I tried to find this issue at the only comic shop within walking distance and it was closed (permanently). Herald of the future? The whole "reading in-shop" debate might be a mute point in a decade at this rate if everything goes online.
     
  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    One difference with comics is they are mostly non-returnable!
     
  20. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    just like all these people that download games or movies, or music for free. thats becoming a norm, and it's wrong. but in some places like borders you can read stuff and they dont say anything
     
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  21. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Now they really can't say anything!
     
  22. SilentGuy66

    SilentGuy66 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2014
    God, I am so sick of this "reading comics in store" debate either make a thread for it or get back to the subject at hand-star wars:mad:
     
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  23. Taalcon

    Taalcon Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 1998

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Pearlsaber

    Pearlsaber Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2013
    I thought this was a great issue. Better than #1, IMO.

    The AT-AT scene was cool.

    Vader definitely got used to his old saber quickly. He threw that thing everywhere! :p
     
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  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Yeah, I love how Vader is in full-on super-villain mode in Aaron's Star Wars comic and in Gillen it's more Vader is the coldest, most brutal guy around. Slight distinction, the former is more evil. I like both but in "Star Wars" he seems a bit more of an unstoppable threat.
     
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