Lit Star Wars: On The Front Lines

Discussion in 'Literature' started by King of Alsakan, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Grand Admiral Paxis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 3
    Schrodinger's Klivian: If Hobbie collides with an AT-AT, he can be regarded as existing in the seemingly contradictory state of being both alive and dead, at least until Wedge recounts the (possibly tall) tale to new Rogue Squadron recruits.

    All kidding aside, this is a really disappointing decision. I'm a bit iffy on the subject of having characters, even secondary ones, who were really fleshed out in Legends and have long, rich backstories killed off - at least for seemingly no reason in a really pointless manner. If it was an original story in something major like a novel or a video game? Sure. But a casual throwaway line or a sidebar in a sourcebook? That's got to sting for long-time fans of the character (or anyone holding out hope that the old Rogue Squadron gang was going to come back in some capacity).
  2. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 5
    This would, at least, make "Hoth Stuff" make slightly more sense.
  3. Grand Admiral Paxis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 3
    Since you mentioned it, that's a real Legends retcon of Hoth Stuff that I'm referring to. Hoth: Under the Ice established that most of the events of that comic and Hobbie's "death" were just a tall tale that Wedge tells new recruits to Rogue Squadron (with Hobbie jumping out at the end to scare the kark out of everyone, if memory serves).
  4. Noash_Retrac Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 4
    I think Complete Locations ('16) just confirmed Hobbie survived the ice battle to escort Bright Hope off-planet.
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  5. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 5
    I know (though it was actually Janson who 'died' there, IIRC) and I'm saying that I always thought that was a bit of a goofy way of retconning in a fairly obscure story, but if Wedge has multiple fake-death-to-mess-with-recruits stories about Hoth, it would actually now fit in better.
  6. Grand Admiral Paxis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 3
    You're right, actually. I completely forgot that Janson also fake died in Legends! Well... From now on, I'm just going to treat any lines claiming a Rogue Squadron member died with the same suspicion I have of the deaths of Marvel comic and movie characters. :p
  7. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Any new named Mon Cal cruisers in the book, besides the Striking Distance?

    --Adm. Nick
  8. The Positive Fan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2015
    star 4
    The canon Complete Locations actually refers to Janson escorting Bright Hope off-planet, not Hobbie.

    Also, just to throw this out there, Hobbie's databank entry doesn't exactly say he survived Hoth, only that he ejected from his speeder before it crashed into the walker. He could easily have been killed later in the battle taking out a walker or fighting stormtroopers. (Although as has been pointed out, the exact same databank entry still includes a reference to Hobbie defecting with Biggs, not Wedge, so it probably shouldn't be taken as authoritative in any event.)
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  9. JediBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2015
    star 3
    Yes their captive and two leaders from Twilight Company were there, and one of them (Namir, the protagonist) fought in the battle. So there's no contradiction there, "someone" from Twilight Company fought at Hoth.

    That sounds like a very silly retcon, given that we never see any signs of evacuation, and IIRC the dialouge makes it clear they're trying to destroy it. In fact, I ended up looking up the script: (spoilered for length)

    Show Spoiler

    HAN Okay, how do we blow it up?
    (all eyes on him)
    There's always a way to do that.

    (CONTINUED)
    CONTINUED: But no one has anything. Leia watches the silence,
    frustrated. Finally, rallying them:

    LEIA Han's right.
    Han is surprised.

    ADMIRAL STATURA (at first hesitant)
    In order for that amount of power to
    be contained, that base would need
    some kind of thermal oscillator...

    FINN There is one.
    All eyes on Finn as he moves around the hologram to a location
    on the Starkiller Base -- it is ZOOMED IN: A GIANT BLACK

    HEXAGONAL STRUCTURE.
    FINN (CONT'D) Precinct 47. Here.

    ADMIRAL STATURA
    (HYPOTHESIZING) If we can destroy that oscillator,
    it might de-stabilize the core and
    cripple the weapon.

    MAJOR EMATT ... Maybe the planet.
    Poe then tries to bolster spirits, looking at the BIG
    HEXAGONAL STRUCTURE: the Oscillator.

    POE We'll go in there and we'll hit that
    oscillator with everything we got.


    So yeah, Han and Leia want to blow it up, Finn proposes a way to blow it up, and the Generals say "Yes, this might cripple it, or even blow it up!" No need for a stupid "they were only trying to damage it while they fled and Poe destroyed it by pure accident" retcon. I think the writer of this book may have taken the "cripple the weapon" bit from the script too literally and missed the part where they imply hitting the oscillator could destroy the whole planet.

    Yes this was confirmed in the Propaganda book.
  10. JediBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2015
    star 3
    Also according to the Wook, the new Character Encyclopedia says Dr. Evazan lived, but the Databank says he died. It's a shame, overall the new canon has been great at making things consistent, referencing events and places from other works, and I know some small inconsistencies will always happen, but when it comes to some stuff like the Databank or Ultimate Star Wars it seems like they didn't really put any effort in.
  11. Nobody145 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 5
    None that I've seen so far, so aside from Striking Distance, nothing new unfortunately. Just the regular old general facts- Profundity was one of the first converted to combat, Home One was the flagship, etc.

    The Twilight Company person was someone named Chanda Bethari, who is new (I think?). Unless they transferred to Twilight later, but its definitely not Namir. The way the POV was written, you'd think Twilight Company had been fighting at Hoth. They probably just threw in the Twilight reference for the heck of it. Though the book has several odd inconsistencies like that (Grievous on a frigate instead of battleship, saying fighters were launched after the arrival at Scarif, although there's room for interpretation there too of course).

    I just always found the oscillator thing stupid, that they would have such a vulnerable part so near the surface. The first Death Star's weakness required a near impossible shot, the second was destroyed mid-construction, and Starkiller base just required a few people to plant bombs to give a big enough opening. Although they didn't try to evacuate Yavin either, but old EU sources had the Rebel fleet elsewhere just in case. Now, post-Rogue One, there wasn't much of a Rebel fleet left after Scarif (Home One was probably still under reconstruction).

    Its a retcon, yes, but I don't mind a little bit more detailed plan than what TFA had.

    Ah, I didn't read the propaganda book, so that's news to me. The preview pages I saw online didn't interest me much so I mostly forgot that book existed.

    I'm not too happy about the Hobbie thing too either, but not like there would have been anything for Rogue Squadron to do post-Jakku, with how they've killed off the post-RotJ era (and most things about intended as prelude to TFA instead). I do wish there was better coordination, there was supposed to be better consistence with the Story Group in charge, but nothing surprising in that regard either.

    No Raddus picture, unfortunately, as Sgt. Melshi is listed as the ground commander, while General Ramda was in charge of the defense.
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  12. Coherent Axe Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2016
    star 1
    A lot of the Databank entries seem to have just been ported over from that old Encyclopedia, so it still has material from that odd interim period that Absolutely Everything and similar material occupies, where they were being produced before the changeover.
  13. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    You know I might have been interested in this but $50? No way, no feckin way. The best online discount price I'll get it at is in the region of £28-30. No.
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  14. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Found an early copy at my local Barnes & Noble today. Great book, filled with tons of the lore and little cool connections that Dan Wallace is an absolute pro at. It reads as a great narrative of the main battle of the movie trilogies, sprinkling in cool fact, recanonization of cool details, and tying in various sources into a cohesive story. His take on Jakku, for example, is the best one I've seen that accounts for all versions of the battle we've had. ^:)^

    --Adm. Nick
  15. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    Are you planning on writing up continuity notes of some sort?
  16. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
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    Yeah, in bits. Probably more in the Endor to Jakku thread, where I just posted a few points.

    However, I want people to buy the book. The art is great, the writing spot on, and well worth the investment. :)

    --Adm. Nick
  17. Nobody145 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 5
    So, @AdmiralNick22, which Ackbar picture do you like better, the Endor one or Jakku? ;)

    I wish there had been more space battles, but still very nice.
  18. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    They are BOTH gorgeous, though I'd more inclined to the Endor portrait. But honestly, they are both amazing pieces of art. =D=

    --Adm. Nick
  19. The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2010
    star 4
    Is there any new information on the roster of pilots in the Rebel squadrons at any of the battles?
  20. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    I already pre-ordered it months ago! I'm just quite impatient. :p
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  21. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
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    No, nothing like that. Though I'll note that Phoenix Squadron was back and participated at the Battle of Jakku.

    --Adm. Nick
  22. Noash_Retrac Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 4
    Things I'd like to know:

    - Naboo
    - Bravo Squadron pilots?

    - Geonosis
    - Jedi and clones?

    - Christophsis
    - Ships?

    - Ryloth
    - clones?

    - Coruscant
    - ships and commanders?

    - Scarif
    - ships and participants?

    - Yavin
    - participants?

    - Hoth
    - ships and participants?

    - Endor
    - ships and participants?

    - Jakku
    - ships and participants?

    - Starkiller Base
    - participants?

    - Others
    - ships, participants, dates?
  23. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
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    @Noash_Retrac

    There are a few tidbits on many of the categories you list, but this book isn't designed to be an info dump for pilots, ship types, numbers, etc. It's broader in scope, but Dan does a great job dropping little tidbits into each section.

    As an example, we learn that the Separatist fleet at Christophsis contained 30 capital ships. We know that Wedge & Hobbie (as well as Zev, Dak, Jason, and Luke) all weren't just part of a generic "Rogue Group", but an elite X-wing squadron. Rogue Squadron. :D

    My favorite little tidbit so far was that Ackbar had defeated the Empire in several fleet battles prior to Endor, all of them against numerically superior fleets. Adds to Ackbar's legendary status, explains why folks like General Shale on the Imperial side revered him as a Grand Admiral and rightly feared direct confrontation with him.

    --Adm. Nick
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  24. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    My copy arrives today but I'm devastated for ol' bugbite


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
  25. Bly Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 4
    Same. It's almost like Rogue Squadron's most familiar elements (to say nothing of the unit itself) are just being systematically removed from nu-canon. :(
    Vthuil likes this.