Saga Star Wars Philosophy: Jedi and Sith

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Twi'lekPrince, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Obi-yoda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2014
    star 2
    @DRush76 Then the SW universe would be in a whole heap of trouble, wouldn't it?
    Also... I'm going to take this back to the ultimate basics: the ones everyone who watches the movie thinks at first.

    Good=Jedi=Light
    Evil=Sith=Darkness

    However, as presented by Corran Horn, Force-users are not fixed in their alignment, but always moving.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Obi-yoda, Mar 19, 2014
  2. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    The time is when you must put the greater good above yourself. Anakin should have given up Padme twice. First when he learned who Palpatine was and the second time, when he had to choose between letting Mace strike Palpatine down and interfering which caused Mace's death. Just as Luke needed to let go of Han and Leia right when he realized that his attachment was going to turn him into a Sith Lord. Luke let go of his friends and put himself ahead of his father, by not killing him.
  3. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    That is way oversimplifying things even with the films themselves. @ Obi-yoda
  4. Obi-yoda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2014
    star 2
    I agree. But it is the basic gist of things. However, bringing it to Corran Horn, Force-users are either moving towards the light or the dark. Even within the dark, movement towards the light can be made (Darth Vader's redemption), and even within the light, movement towards the dark can be made (Anakin's fall). Therefore, what I'm stating is that even though someone might be a claimant to a certain philosophy, their ACTUALITY of practice might be diametrically opposed. However, they still follow the credo.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  5. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I hate the terms "Light" and "Dark". I hate that Western society seems bent upon using those phrases to describe an individual's moral compass. I hate the fact that Western society seemed to deem anything "Light" as good and anything "Dark" as evil. I hate the uses of these words because they smack of racism to me.
    Jedi Merkurian and purplerain like this.
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yeah, it's not racism. Lucas clearly intended from the second draft of ANH onward, that the Force had two sides. A positive and a negative side. That's why he originally called it the Ashla and the Bogan of the Force. But he changed to the more simpler and easier to remember light and dark side of the Force. Though light side has never been used by the Jedi and the Sith. They just refer to it as the Force. Not to mention that it is the Eastern philosophies that have come up with Yin and Yang, which Lucas himself has also used in reference to the Force. The positive and negative energy or furies. Black and white. Good and evil. Light and dark. This belief is what Lucas used to develop the Force. The Western religions are used, but they're not the only ones. And they don't have the mutually exclusiveness on it.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Mar 21, 2014
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  9. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    Why the hell are you race baiting? (yet again)
  10. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    OK, settle down - but yes, let's not stir things up by dragging accusations of racism into this discussion. Totally inappropriate and irrelevant.
    Obi-yoda likes this.
  11. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    The light is in some ways defined by the dark and vice versa. The dark is therefore necessary and, in fact, vital. Fear may be a path to the dark side, but fear is also essential for survival. Anger may be dangerous in some circumstances, but it's natural and can be self destructive if suppressed. The dark is never destroyed. Rather, those who skew the force by allowing the dark to predominate, are. That's how I read it.
  12. only one kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 4

    I think this is stretching the terms beyond what they represent. Fear is not the same as awareness of danger, anger is not the same as awareness of a wrong being done, and a desire to put it right. The story is predicated on the basis of being thinking beings, acting beyond simply animal instinct - as any moral story must be. A wounded animal will generally lash out at anything approaching it - fear and anger,

    As examples. Seeing someone approaching you with a weapon, or with obvious aggressive intent would be rightfully seen as a threat - 'fear' in that instance is awareness of danger. Crossing the road because you perceive someone to be of a particular social denomination that makes you afraid, that you perceive as a threat without any immediate reason - that is fear.

    Further, it is the response to these emotions that is really the issue. So, for instance, seeing the individual who you are socially primed to fear - it would be wrong to attack said individual because the reason for your fear is essentially baseless - there is no threat, only an imagined one. Likewise, if you saw an older child striking a younger one you're first instinct may be to give the older child a 'clip around the ear'...but all that would do is re-enforce the power-play that is already in play (bigger=power) - so that your 'anger' in that situation must be directed toward an outcome that goes beyond a simple power trumps lesser power - violence, after all, begets violence.

    It is word play, deploying the words in a manner that does not suit the intended meaning.
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Sounds a lot like Vergere:

    "When Darth Vader and the Emperor held me prisoner," Luke said, "they kept urging me to surrender to my anger."

    "Your anger was a natural response to your captivity, and they wished to make use of it. They wished to fan your anger into a burning rage that would allow the darkness to enter. But any unreasoning passion would do. When anger becomes rage, fear becomes terror, love becomes obsession, self-esteem becomes vainglory, then a natural and useful emotion becomes an unreasoning compulsion and the darkness is."
  14. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    Jedi want freedom for others and oppression for themselves. Sith want oppression for others and freedom for themselves.
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  15. Snail_L0ver69 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Both the Jedi and Sith have faults in their views. I personally believe that it's best to view the way the Je'daii did back before the galactic republic. They were in-between these two views in the 'Grey area' not light or dark. They accepted their fear and anger but didn't rely on it for their power. I feel that they were able to achieve balance with the force. "In the light, there is a darkness and in the darkness, a light. It is the way with us all."
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  16. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    It's refreshing to see someone understands about greyness. :)
    purplerain likes this.
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Apr 3, 2014
  18. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Jedi Order didn't deny there was darkness within themselves. They tempered it by not giving in to it and by letting go of their personal selves. That's what the Shaman of the Whills taught Qui-gon, which is why he and only a few others in the film era, could achieve a corporal ghost form. The true path to the Force.
  19. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

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    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
  20. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    The Dark Side has no positive existence. It is the absence of the Light, the Force.

    While even though it derives and manipulates its power from the Force, such power is only temporary, until snuffed-out again by the unreplenishing darkness of selfish deeds.
    only one kenobi likes this.
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The Force has both light and dark sides. It is not merely "the light". See: the balance of the Force. Furthermore the Force extends throughout the galaxy and is never absent, so there cannot be "absence of the Force".
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Apr 5, 2014
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The darkness and the light are forever in balance when certain conditions are met. They fall out of balance due to certain circumstances, such as those in the PT era. The root cause of that imbalance is the Sith and the actions that Palpatine undertakes in the PT era, which pushes the Force out of balance. The dark side grows stronger due to the rise of the Sith, based on their plans. Due to this, the Jedi are unable to stop Palpatine and thus it takes one particular individual to stop him. It really is that simple.
  23. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    Actually our perspectives do not contradict each other, but perhaps due to my inability to articulate myself clearly, it was misunderstood. I agree that the Force also contains a dark side, but that it has a relative existence. An example may better illuminate my point.

    If one takes a candle inside a room without windows, the darkness that was just there before, vanishes.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    However, the dark side is called "dark" not because it is analogous to literal darkness in an optical sense, but because of its correlation with evil. It's also been called "the bad side" when the light side is called "the good side".
  25. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    Of course, no metaphor is perfect in all respects. ;) This example was an attempt to illustrate that the Cosmic Force is all pervading and within it are included the relative light and the dark side and that the latter appears to exist, though in reality, from an absolute view of the Force, it only is able to veil, twist, contort, manipulate or pervert the light side temporarily for its power.

    Granted, such examples don't necessarily work or seem compatible for everyone's view, which I fully accept.