Star Wars Problem Solvers #1 - Dealing with Light Side Space

Discussion in 'Games: TCG' started by RedneckJedi, Aug 26, 2004.

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  1. RedneckJedi Historian, JediOKC Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 2
    Those steeped in TCG knowledge and experiences have most likely had to deal with the "triumvirate" or ?big 3? of Light Side Space Domination... namely:
    Luke's X-wing
    Millennium Falcon
    Obi-Wan's Starfighter


    Given the nature of their versions' speed, power and defense, they're a nasty, but efficient combination that many a Dark Side player have to deal with. Princess Leia (G) is a natural choice for the Light Side, since she pays for herself after 2 turns while her pilot ability on the Falcon nets +3 build points per turn.

    So, there's the problem. Are you content to just let the Light Side dominate Space and optionally let Leia (G) gain free build points for the Light Side? Or how about when she's piloting the Millennium Falcon (G), and it's attacking your Characters?

    Have good answers already? Then share it now! Otherwise, read on for one of my latest Dark Side deck strategies focusing on this "problem".

    Star Wars Problem Solvers #1 Article
  2. TC517 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    Here is what I do when I know the other guy is packing tough Lights side space: Avoid it.

    I usually put a token space unit out first to draw him in, as Dark Side goes first. See how he plays his cards. Have them waste build points in space, thinking that you want to battle it out there, but really just avoid space and go with heavy ground and character. I would rather throw my weight around in the ground arena as a dark side player anyway. It always seems to come down to character when you play this way, but if you have an Orn Free Ta in your hand, you can really put a hurt on him with a stacked Vader.
  3. ClOnE_oF_vAdEr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2003
    star 3
    Yeah, LS space is a tough one, and when I play DS I usually lose the arena, but don't give up on it.

    Here are a few things I have found effective to combat LS space.

    Slave I : It is the DS Falcon if played right. Obviously when it comes toe-to-toe with the Falcon, the Falcon beats it out, but overall it is the best DS stackable there is in space. And the Acc. 2 version is just sick. (especially with DS control room in play...)

    Neutral Uniques: Cards like Ig-2000 and Virago have really given DS space the edge it needs. These cards, and so many other neutral space units that have recently been released, are very useful when it comes to DS space. Sure, upkeep is a pain, and the Virago hasn't made it into a deck of mine yet because of it's upkeep, however, these cards work great at giving the LS player a run for their money.

    Intercepting Tie Fighters: These little guys make my day. At around 2 build, these cheapo units work great at keeping your bigger units healthy. Work especially well with dreadnaughts and Take the initiative, if you have that much to put into space...

    No-No's: (IMO, of course...)
    The Death Star: "Yay! I can put spend butt-loads of build for a huge unit that can kill anything!.. Ahh Crap! It got killed before it could even attack..." That is the basic thought process of everyone I have known that has played any version of the Death Star. Sure, it could work. You could put it in a deck with tons of intercepting TIE Fighters and Dreadnaughts, but you know what... It's just too darned expensive, and you have to do a lot to keep it alive. It's just not worth it.

    Cool Ideas:
    Trade Fed decks kill space if they are done right. The little kamikaze droid starfighters are bad if they play for free, can be drawn like crazy, and can be used in conjunction with Take The Initiative. This coupled with the little Droid Bombers, the Elevator Units, and the Walking droid starfighters make Trade Fed decks the most annoying DS Space setup I have ever played against.

  4. darthwalls Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    I use the space arena for build point gain after set-up. Draw in your opponent by placing the tie's and other ships that return you build points when they are discarded. Use Departure Time to sack them and gain extra build to drop bigger or more units in ground and character.
  5. RedneckJedi Historian, JediOKC Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 2
    Now you see, that's where I run into a problem. I don't want to just "throw away" Dark Side Space. Sure, they can be converted to build points to shore up other arenas, but then that darn Falcon is sitting there, as I first mentioned, either attacking my Characters or protecting their Characters, with the option of Leia (G) parked on it gaining my opponent +3 build points per turn.*

    More often than not, Light Side decks tend to run Luke's X-wing and the Falcon with Starfighter support... typically Jedi Starfighters and X-wing Escorts. While the Evade most of these units have is nice, it's also costly in the long run. Keep pounding on Luke's X-wing with a number of smaller 2-3 power units, and suddenly the Light Side is left with a tough decision on how much Force to save for Battle cards and other Force activated abilities in the remaining arenas. A good mix of mostly small, cheap units, with some 5-6 power heavier units can really challenge the typical Light Side Space strategy. The Neutral Space units that Clone of Vader mentioned help fill that "heavier" role nicely. The inclusion of the Dark Side's Death Star Control Room Location that CoV also mentioned makes the Light Side have to step back and think about challenging Space, or devoting build points to replace the Location.

    Another good method for the Dark Side to use is "pick the defender". Trade Federation based and Piett (C) based decks can really foul Space for the Light Side by giving units a no-cost Intercept ability. You can have a weak Light Side unit attack a beefy unit, and then you can conversely have a powerful Light Side unit go after a cheap "throw away" unit. If you can get Retaliate into the "Intercept mix," then that's a whole lot of damage thrown the Light Side's way. The plentitude of Dark Side Battle cards that move damage around only makes for more headaches for your Light Side opponent.

    * Just for you statistical folks, it takes 3 turns for Leia (G) to pay for herself. First there's her deploy/move to the Falcon, then she gains 3 build the following turn, then 3 more build the next./>
  6. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    well here's my little space strategy when it comes to killing those (yes i'm very familiar with luke's x-wing and the infamous falcon) pesky light side staple cards. my tactic is the old school "quick strike", where i have a ton of little guys with a ton of speed (TIE Fighters). that way they all have 60 speed and get to go first in order to disable the light side's offense for that turn. i know what you're thinking right now though. you're thinking, "well those TIEs don't do anything to units with shields and evade". well you're definitely wrong on that one. i have 4 copies of the massive tank Executor (A), which gives all my other imperial units +2 power. that means that the average 2 power TIE just got boosted to 4 power (wow). and my deck runs all 2 build point TIEs, so that means i can put in 3 or 4 during setup. so basically i wipe out the annoying starfighters with my TIEs, then i rid myself of the falcon with Executor's 10 power. and just to let you know, this strategy HAS ALWAYS WON THE SPACE ARENA. it hasn't lost once, guaranteed. if you want a little more excitement though, just add 2 Vader (H)s to your deck and those little flies are now tanks. and even if they prevent all the damage done, you have just wasted a lot of force for only 2 build points. it's a win-win situation. try it... let me know how it works for you.
  7. ClOnE_oF_vAdEr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2003
    star 3
    I have seen this strategy, but I don't like it for several reasons:

    1)You can spend a bit more build and get a lot nicer stuff in DS space. IG-2000 will stay around a lot longer, and do quite a bit more damage, than TIE's will.

    2)Executor is a lot of build for something that surely won't last for more than two turns.

    3)This takes a lot of units to become effective. I usually don't have that much to play with in my DS decks unless I want to be running 70+ cards...

    Still, if it works for you...
  8. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    well you need to test this strategy before you criticize it. you see the reason for all the 60 speed TIEs is to eliminate all the opposing offense leaving no units to attack Executor (A). and if your opponent is stupid enough to attack Executor (A) with all his big guns, then he'll be no match against the swarm of TIEs that will eventually overwhelm him. and i tried for a while using neutral ships for DS space, but i just missed my Executor since it helped my ground always win. like i said, seeing is believing.
  9. ClOnE_oF_vAdEr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2003
    star 3
    Like I said, if it works for you...

    But I have tried it, and it works only tier 2 decks, but a real tier 1 just takes it down. In my experience, at least...
  10. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
  11. ClOnE_oF_vAdEr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2003
    star 3
    That is just a reference to the quality of the decks. A tier 1 deck would be a deck that would see play at the qulaifiers and GenCon. Tier 1 decks are usually very effecient and tweaked out. Tier 2 decks are more common, most casual players usually play what would be a tier 2 deck. It has stuff that works real well together, but generally no big combos or anything real 'tech'y
    Tier 3 decks would be like your starters and stuff...
  12. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    well i've got a tier 1 deck up my sleeve which happens to be a Han's Promise/Mos Eisley engine. its almost undefeatable, but not quite. it can beat most any darkside deck that i can think of. what would you say is the best dark tier 1 strategy for deckbuilding?
  13. ClOnE_oF_vAdEr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2003
    star 3
    There is no definite 'best', especially with the new set coming out. From the looks of it, hidden cost will be intersting, and creature decks will be coming back. I haven't seen the new leia yet, but that's not DS anyway. Just wait till the new set comes out, and then build many many many many decks and keep testing them until you find one that goes off the way you want it to most of the time.
  14. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
  15. Grand Admiral Strife RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2001
    star 5
    if the hidden cost mechanic applies to all cards regardless of release, i.e., Death Stars, Superdestroyers, and the like, you may see more megacards coming into play in round 2 or 3 and wiping out the opponent.
  16. ClOnE_oF_vAdEr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2003
    star 3
    ???? I'm confused... Not everything has hidden cost. Just like not everything has accuracy. So it's not retroactive. So that wouldn't work.
  17. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    well Hidden Cost is just a keyword ability like Armor, so that doesn't mean that every unit gets the ability.
  18. masterdarthsidious Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Yeah, Hidden Cost doesn't work for cards that have come out before ROTJ, unless they make a card that temporarily gives a unit in your build zone Hidden Cost, I don't think they will though...

    But back to the subject. I'd say Light Side Space is *almost* undefeatable at this point in time (if they use the right cards), yet it probably can be beat... maybe if you had a Force drain deck it could kill their Force so they couldn't Evade or use Strange Lodgings or Pilot's Dodge since they wouldn't have enough Force :) and then they would be vulnerable. If there was a new Darkside Space that said its damage couldn't be prevented, that would be VERY welcome for Darkside decks!!!

  19. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    actually with the right strategy, lightside space can definitely be beat. you speak too much bogus...period.
  20. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    i've beaten lightside space many a time...you're wrong on this one. it CAN be beaten. you speak too much bogus pal.
  21. tangojango Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    sorry, i put a double thing there.
  22. ClOnE_oF_vAdEr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2003
    star 3
    He didn't say it couldn't be beaten, but the fact is that if you are playing against a real deck: one put together by the serious hardcore players out there, LS space is usually superior. It can be beaten, but it's definitely tough...
  23. DimensioHatross Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2004
    That article has alot of great ideas for tackling them RJ.

    Personally, I run Imperial II/Dreadnaught/Tat Hanger, with Sidious D and Nexu tightening things up for the light side in character. I generally run cheap, high build to damage ratio units like, Droid SF DFS-1VR, and as much Critical Hit units as I can muster, to throw as much damage as possible at the hopefully forceless units. Tyranus's Speeder(B) is a cheap play in ground, and can get you any Geonosian starfighter you want. For missions I just run staple Capture Obi-Wans(sometimes might add Maul and Maul's strat depending how much force Light Side generates) and Deflector's Activated to keep overloaders alive and at least offer some kind of protection to the capital ships.

    Once the ball gets rolling in space, it's usually tough for the light side to comeback, however, a slow start(no Imp II or Dreadnaught)pretty much means Light Side can auto win.
  24. veauxx Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2004
    I have a Lando C/Piett C deck that I'll probably be bringing back when ROTJ is released, in space I basically use asteroids, vader's Tie fighter, IG-2000 and star destoyers(yinchorri fighters work as well). The intercept and retaliate is great but what I do to really hit LS hard is dark sacrifice a big asteroid giving IG-2000 a heavy punch then play vader's fury, he will then attack each LS unit once and should be able to pretty much clear the arena. Its very force intensive but effective in decks that don't depend on a whole lot of force. Oh, giving it overkill really makes it that much more powerful but a combo involving two battle cards is hard enough with disrupt ruining the game.
  25. masterdarthsidious Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2004
    I run the same kind of strategy, a Vader/Piett (C) with Star Destroyers in the Space arena. I also include Executor (A) and Vader (H) to give my units huge power boosts. I have TIE Fighter OS-72-8 and DS-61-9 also, with Vader's Imperial Shuttle (A) to pull Vaders out of my deck. The only thing that kills the Executor/Vader (H) combo is a Jedi Knight's Survival. There goes your powerful unit.
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