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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books Star Wars Propaganda: A History of Persuasive Art in the Galaxy

Discussion in 'Literature' started by GrandAdmiralJello , Jan 13, 2016.

  1. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Short entry for Coruscant on pg 29 in the planet list. Two-page spread on pgs 34-35. Buildings identified are Senate, Jedi Temple, Dex's Diner. A whole lot more are pictured. Events referred to are from the prequels (especially AOTC and ROTS) and Clone Wars (zillo beast).

    Also a note for Rogue One - there's a two page spread of Jedha on pgs 40-41. Not sure what might be spoilers so I won't go any further. (I've been trying to avoid them other than the trailers. I don't have the Catalyst book yet.)
     
  2. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Retired Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 15, 2014
    Is there a mention of an artist with the last name Kast in the book LAJ_FETT? I heard a rumour there was but I don't have the book yet to verify.
     
  3. Bly

    Bly Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2005
    There was. I don't have the book on-hand to confirm details but IIRC she was KIA towards the end of the Clone Wars.
     
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  4. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Retired Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 15, 2014
    [spoilers] Well, if you have time could you (or anyone else) post details or the page that mentions her or something please? I'd appreciate it very much.[/spoiler]
     
  5. Bly

    Bly Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2005
    I'm so sorry, I was a terrible person who read it in Barnes and Noble, I'm afraid I can't be of more help. :(
     
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  6. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Retired Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 15, 2014
    That's okay. :)
     
  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012

    Veraslayn Kast: (page 109)

    A follower of Pre Vizsla during the rise of the Shadow Collective in the Clone Wars, Kast was killed in the civil war that wracked her home planet. Much of her art was destroyed by Imperial supercommandos.


    Her art pic appeared previously in the EU in The Bounty Hunter Code - the very last illustrated page of the Death Watch Manifesto section: "Every resolute warrior brings the glorious future of Mandalore closer to reality".
     
  8. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Retired Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 15, 2014
    Thank you so much. :)
     
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  9. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
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  10. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    It's kind of funny because there's a LOT of people with the Kast name in the Mandalorians but Jodo Kast's whole thing is he wasn't actually a Mandalorian.
     
  11. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    Nice interview, and I'm glad to hear Pablo confirm my theory that some of the posters being "unofficial" was a way to explain elements that look good on a poster but don't necessarily make sense to put on an in-universe poster, like Vader and the Death Star. I thought that was a clever explanation.
     
  12. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I don't see why Vader wouldn't be on posters. He's an amazing force of power and an inspiration. I liked how Legends stated he was the Last Jedi Knight who had sacrificed his body to protect the Emperor from his fellow's treachery.
     
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  13. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    I guess you could argue about Old Canon's "Everyone knows about Vader" vs New Canon's "Vader wasn't well known to the public until after ANH". Either way though, I don't see Vader being very good poster fodder.

    For example, let's look at one poster: "He Can't Do It Alone"
    [​IMG]
    Vader is basically the Empire's Captain America on that poster. Yet this is the guy famous for killing subordinates, who drives fear into the hearts of even those on the same side. Combined with the fact that Vader didn't have an official rank in the Imperial military hierarchy, and it's a stretch to think of Vader as an inspiring figure that would encourage Imperial citizens to enlist. More like a terrifying figure, but even when you have fear-based propaganda you don't want it to be too over the top.
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    A good example of "unofficial, but allowed to stand" - possibly it was very early on?

    Another one, which was suppressed, with rumors that Vader hunted down and executed the artist personally, was this:

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Honestly, I think people overstate Vader's penchant for strangling people.

    I always thought he executed Ozzel because he actually screwed up and Needa out of sheer frustration thanks to his son.
     
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  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Strangling Motti in the middle of a meeting for top Imperial brass, and having to be called off by Tarkin, also springs to mind.
     
  17. Grand Admiral Paxis

    Grand Admiral Paxis Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Based solely on the movies, his tendency to strangle subordinate officers can be interpreted as either selective (killing people who deserve it) or indiscriminant. Motti was being blatantly insubordinate, Ozzel was completely incompetent, and Needa had failed to capture a light freighter he had cornered with a Star Destroyer, although he spared Piett for a similar failure and Motti at Tarkin's command. With that record, I can see why Vader has since been portrayed as something of a strangle-happy boss from Hell, but I can also see why a lot of people think that notion was stretched to ridiculous extremes in the EU. Personally, I always get a bit annoyed when Vader is shown to execute relatively competent subordinates for minor and/or completely understandable infractions. That said, I'm a big fan of the old Marvel comics where a cabal of Imperial officers plot to assassinate Vader just because he keeps murdering so many of them and they're terrified they'll be next, so I can live with it either way. :p
     
  18. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2016
    Judging by the fact that he force choked his WIFE, I think it's safe to say he's not too selective.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Grand Admiral Paxis

    Grand Admiral Paxis Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Apologies for the double post, but I just realised that I've had this book for a few weeks now and I've just realised that I never got around to posting my thoughts on it. As expected, I absolutely loved it. History has always been one of my favourite subjects, and art history was something that I accidentally fell into whilst studying the Italian Renaissance in high school, where patronage, propaganda, and history had a strong intersect. The whole notion of the book, which explores history through art (or propaganda), is wonderfully unique. Even in Legends, using art as a lens to explore history is a novel concept, but using it in Canon (where huge chunks of history have yet to be defined and they don't want to tie the hands of future authors) makes it doubly so. The book managed to be an interesting way of exploring the timeline, whilst also being a lot of fun in its own right and sprinkling in some fun EU lore.

    Although I enjoyed it a lot, I have two main gripes, although they're based more on what a Star Wars art history book could have done with that theme as opposed to what they completely stuffed up. Firstly, the primary focus was on posters, as opposed to other forms of art and/or propaganda. While that's understandable (and was expected based on the previews), there were a lot of fun possibilities this book could have explored that they closed off for themselves given that singular focus. My second problem is that almost all of the pieces (for the most part) were rather self-contained in their era. We got examples of art from each distinct era, but even though some of the themes or motifs they evoked were re-used and evolved over time, the actual pieces themselves were set in their era. For example, we see the artistic ideal of white plastoid armoured soldiers evolving from the Republic through the Empire to the First Order, but the Clone Wars pieces had their interpretation, the Imperial/Rebel pieces had theirs, and so on with the First Order, without anyone taking a piece from an earlier period and reinterpreting it creatively.

    Just to combine both of my grumbles into a single example, take Michelangelo's statue of David in Florence. Despite having existed for over 500 years, and being the exact same statue all that time, the Statue of David has always evoked the question, "Who is David and who is Goliath?" And the answer to that question has always changed based on who happens to hold it at the time. There have been countless examples of Florence facing an enemy (a Goliath), who then seizes the city, paints themselves as David, and flips the narrative to make their enemies appear the insurmountable foe while they pretend to be the underdog. Imagine if, say, in the wake of the Ruusan Reformations, Coruscant erected a truly awe-inspiring statue of Tarsus Valorum (I'm aware, especially after reading this wonderful book, that the Story Group or whomever has something in mind for the ~1,000BBY period that may not involve him. I simply use him as a hypothetical example since the period is as yet undefined). How would the legacy and the artistic ideal of the man who rebuilt the Republic change over time? Following his death, he would be an ideal to live up to. As the Republic sank into decline, he would be a popular figure to quote one or two lines from (both out of their historical and contemporary context) to justify the position of whoever is quoting him. In the lead-up to the Clone Wars, Palpatine might portray himself (or be outwardly perceived) as the new Tarsus Valorum, someone who will wade through the mire to revitalise and give new life to the Republic. Who would he be under the Empire? I don't know. Maybe someone Palpatine evokes in the early years only to be someone he gradually distances himself from or someone he outright ignores from the get-go. Either way, Mothma portrays herself (or is portrayed as) the real new Valorum, who wants to restore the Republic. Maybe the statue gets toppled under the Empire, only for someone to save its remains and restore it (as David got its arms restored after it was knocked off during fighting in Florence) on Hosnian Prime or elsewhere? I would have loved to see both more exploration of different artworks and interconnectivity between eras in a similar vein. That said, based on what the book described itself as and what I expected it to be, it was a truly enjoyable read. It could have been better with a bit more vision, but I love it nonetheless. 8/10.
     
  20. Grand Admiral Paxis

    Grand Admiral Paxis Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I wasn't, (and I don't think you were accusing me of doing so, to be fair), but just in case: apologising for or brushing-under-the-rug the fact that he psychopathically strangled his wife and tried to excuse it by saying that he thought she totally survived. I'm not okay with that, nor do I pretend to be. My argument (which I said could be interpreted either way based solely on the movies) was focused entirely on the OT. The Marvel issues I cited were published between the release of ESB and ROTJ, which were both before I was born. So again, the runaway, strangle-happy douche version of Vader predates him being a mentally-abusive, strangle-happy douche of a husband/emo teenager. And honestly, I'm happy to debate him on his full historical context (I may actually agree with you if we do so, truth be told). But I do feel the need to point out that I was describing him in a very specific context and not just whitewashing inconvenient facts that were even more inconveniently presented to me in a big-screen cinema format. :p
     
  21. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 25, 2002
    I got this awhile back but only got around to looking at it today. I love it - especially the 'Remember Alderaan' poster. Definitely recommend it.
     
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  22. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 26, 2013
    Ehh... I'd imagine Tarsus wouldn't be favored by the Empire or the Militarists that predated it. He's the guy that disarmed the Republic. The whole line of Valorums would be questionably viewed, since Tarsus disarmed the Republic and his descendant Finis failed to do anything about the Republic's issues, leading to the election of a Sith Lord. If anything, Valorum would be thoroughly hated even by the Rebellion since he drove the Republic towards dictatorship because of his disarmament policies. I guess the only ones that would support him would be the bleeding hearts Mothmaist faction.
     
  23. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    Glad to hear in that interview that Palo Jemabie definitively is Palo from AOTC. Not that is wasn't blindingly clear but hopefully someone at Wookieepedia will take note.

    I think the art process for this book is kind of interesting - by Pablo's account they hired people to do art for the book, but also repurposed old EU stuff as well as made deals with fan artists.

    Still think it's crazy that a year on since it was first mentioned, there is still conflicting stuff on the Battle of Jakku and whether it happened before, during, or after the peace conference.
     
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  24. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Maybe it'll end up being a Battle of New Orleans type thing; the treaty is signed but the message didn't get there in time.
     
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  25. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 29, 2012
    If it were just up to me, it would have been done a long time ago. But now we have an official confirmation, we'll be able to do it! :)