A/V STAR WARS REBELS (show's over, spoilers allowed)

How is the Empire not going to be outnumbering the Rebels then? I'd be inclined to say yes, they will be.

I'm not seeing the difference, as of now, between the Peacekeepers failing to recapture Moya, despite getting close on a few occasions and Jaffa failing to capture/kill SG-1. If I were to adopt a pro-villains viewpoint I'd be inclined to go: Why aren't these people dead? It would have been very easy, for instance, for Apophis to glass Earth in season 1 of Stargate. Maybe, when a few eps are out, I've no idea how it'll be available in the UK, the picture will change but all I'm getting from you is:

Characters surviving / escaping = bad

I'm not seeing anything else, nor how the older shows are immune to the charge, could be I've misread or maybe not.

Given how ANH later shows stormtroopers, it starts off with a rebel massacre yes, but later? They can't kill 3-4 people plus 2 droids - how is what Rebels may do worse than that?

Between this and the Ep 7 thread, there's a massive amount of doom-mongering on that I find quite baffling - especially as we know so little about them.

 

I'm not sure how you're getting any of that out of my posts.
Of course the Empire will be outnumbering the Rebels - just as the Alliance, PKs, Jaffas etc outnumbered their adversaries. When did I say otherwise?
I'm saying in many good shows the heroes were able to survive / escape without the villains being made to seem unthreatening or incompetent. Rebels (based on the extensive previews we've gotten) doesn't seem to achieve this, or worse, seems to intentionally use an enemy as effective and iconic as Stormtroopers in the role of comic relief in ways that clash with the established narrative.
It's not strictly in what happens in the story, it's in how the story is told. As for the OT, our heroes spend most of it hiding and running from Stormtroopers, frightened for their lives. No matter how cocky they get, they don't stop treating enemy soldiers as real threats to their lives (even if Han attempts to use humor to hide his fear), so we as the audience feel the tension. StrikerKOJ already went over this very well.

 

I still think carpet-bombing the show to the extant you're both doing, based on what info and previews there have been, perhaps 10-15 minutes of snippets, is premature. Season 1 is going to be about 8 hours? Across 16 episodes? Space enough to do a fair bit.

Plus, do you really think Isaacs won't render the Inquisitor as a superbly scary and effective villain?

Or to put it another way: When did we all start going round looking for reasons to loathe things in advance? I get that where the likes of the Denningverse is concerned, but does this new venture really deserve the level of out-right hostilty and suspicion that that earnt?

EDIT: Will I be watching? Probably unlikely, especially if Sky snaps it up. I'm going to be interested in the reception it gets here and elsewhere and depending on that I may or may not buy the DVD next year.

 

Yeah, I see these previews as quick, light fluff.

Plus, people don't necessarily know that it's not a deliberate element of the plot; there could be a shift at some point when someone's recklessness causes a tragedy that makes them take their enemies more seriously. It's kinda like how, in spite of the fanboy uproar, Zack Snyder is now saying that part of the plot of the new dumb DC movie will be Batman chewing Superman out for his reckless behavior in Metropolis. Now, in the case of those movies, do I think this was always the plan? No, I think it's an after-the-fact make-em-up... but the point stands that it could be deliberate in this case, because we've seen all of 10 minutes so far, most of it specifically created as advertising.

There's a rabbit hole we go down, where we look at snippets of something and are trying to extract FAR too much conversational value from it. We know we're all being theoretical, saying, "IF the show is like this, I will/won't enjoy it," and we all pretend that we aren't actually forming judgments... but the amount of people who are actually wise enough to examine something offhandedly, make a theoretical judgment, and then not allow that theoretical judgment to billow and creep into their future judgments is... like... 0.1%.

 

There is another explanation. In the Empire they all wear the same armour and fly the same Tie Fighters. The Rookies and the Elite troops will all look the same.

On the other hand, I think in fiction they seem to prefer giving uniform fighting abilities to the same looking troops so I could be wrong. A stromtrooper is nothing but a stormtrooper.

 

Eh, villain effectiveness and that of their minions is determined by Power of the Plot. Pretty much the way it's always been but this time seems to be a much bigger problem.

 

I'm a fan of Isaacs, and I think he'll do a great job even if I don't like the character concept. That's tangential to the specific point we've been discussing about Stormtroopers.
I'm hardly looking for reasons to loathe things. I was overjoyed with the original news of a live-action show. I was still very optimistic when I heard post-buyout that it was going to be animation - I didn't like most of TCW, but the animation in later seasons was superb. Since then, they've been handing me reasons to dislike (I don't think I've said anything to suggest loathing) it on a silver platter. I've made a point of calling out things I do like... but they're proving to be a bit thin on the ground where I'm standing.
Still giving it a chance, and I'm certainly not trying to ruin it for anyone to whom it appeals, but I find myself disagreeing with many choices that have been made by the team in charge. Specifically in this case, the way Stormtroopers are being portrayed.
I assure you, if I was negative and ill-tempered enough to "carpet-bomb" the show rather than drop in to offer my take on a specific subject of discussion, I would've come with a list.

I'm really tired of the "rushing to judgement" strawman, so I'll just say this: I have a tentative opinion based on what they've shown us, just like you do, even if they aren't the same opinion. If you can't respect that or respond to the actual points I'm putting out, then please do inform me when you've decided I have the right to an opinion, and I assure you I still won't care. Or are you going to remind everyone who talks about how awesome the show looks that they're being premature, too?
Crabby, I know; but you've repeatedly addressed a strawman of my perceived positions and arguments rather than what's been in my posts - I'm not going to get drawn into an argument and bring this thread down with us, and I'm not going to let the last word be a bizarre caricature of me as a negative nancy.
Can we agree to disagree?

 

So, recently I realized who Ezra, from what we've seen so far (his attitude more specifically). Reminded me of. One Mr. Jedi Prince Ken Palpatine.

 

However well-intentioned our posts - I don't think either of us wants a bad discussion, but yeah, I'd agree it isn't working A, so yeah, we'll have to agree to differ.

I do get the sense had we been talking this over in a pub, rather than text, we'd likely have had it nailed by now.

(I'm still not convinced we're really disagreeing about all that much though save an optimist / pessimist split.)

 

great-grandson of Cosinga

 

I don't know about "loathing things in advance", but I think a lot of the concern about whether the Imperials will be presented as incompetent (which I do think is kind of an overreaction) comes from the fact that our best benchmark to judge this show by is TCW - and that did frequently present the Separatists as humorously incompetent.

 

Oho? Now that's an interesting angle - could well be part of this I suppose.

 

This is going to be the same as the recent clone wars series horrible repcons, the side character will be better then the main characters andwill have better character development and add terrible things to the Mythos of Star Wars
While i am entertained by the ascetic of the Inquisitor, his lightsaber offer little strategic value other then shock value which kills a lot for me. other then him I don't find any other character interesting....and **** that stupid little sling shot

 

But there's nothing for it to retcon.

 

the Dark Woman, A'sharad Hett, Jerec , Kyle Katarn, and the countless other characters in the era....

 

They're already gone, though. That's the point Kablob was making.

 

I find it curious to view the protagonists of Rebels as "side characters. "

Also the Dark Woman was a Sith infiltrator anyway.

 

So what is it now? Yoda and the Dark Woman? Might as well add Obi-Wan, Ki Adi Mundi, and A'Sharaad Hett. Also you might as well add some other council members. Who knows the entire order could have secretly been Sith?

 

Hett was a Sith Lord. I blame An'ya Kuro.

 

I'm saying even before he met her. Ki Adi Mundi trained Hett and before Hett was transferred to An'ya he attacked Sing in anger -- clearly a Dark Side act. Furthermore, I'd like to point out that Ki Adi Mundi was An'ya's friend. So obviously all three were Sith.

 

Clearly, Palpatine's takeover wasn't about destroying the Jedi. It was just another Sith power struggle.

 

I never called the protagonist of rebels side characters I said that the side characters in STCW were better then the main characters. All the characters i listed are alive during the period that Rebels will take place. Hett Sith or not he was alive. And where is the proof that The Dark Woman was a sith?

 

Technically, no those characters are no longer in the picture - new continuity and all.....

Now, if Rebels were set in the Legends-verse, then they would be, but it's not.

 

I don't know what you are talking about (I deny this blasphemy talk)

 

Denying is only the first stage. Soon you will be sarcastic.