Discussion in 'Literature' started by JoinTheSchwarz, May 20, 2013.
Taking over a person's mind and forcing them to kill their comrades and then commit suicide.
Apparently Pablo has expressed dislike for the "grey Jedi" Legends concept. Not clear if that means "going grey forces you to forfeit your Jedi status" though.
One dark deed does not turn a Jedi evil.
Note that Ezra never used that ability again. What he did is comparable to Luke choking Jabba's guards. A questionable act, but not one that sent him straight to the Dark Side.
It may cause them to "stop being Jedi" though - putting them on the same level as Ahsoka "I am no Jedi" Tano.
I'm not a big fan of the idea - but "no such thing as grey Jedi- only Jedi and nonJedi" comes up a lot in the movie forums at least.
Summoning Mama Fyrnock also counts - but that was very early in his training.
Making that Trandoshan pilot trip over his lightsaber hilt and fall in an incinerator (followed by grinning gleefully afterwards) is another possible example.
I see where you're coming from but I don't think that works. Ahsoka made a conscious decision to leave the Jedi Order. She walked away and never came back. That's why she can declare to Vader that she is no Jedi. She didn't agree with their ways and left their Order. I've made the point elsewhere that she never gives up most of what they taught her, but the important point is that Ahsoka doesn't call herself a Jedi. She doesn't consider herself one.
Ezra still calls himself a Jedi. He remains the apprentice of a Jedi Knight. Unless that changes, he's still a Jedi Padawan as acknowledged by Yoda.
Yup. The story of Star Wars consists of a Jedi purge and Luke being the last of the Jedi.
If Ezra survives through the OT, and trains with Luke...then does Kylo Ren kill him? Or does he survive then, too, just because people don't want him to die?
...I just realized we're going to have to go through this song and dance whenever we get around to learning about Luke's temple and I feel exhausted already.
Basically, I feel the destruction of the Jedi completely is an overused concept that should never be taken literally and if it is taken literally, the writers are lazy beyond all measure.
The "Last of the Jedi" does not need to be literal.
Any more than "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father."
It certainly becomes a reoccurring issue with using Force Weilders in Star Wars stories if they all have expiration dates.
Kanan and Ezra should've never been in the show to begin with but the ship has sailed on that one. The title, Star Wars Rebels, clearly refers to the Ghost crew and not the Rebellion as such, like we thought.
But that said -- they've written themselves into difficult places. It's not just that they exist, and that they're not in the OT. It's the scenes involving all the people who see them doing Jedi things.
Like. You know.
This show is all about the long game so I hope they'll surprise us. But I think they've given themselves a problem.
Missa ab iPhona mea est.
Rebels hasn't been perfect (and admittedly has involved Jedi more into the Rebellion than I initially preferred), but it is still solid, especially starting in season 2. Besides, the series has introduced me to one of my top Star Wars characters of all time, General Hera Syndulla.
Also- poor Phoenix Squadron. Good Lord, that name is cursed. Once again, the entire squadron is lost. They are quite literally phoenixes rising from the ashes all the time!
I like how Thrawn respects Hera as an adversary. And how Hera outwitted Thrawn.
Missa ab iPhona mea est.
They were actually Green Squadron this time, ANOTHER seemingly snake-bitten name that is cursed with both never actually being on camera AND getting totally annihilated every time they go out.
To be fair, Thrawn DID tell Skerris to break off pursuit.
Should we all be freaking out more about seeing an X-Wing fire with the S-foils closed. I mean, that shouldn't be surprising, but we've never seen it before and none of the old games would let us do it.
Of course, I would have preferred that she popped her S-foils open as she made that hard turn up, to show the advantage in maneuverability the S-foils provide.
Thrawn outwitted Hera, not the other way around.
So what's the explanation for Kanan and Ezra never interacting with Luke? Wouldn't Mon Mothma want to get them all together? Why is she so excited about Bail Organa sending for Obi-Wan during Rogue One?
I just feel like there needs to be a lot of mental gymnastics to explain why they would survive, and that leads to a poor story.
ETA: Lots of people argued that Padme needed to die because she wasn't in the OT. Now that was a situation where a character's death could have been avoided and probably would have created a better story.
No. Thrawn had a fallback, but he got played.
If his idea of a plan is a blown up Star Destroyer in exchange for a few X-wings he could've otherwise taken, he's a profligate fool.
Missa ab iPhona mea est.
I think "Last of the Jedi" should be taken literally.
Note, this doesn't mean that once Yoda is dead, Luke is the last one left to have received Jedi training.
We all know Anakin is still alive after all. Ezra could also be alive and maybe their is another survivor from the order also left standing.
But what all of them not named Luke should share in common.....they arn't jedi anymore, either falling to the darkside or gave up jedihood.
So unless Kanan gives up being a Jedi (very unlike his character), the grimp reaper needs to pay him a visit. Same for Ezra unless he stops being a jedi. If Ezra does give up Jedihood, he should still abandon the Rebellion. Also be preferable if he loses his 2nd lightsaber. It just creates unwanted attention in the OT world.
I wish Filoni and co never had Yoda be introduced to those two (nor have Ezra encounter Obiwan).
In fact I wish the concept of a show about jedi survivors beginning only a few years pre OT never happened. Instead of it being about the growing Rebellion we see in the OT, have it be about the early resistance the Empire faced in its beginning. From Jedi survivors to Ex-Separatists, etc. That way we get a "kanan" (a young adult instead of a kid) training a boy in the ways of the force while the Jedi are being hunted down. You still have the Inquistors come into play and their are more jedi survivors to use. With their still being more then 10yrs before the OT, it gives the writers more freedom on what should happen to this jedi duo.
See my edit above. That Star Destroyer was on the improbably weak shields and construction of seemingly ever Imperial vessel besides the Devastator Skerris, not Thrawn.
I'm confused, why can't they interact?
Luke could learn everything Kanan could teach him and then Yoda can complete his training since Luke has like 30 times their potential.
Nope, despite the green markings, Hera called them "Phoenix Squadron" in the episode. Re-watch, or check out the new Databank entries on SW.com.
From what I had watched on the that awful episode, was that Thrawn was gonna attempt to either capture or destroy Hera since he anticipated Hera's maneuver(she wanted the Star Destroyers to fire on her to hit the Tie Defender for her), but Vult Skerris disobeyed Thrawn's orders to disengage since he had and wanted the to take the kill shot to finally end Hera. SO Thrawn became angry at this disobedience(and apparently is smitten by Hera) then ordered his own command to fire on both Hera and Serris .
Hera of course managed to doge all the AA cannon fire and it only hits Serris, Thrawn of course is not surprised and thus he willing killed Serris while obviously suspected(being told the plot by the director) that Hera would emerge unscathed. Hera is plot protected, as are the heroes, ever notice how many times the Rebels are caught or near the end but the Empire(whether generic nameless/ faceless grunt Stormtroopers to ranking and file officers or specialized guest assassins) always wants them to "freeze" and or be captured in some celebrate or lame manner that never ever works, or if it does(briefly), they somehow of course escape.
Ah yes, the Thrawn/Hera dynamic, A Scandal in Rylothemia.
Poor Skerris caught the Konstantine bug. Looked like one of the few competent B list villains up to that point too. Probably why Thrawn likes to use Rukh so much, hes apparently the only imperial aligned being in the galaxy that can take simple orders without screwing them up beyond all recognition.
Anyways, Thrawn pretty much played himself. He figured out Heras plan, but decided to take out both the X-wing and the Defenders shields out anyways because he was upset with the insubordination.
Sheer dumb luck is not outwitting in my book. And Hera did end up with her entire squadron gone. She may have punched an unlikely hole into the defense through the Defender / cruiser / Star Destroyer domino (seriously??), but the backup TIE response was rock solid.
I still have an issue with why they actually got through the main blockade in the first place. Yes, Hera is GOOD (and I like how Thrawn gives her credit a lot in this season), but dear me are those Star Destroyers toothless. In the OT they were a menace. In Rebels they increasingly appear to be there to be blown up. Which never seems to give the Imperials much grief, considering how many resources & manpower are invested in one.
Got to look at it a bit more tongue-in-cheek I guess.
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Frankly it has almost gone from "worthy adversary" to "fanboy"
Dont' forget Mon. Her line to Bail in Rogue One loses a lot of impact when you take Kanan and Ezra into account.
"We will need every advantage...."
"Your friend? The Jedi? We already have two Jedi here at Base One and they haven't helped us win the war yet. What good will one more Jedi do us?"