A/V STAR WARS REBELS (show's over, spoilers allowed)

Everyone seemed to agree that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered Luke's father before 1980. In both circumstances, we have more context now:

"Twilight of the Apprentice" - Ahsoka distracts Vader allowing Kanan and Ezra to escape.

"A World Between Worlds" - Alone against Vader, Ahsoka takes the floor out from under him.

"A World Between Worlds" - Ezra grabs Ahsoka at the last possible moment; it is unclear if Vader witnesses this, as he is busy falling through the floor at the time.

"A World Between Worlds" - Ahsoka returns to Malachor after a brief interlude with Darth Sidious and begins her trek into the ruins of the Sith Temple.

"Twilight of the Apprentice" - Ahsoka disappears into the dark, her destiny yet to be written.

That final shot was open to greater interpretation when it was in isolation. But it's not anymore.

 

I know, just coming off of the Clara business from Dr. Who it felt out of place. In Legends there was no time travel to the past and the sole instance of it was a Droids comic that may not even have been canon to Legends depending on how one interprets Leland Chee's Marvel comic canon statement (marvel was canon only when referenced by a post Thrawn Trilogy work, and the only work that referenced the Droids time travel was a real world Abel Pena article).

They went back and forth on flow walking but in the end Lukes quote on its Wookieepedia page that you can't really go back in time seems to be the final word.

The Legends canon tiers were tedious, but it seems to be back with Galaxy of Heroes and putting in Traya etc.

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I have no idea how Abel's articles relate to the whole S-Canon/C-Canon/whatever-Canon business. If you think you've got enough of a loophole to nudge that story out of Legends continuity, go for it.

Semi-ironically, I think the only reason Abel referenced the story in the first place was to fix a massive continuity error in the original story. Threepio and Artoo are thrown 100 years into the future, yet somehow still encounter Wicket, Chirpa, and other familiar Ewoks from the cartoon and comic. This could only happen if the Droids comic occurred 100 years in the past...except that a previous issue of that series (by the same writer) included characters from the Droids cartoon, which unambiguously took place during the time of the Empire (not to mention the prequels blowing away the idea that Threepio and Artoo had adventures prior to TPM). Abel's retcon was to have the droids travelling "10 to 100" years back and forth through time, not the 100 referenced in the original story.

 

I don't really know how this is a reply to my post, but I'll bite.

There is no time travel in "The World Between Worlds". Not to the past or to the future. There is the threat of it, in Ezra's temptation and Sidious' manipulation, but it never happens, and whether or not it is even possible remains unknown. Ezra leaves Lothal through the temple door and goes to a place outside of time. The same place Qui-Gon Jinn talks to Yoda from in "Voices," likely. "I exist where there is no future or past." It is nowhere and at the same time everywhere; in terms we might find among mystics here on Earth, it is the nothing that comes before "In the beginning..." Ezra pulls Ahsoka into this place with him, but just because he is from her future, that doesn't mean anyone has time traveled, because there is no future in the World Between Worlds.

And you gotta let Galaxy of Heroes go, man. There is absolutely no reason why "canon" has anything to do with a game that is literally "Let's play with all of our toys." Enjoy it! Don't let "canon" suffocate it!

 

Galaxy of Heroes is straight-up non-canon, in the same vein as the FFG gaming material in that it freely accesses and mixes both canon and Legends material, but is itself non-canon. It's "acanonical," to steal Ender Sai's term for it.

 

And that's fine, but it's not clear to some people. My point was a lot of big deal was made in 2014 that everything is canon now (short of a label explicitly labeling as non-canon) --but it's not, and that's fine.

From http://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page :

Now, with an exciting future filled with new cinematic installments of Star Wars, all aspects of Star Wars storytelling moving forward will be connected. Under Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy’s direction, the company for the first time ever has formed a story group to oversee and coordinate all Star Wars creative development.

“We have an unprecedented slate of new Star Wars entertainment on the horizon,” said Kennedy. “We’re set to bring Star Wars back to the big screen, and continue the adventure through games, books, comics, and new formats that are just emerging. This future of interconnected storytelling will allow fans to explore this galaxy in deeper ways than ever before.”

Nothing in https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ea.game.starwarscapital_row says Galaxy of Heroes is non-canon either. I myself believed it was an in-universe game that people played, and thus Nihilus etc were based on existing in-universe characters.

I get that's how it is, it's ok! But that doesn't mean we can't point out the contradiction when we see it.

 

Good game

 

The key term is "storytelling", @sidv88 .

"all aspects of Star Wars storytelling moving forward will be connected."

Battlefront II had an identifable narrative to it. Galaxy of Heroes is an arena-esque fighting game without narrative.

EDIT: See also:

IGN: Does Galaxy of Heroes have a storyline? If so, how closely did you work with the Lucasfilm Story Group on it? Can I get an intro for some context?

EA: In our game, your adventure begins in a cantina. You aren’t set in any particular time because we wanted to fulfill the Star Wars fantasy where you can collect all your favorite characters from across the entire Star Wars universe. We worked very closely with the great folks at Lucasfilm throughout the development. They’ve been wonderful collaborators and you can see, hear, and feel the authenticity in the game as a result. Although “story” – in the traditional sense – is not the focus of the game, we enable people to role play various scenarios that make them feel powerful and smart with the choices they make. We enable players to collect all their favorite characters, fight with them in all the famous locations, and upgrade their units to build the most powerful collection and dominate through strategic choices.

The cantina has various holotables within which the combat takes place. As you progress in the game, you unlock more and more of these holotables and gain access to various types of challenges and activities. There are characters you encounter and interact with in the cantina (who are not part of the combat), and they’re there to help you understand how to play certain parts of the game.

EA answer with political mastery a question where the actual answer was "no, the game has no story."

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, as I just watched the final episodes and had no time to read the last dozen or so pages of this thread, but Palpatine showing his "kindly" face to Ezra instead of his ruined real one reminded me of him doing the same thing in that Holocron(the Telos Holocron, I think?) recording in The Essential Guide to the Force.

 

Oh, spot-on. There's no reason Sids shouldn't be able to pull those kinds of stunts ... if he wants. (Illusion should be a ridiculously easy trick for the reigning Sith Master of the time period to pull off.)

What I find intriguing is the implication that either Palpatine hadn't been making many public appearances for a while - because he rode the gravy train of public sympathy for being an alleged "victim of a Jedi assassination attempt" for years as an explanation for his kriffed-up appearance after ROTS - or that Ezra hadn't seen Empire Day broadcasts in which Palpatine would, I suspect, keep up the "scarred victim" routine.

Tbf, a Loth-rat street-kid probably wouldn't have given a ranat's backside about watching propaganda. Just seems odd to me that Palps would've gone the "kindly old grandfather" route (at least in his appearance) so close to ANH ...

 

Was that really how the old canon levels worked? I thought Marvel was S-canon, that is, it was considered part of continuity as long as it was not contradicted by higher canon like c-canon.

 

In regards to "time travel" and the whole TWBW thing, I don't think there was any time travel. I love me some time travel, but we don't necessarily fully understand how TWBW and really the Force itself works. It's the present, past, and future all rolled into one...somehow. Ezra saving Ashoka was something that always happened, if Ezra did anything else it might of been a different story entirely but he didn't.

 

I agree that Ezra always saved Ahsoka, but that's still time travel. It's just specifically The Novikov self-consistency principle that they are following.

 

It's not time travel if you are travelling to a space outside of time.

 

It is though, the WBW itself is not traveling, but it enables it. It's like the Tardis, sure the inside is able to be displaced in time, but that does not mean it's not time traveling.

 

How do you know it enables it, though? What if stepping through the wrong portal just tears your soul to shreds? We don't know because nobody time traveled.

 

Ashoka did, even if it was only technically a few minutes she still time traveled from the time the temple started collapsing, to after the temple had allready collapsed.

 

If I am walk from my kitchen to my living room then back again, am I time traveling just because time passed in the kitchen while I was not in it? Sure, "technically," but come on.

 

It's not semantics dude. If you were to go from your kitchen then your living room and then back to your kitchen at a point 15 minutes after you left, but without having been in the living room for those 15 min, then you tie traveled. Heck Ezra reached out into the past, even if you wanna argue he did not leave the WBW, he still reached his arm out into a specific point 3 years prior. If you were to stick your hand back into the kitchen at a point before you even owned that house, then you did indeed time travel. Just cause you are accessing it from a neutral point, does not make it any less time travel. Again the TARDIS is outside of time and space internally, and yet when one leaves it then goes back in then back to their time, even if they only aged 5 days, they still time traveled

 

I guess? I dunno, I've run out of words to explain why at this point, I just feel that calling the World Between Worlds "time travel" is incredibly reductive as to what's happening there.

 

Reductive from what though? That's literally the only thing we've seen this World Between Worlds do, aside from allow transport to other planets.

I'm going to quote novel author Brandon Sanderson's first law of magic: An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic.

We don't even know how the "magic" behind this World Between Worlds works. To say there's no need for a logical explanation (and thus an understanding on how magic works) because it's magic goes against this law, and feels more like deus ex machina than an actual magic principle with rules etc.

 

In cultures that believe in it, magic does come with its own set of rules and explanations. It's not just the go-to excuse for "things we don't understand". It's a way of describing how the world operates, like science or religion.

 

You can still see that in some Caribbean/African cultures.

 

That's true, I very much misspoke before. Let me re-speak? What makes you think that is the logical explanation?

I think it might have been on another thread where I said it, I don't remember now, but the concept of the World Between Worlds echoes backward through the entire story thus far. I am reminded of Qui-Gon in "Voices" ("I exist where there is no future or past."), of Mortis ("[This place is u]nlike any other, a conduit through which the entire force of the universe flows."), of visions as recent as the hall of mirrors beneath the sacred island of Ach-To, stretching all the way back to Luke vs. Vader-who-is-not-Vader in the cave on Dagobah (We've called it a vision for almost forty years, but is it? Luke brings his physical weapon into that physical space and engages in a physical struggle with it.). I know Filoni was quick to say "no I don't think this is connected to all of that" but it's all the Force! It has all been connected since the beginning. Saying "Oh it's like a TARDIS" feels dismissive of the greater spiritual ideas at play here.

 

I was speculating on logical explanations (Palpatine wants to create alternate timelines) because I guess I still haven't let it sink in the writers may not have a logical explanation. For instance, it's not even clear what Palpatine was trying to get Ezra to do in that business with the parents, if the temple power was already closed, the parents were already dead, we've only seen stable time loops so far etc.

We've gotten conflicting info on the importance of physical weapons. Yoda says they're not needed in ESB, but Kenobi says 'This weapon is your life!' to Anakin in AOTC after he lost his weapon in circumstances that were arguably not his fault (trying to arrest Zam Wessel after her murder attempt on Padme).