Saga Star Wars Ring Theory

I've read through your essay a second time, more carefully now, and I just wanted to echo what The_Phantom_Calamari said. This is really great work, and has gotten me excited for whenever I next find the time to watch the Saga all the way through!

I loved most everything about this beautifully clear, perspicacious, deeply thought-provoking, passionate and enthusiastic work, but I particularly enjoyed how you picked out details of corresponding or mirroring wipes, editing and camera directions. As well, the to-the-minute sensitivity to the corresponding films' "rhymes". The diagram of the quartered circle I thought was a brilliantly clear and simple summary of this baroque complexity you've illuminated.

If I may, I would just suggest one area where the essay might possibly be improved, if you ever consider publishing it. I am not an expert at all, but just reading it with an untrained eye, and based purely off my uneducated instincts, I thought the final section about Daoism could do with a little more in-depth research into the Eastern understanding of those concepts. It does somewhat come across a little bit like it's a 'Western' viewpoint appropriating an 'Oriental' idea and putting it in terms of a 'Western' frame of reference. I understand of course that you're writing for a largely Anglo-American audience, but this is just my $.02...I think if that bit was fleshed out a little more, this essay would be pretty much perfect

I also read through the comments that were left on your website, and was unsurprised (and in fact heartened) that some PT critics had read the essay and seen fit to comment that it was unconvincing or a waste of time. I'm glad that none of them appear to harbour the most extreme/vicious type of hatred (eg personal attacks on Lucas and the PT cast) -- I suppose those bashers wouldn't even have bothered reading. Anyway, if you don't mind me butting in, I just wanted to sound a note of encouragement -- that I think, as focused as your essay is on the formalistic structural devices of the films, those who remain emotionally unmoved or untouched by the prequels should not complain that your work has not convinced them to enjoy I-III. For what it's worth, I think your essay achieved what it seems to set out to do.

It definitely deserves to be read and discussed. For the reasons discussed elsewhere on this forum, though, I really fear it won't get near as much traction as it should. Entrenched positions/assumptions in the zeitgeist are very hard to get any sort of foothold on when trying to challenge them. There's also the fact that many people seem to feel offended by any cerebral approach that takes Star Wars seriously. Attempts to explain the PT and how it contributes to SW are often met with the scornful dismissal that "Star Wars is meant to be, and should be, simply a straightforward, good-vs-evil, adventure Bildungsroman, so all this talk of a complex, textured, multidimensional story is meaningless 'reaching' and a futile attempt to justify the obviously rubbish prequels". Of course, everyone's entitled to enjoy SW in the way they like best, but still, there just seems to be this resistance to the very voicing of any exposition of its complexities.

Best of luck getting the word out there!

 

Hi Mike,

I have to say that I was greatly illuminated by your article. Perhaps the best defense I have heard anyone give of Star Wars yet.

It's something that perhaps I always knew subconsciously but that until now, I hadn't really known.

Thanks and MTFBY

 

Thought this thread deserved a bump

MOC Yak Face: I hope this isn't considered to be inappropriate mini-modding , but I agree that this thread is better suited to the Saga forums since Mike's work [ http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/ ] deals with all six films. I think it might also get more views there (which I think it deserves!)

Also, just a friendly suggestion for MikeKlimo --perhaps adding a bit more to the title might also help it get additional views? (since "ring theory" by itself might not mean anything to some readers just scanning the various thread titles). If you like this suggestion, you could PM one of the Saga mods and I'm sure any of them would be happy to update it for you.

 

Aren't you banned Pensivia ?

Sounds sensible. Better not go pinching threads out of PT without running it by Bazinga'd , but yes, Saga seems like the logical place for this. Agree about the name change too. At present it sounds a bit like it might have something to do with Gollum!

 

You know, I've been thinking about all the A New Hope correspondences in Episode II, and I've come to realize that there are likewise a lot of Empire correspondences in Episode III. To wit:

• It's pretty clearly the darkest of the prequels, just as Empire is the darkest of the originals.
• The Invisible Hand plummets to Coruscant like a meteor, just as the probe droid plummets to Hoth like a meteor.
• On Mustafar, Anakin communes with his master via hologram in a scene that evokes the Emperor's introduction in Episode V.
• Near death, Anakin reaches out his hand to Obi-Wan on a lava planet, just as his son later will on an ice planet.
• Ki-Adi-Mundi is killed by clones that resemble snowtroopers.
• Anakin and Obi-Wan's final scene together as friends echoes Luke and Han's final scene together before they head off on their separate adventures.
• Anakin is transported to the surgical center on a slab that recalls Han Solo's journey through Cloud City while encased in carbonite. Ditto for Padme during her funeral procession.
• Yoda's escape after his duel with Sidious recalls Luke's escape after his duel with Vader on Cloud City.
• The medical droids from Episode V reappear in Episode III.
• A Jedi rides on a reptilian steed.
• When Mace Windu is standing over Palpatine in his office, the shot is framed the same as when Vader is standing over Luke on Cloud City.

So, the way I figure it, you can look at the saga like this:

Episode I - Prologue
Episode II - Anakin's Story: Part 1
Episode III - Anakin's Story: Part 2
Episode IV - Luke's Story: Part 1
Episode V - Luke's Story: Part 2
Episode VI - Epilogue

This may explain the apparent correspondences between Episodes II and IV and between Episodes III and V.

(Of course, Ring Structure still applies. This is just an added wrinkle.)

 

1 and 6?

Prophecy introduced. Prophecy fulfilled.
'Primitives' relied upon to assist in battle.
Rule of two introduced. Rule of two seen in action.
Prominence of Jabba the Hutt.

Just off the top of my head...

 

Really interesting. Excellent work.

 

I actually had a similar theory years back, seperate to the "ring" mirrors and "trilogy" (1/4, 2/5, 3/6) mirrors, and had noticed most of your 3/5 examples at one time or another.

I speculated that perhaps it goes:
- Ep1 / Ep3 - The lightest period for Anakin (hence the galaxy) in the PT vs the darkest period for Anakin (hence the galaxy) in the PT. 13 years apart. Anakin brings peace by accidentally destroying the droid-control ship vs Anakin bringing "peace" by slaughtering the Jedi and Seperatists in cold-blood.
- Ep2 / Ep4 - Anakin at 19 and Luke at 19, very different and contrasting paths. Anakin wearing black vs Luke wearing white. Eg, Anakin slaughters an entire Tusken village (Obi-Wan's guidance absent, Anakin starts on the path to becoming a Sith) vs Luke knocked out by Tuskens (Obi-Wan rescues him and Luke begins his Jedi training).
- Ep3 / Ep5 - As you said, the darkest point in each trilogy. Anakin falling to the darkside because of a premonition, Vader (perhaps masochistically) attempts to lure Luke to the darkside via a similar premontion.
- Ep4 / Ep 6 - Early movie on Tatooine. Luke an innocent farmboy vs Luke grown powerful and carrying the burden for the galaxy. Happy endings with the Empire's defeats.


However, I eventually came to conclusion that every episode in the saga has some links to every other episode, so the pattern might be a coincidence

 

Bazinga'd - Moving to Saga as suggested.

 

Haha yeah, I realized that too. But then again, there don't seem to be that many Episode V links in Episode I. And there are a lot of Episode VI links in Episode II, but IIRC they're pretty much all contained to the final section of the movie, which of course corresponds to the first section of Episode VI.

Ah well, it's fun to think about, anyway.

 

True. I wish we could hear the official word on some of it though.

Hmm Ep1 and Ep 5, good point... off the top of my head...


-
TPM
Yoda: "Our own council will we keep on who is to be trainedI"
ESB
Yoda: "My own council will I keep on who is to be trained!"

-
TPM
Mace: "He is too old."
ESB
Yoda: "He is too old. Yes, too old to begin the training!"

-
TPM
Obi-Wan: "I am ready to face the trials."
ESB
Luke: "I am ready! Ben, tell him I'm... *hits head*

-
TPM
Yoda: "How feel you?"
Anakin: "Cold sir."
Yoda: "Afraid are you?
Anakin: "No sir."
Yoda: "See through you we can."
ESB
Luke: "There's something not right here. I feel cold... death."
Yoda: "That place... strong with the darkside of the force it is. In you must go.
Luke: "What's in there?"
Yoda: "Only what you take with you."

-
TPM
Qui-Gon: "Don't centre on your anxieties Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs."
Obi-Wan: "But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future!"
Qui-Gon: "But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living force, young Padawan."
ESB
Yoda: "This one a long time have I watched. All his life as he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was! Hmph. What he was doing!"

-
Broken hyperdrive

-
Maul's probe-droids find the good guys on a desert planet / Vader's probe-droids find the good guy on an ice planet.

-
Almost eaten by underwater monsters / Narrowly fly out of monster's stomach.


Um... that's just from memory...

-
TPM
Protacol droid: "We are greatly honoured by your visit ambassadors..."
ESB
Vader: "We would be honoured if you would join us!"


I'm reaching now, you were probably right lol

 

I've just finished studying the epic ring theory and have to say it read brilliantly. It has changed my mind about George Lucas to a certain extent, enhancing my opinion on him as some kind of genial plot structuralist. I look forward to watching episodes 1 - 6 with the theories in place.

 

Thanks for coming here and posting your theory. I've always felt that there was some kind of symmetry to the SW films in how they connected together but never had a name or theory for it. It's late now so I'll have to reserve my thoughts on it tomorrow.

 

i've already thought about most of these things as well. there are obvious patterns. good work.

 

This is an excellent essay and something that many fans have noticed, giving rise to a few illuminating threads on these boards. While some of the mirroring might be accidental - we know that several key sequences in the films only came together in editing at the 11th hour - I think the principal holds true. GL actually had every frame of every SW movie tagged and dumped on an editing machine for RotS and he used that as reference to intentionally mirror shots. And this only skims the surface of the prequels! An important moment in SW scholarship and a body of evidence that is very hard to dismiss with a wave of the hand. Well done!

 

I do think it's interesting how both ESB and AOTC begin with cool colors and end with warm colors.

 

This is brilliant work. I'd love to see you use this to predict the broad outlines of Episodes VII - IX.

 

Mike Klimo Conerning your Ring Theory, a video has been made by Pablo Fernandez Eyre, a professional editor working on the movie trailers and TV commercials industry, called Star Wars Poetry. It simply amazing:

 

That's the video clip I had posted, but on a different thread. I think I had posted it on the wrong thread. But watching the clip reminded me of the ring theory.

 

I've upload this same video in my youtube channel so it can be available to more viewers:

But I should expect the haters to come and bash it. I guess that's why Pablo Fernandez Eyre chose Vimeo to upload it instead of Youtube.

 

Mike Klimo has now written an article for the official site:

http://www.starwars.com/news/parall...-wars-films-are-more-connected-than-you-think

This is the first in a series he is doing.

 

I just saw that! It's great that the official Star Wars web page talks about the Ring Theory.

 

Cool! I'm not surprised they let him write for the website, given starwars.com does seem to be quite pro-prequel. Can't wait for the next one!

 

YES! I saw that today.....love it!

I also think it says a lot that the OFFICIAL SITE is letting him write about the SW Ring Theory. LFL themselves is probably pleasantly surprised by the recent interest in and realization of SW Ring Theory. They are probably glad people are finally seeing the OS a little bit more as George Lucas WANTED it to be seen.

 

Prequel lovers are flipping a **** over this ring theory hype while the rest of are going "yeah, that's pretty obvious". Just because these prequels have some scenes, plot points, dialogue, cuts, shots, blah, blah, blah, that are reminiscent of the OT doesn't make them some grand work of story telling genius, it doesn't even mean it was intentional.

"Oh, neat. Anakin destroyed the trade federation ship just like Luke destroyed the Death Star. Brilliant. How do you do it? Oh, look, these films share the same shots and are vaguely reminiscent of each other.How did they ever pull this off? How fascinating, characters in the prequels are looking out into the distance, oh look, an awards ceremony in TPM just like at the end of ANH and people are yelling in the same fashion. How does one implement such effective story telling?"

This article makes it seem like George Lucas discovered some ancient by-gone mystical story telling technique. I can create a very large list of films the use the ring theory. Harry Potter, Quentin Tarantino films, even Robocop. When your looking for these kind of things, it's easy to find.

It's amazing how deep some people are willing to dig to find a nugget in a pile of crap.

Regardless, it's very nice to see so much time and effort go into these kind of things, even if i don't agree with it. The guy who wrote this article seems to be a saavy, well educated man.