STar Wars: Smuggler FBCG

Discussion in 'Games: CCG, TCG, and Boardgames' started by BigPoppaJabba, Mar 4, 2002.

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  1. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    Lately there has been a lot of bickering and, well, animosity her on the Card Game Boards. While the debate does have it?s reasons, I think the way it has been going is kind of defeating what TFN is all about: Star Wars fans coming together.

    So let?s focus on what we ALL have in common: our love of Star Wars and Card Games. To this end, I have come with an idea that we can all contribute: Let?s make our own card game: Star Wars: Smuggler FDCG (Fan Designed Card Game)

    I know that we all have something we can put in. Look at the dream cards that folks have been putting together. What about you rules experts or graphic designers! Lore buffs also have their place. In short, there is NO-ONE that can?t help out in some way.

    Anyone can post on this thread, but if you do, prepare to have ideas challenged, so be ready to back up your ideas. Of course, if someone posts something, you are more than welcome to say ?hey dude, great idea!?

    Note that I don?t have some fantasy that a card creating company will see the game and offer us a million dollars! This is done purely for fun and a way to bring us card fans together.

    So what is Smuggler: FBCG about? Let me explain. I have always been a big fan of ?Space-Trader? simulation games like Elite. (If you?ve never played Elite, you can download it here. It?s an old game but I guarantee you won?t be disappointed.) In the Smuggler game, you are an independent trader. There?s no light side or Dark side player here. This is possible for multiplayer or just pairs.

    THE RULES SO FAR.
    Note that these rules are open for debate and change. Anything written in blue is something that has a few possibilities already.

    If something is in red that means I have no idea what to do with the concept.

    An underlined term is something I am still looking for a better word for, or a rough value that is very open for change.

    SETUP:
    Both player start the game with 2 decks: Smuggler and Empire. Both decks must have at least 40.

    OR Both players decks be at least 70 cards and must have equal numbers of Smuggler and Empire cards (like LotR:TCG)


    To start the game, both players must remove one Starship card from their deck. That is their starting starship, and one planet card form their deck. That is their starting Planet.

    THE CARDS.
    There are several types of cards.

    STARSHIP. This is a Smuggler deck card. It has various values (?).

    ORDINANCE These are weapons/ equipment that you can add to your ship

    PLANET: The various planets in the Star Wars Universe.

    CARGO: Things you can buy and sell.

    CONTRACTS: work you can do for various employers.

    ACTIONS: Events that happen in the Star Wars Universe. Some stay on table while others are discarded.(These could also be separate card types like interrupts and effects).


    EXPANDED INFO ON THE CARDS
    STARSHIPS> As a smuggler, you need a ship to move around in. Some starships are good battle , some are fast. Some has large cargo holds or can be supplied with difference amounts of ordinance.

    The imperial forces also have Starships.

    ORDINANCE: These are modifications for your starship, and can range from weaponry to engines, to expanded cargo holds. Your starship will tell you how much ordinance it can take.
    Ordinance only goes in your Smuggler deck

    PLANET: There are many planets in the Star Wars Universe. Most (but not all) can be traded with. There are a few ?common? things to trade (see cargo) listed on these planets. Each one has a value (see below). Each also has a position indicatior marking it?s place in the galaxy.
    Planets only go in your Smuggler deck

    Planets only go in your smuggler deck

    CARGO: There are several types of cargo (?) These have a cost and an availability listed on them.

    Cargo only goes in your Smuggler deck

    CONTRACTS: These are similar to cargo, but they gain you credits generally without costing you. However, in orde
  2. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    Rules that I missed:

    When you play am ?Imperial? event or an imperial ship is destroyed, you play it face up onto the imperial discard pile. At the end of any turn, both players place that pile face down underneath their imperial deck.

    This means that the Imperial deck recycles, and in the same order that they come out.

    If you have any Imperial points left at the end of your opponent?s turn, you may use them to place a card in the Imperial discard pile (before recycling)

    Card drawing would occur at the start of the turn, but it is undecided whether it would be one at a time or evening up. The imperial ?hand? cards at the pile, would always be the set number.

    There is no card for Coruscant. The section at the center of the table where Imperial hands go would represent the Imperial Centre. Trade is possible here, all cargo items are ?average?.

    The three scales should have said: Common, Average and Rare. You cannot sell an item to where it is common, or buy it from where it is rare.

    The smuggler hand size is at this time undecided (as ids the Imperial hand size)

    You start the game with a yet to be defined amount of tokens

    The game is set around the OT universe, though of course would include PT themes.

    The aim of the game is to be the first to reach an as yet undefined amount of tokens

    To give you the ?feel? of what I am thinking here, this is a possible turn sequence (all values, names, cards, rules etc are hypothetical):

    Fred and Mick are playing. Fred starts with Medium Bulk Freighter and Naboo while Mick starts with YT-1300 Freighter and Malastare.

    Both set aside 10 tokens to start with. Draw 8 cards from their Smuggler deck and put 5 Imperial cards at Coruscant.

    Using a fair method, Mick goes first.

    During his Trade phase, he plays a cargo card that says ?2 essentials? he pays the amount, lets say 4 tokens, and places the cargo card in his cargo section with 2 tokens on it..

    He then plays the event ?TOYDARIAN JUNK DEALER? The card states ?play an ordinance from your Smuggler pile. That card?s cost is +1? (pretty cool huh? It would be easier to find an item, but it would cost you!?

    He plays quad laser cannon, pays the 5 tokens (4 + 1) and places the card near his cargo section. He then ends his Trade section.

    It is now Fred?s Imperial turn. He turns over the first card and sees that it is a Star Destroyer with a cost of 4. He chooses to play the card to Malastare. He now looks at the card, an event, and places it back. The next card is a Tie Fighter Squadron, which he decides not to play (placing the card back). The next two are events. He then pays 1 to place one of the events in his Imperial discard pile. His Imperial Phase ends.

    Now back to Mick, who is in his ?take-off phase?. Because there is an Imperial ship at Malastare (Remember: his starting planet) he has to choose: fight (stupid and pointless) evade (also pointless) dump his cargo (pointless) or allow to be scanned/ boarded. He allows the ?scan? which comes up with nothing illegal.

    His hyperspace phase sees him flying to Coruscant, where nothing challenges him. He ends his turn, and Fred recycles his Imperial discard pile.

    Hope that makes sense.
  3. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    I forgot the link for Elite. Get it here . Trust me, it's an oldie but a goodie.
  4. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    Cool! I haven't looked at the Elite link yet, but let me throw some ideas out...

    Both players play Smuggler and Imperial cards, kinda like LOTR.

    Imperial ships stay in play from turn to turn. They roam the galaxy, looking for smugglers to catch.

    During your turn, your opponent controls ALL Imperial ships on the table, both his and yours.

    Imperial ships are initially deployed to Coruscant or another system that is a "shipyard".

    At the start of the game each player takes a number of Imperial ships out of their deck with a total build cost equal to some set limit and deploys them to Coruscant face down. Let's say the build cost of an Imperial Class Star Destroyer is 6, a Victory Class is 5 and a Dreadnaught is 4, and the setup cost limit is 20. You could deploy 2 ICSDs and 2 Dreadnaughts, or 1 ICSDs 1 Dreadnaught and 2 VCSDs. You could not deploy 4 ICSDs, or only 3 ICSDs.

    After each player deploys 20 points of Imperial ships to Coruscant, each player simultaneously deploys a smuggler ship and starting planet from their deck. If both players choose the same starting planet, that's not a problem just stack one on top of the other, since they're the same card. If both players choose the same starting ship, players bid with cash from their stash. High bidder keeps their starting ship but loses the cash they bid. Low bidder keeps their cash but must choose a different ship (and planet? dunno) from their deck. If they don't have another ship in their deck, they are stupid and automatically lose the game. (grin)

    If both players bid the same (or instead of bidding) then play a game of Sabaacc to determine who gets to keep their ship!

    After all starting planets and ships have been deployed, turn the Imperial ships over. These ships are orbiting Coruscant, waiting for their orders.

    Players bid to go first, with cash, similar to LOTR. Then draw your opening hand.


    As for turn structure, how about this:

    Smuggler Phase -
    During your turn, you may deploy one of each of the following: contract, planet, starship (must pay for this from your stash), ordinance (must pay for this), and cargo (for free to a "matching planet", or pay the cost to put on board your ship). You may also play "deploy phase" actions. This phase is over when you "pass".

    A "matching planet" example would be spice cargo on the planet Kessel. In other words, any planet where that cargo is common, average or rare.

    Cargo takes up space, and your ship has a limited capacity. If your ship's cargo hold is too full, you can not put any more cargo in it.

    Imperial Phase -
    Your opponent (or opponents in turn) may deploy Imperial ships and ordinance (Imperial ordinance can only be deployed on a ship at Coruscant, a shipyard, or a system sympathetic to the Empire), move an Imperial ship, or play Imperial Phase action cards. Only a set number of "empire points" may be spent. If the set number was 6, for example, the first opponent could deploy a Dreadnaught to Coruscant for 4 and still have 2 left to spend. Or if the first opponent didn't have any ships to deploy, he could move 2 ships and the second player could spend the remaining 4 points to deploy HIS Dreadnaught. Moving an Imperial ship costs 1 point if moving to a planet within range, 2 points if outside their range. You do not have to spend all 6 points.

    Move Phase -
    Now your smugglers have a chance to move away. They can jump to another system (if it is on the table) or land at the system they are at. Each ship can only make one move per turn.

    Battle Phase -
    If any smuggler and Imperial ship(s) are present together at the same system, the smugger decides what to do: fight or be boarded. Smuggler may dump any cargo before being boarded. Cargo goes to player's discard pile.

    Trading Phase -
    A smuggler ship landed on a system may sell, buy or trade cargo that is present either on board the ship or on the planet. This phase may need some more work.

    Even Up -
    Each player draws some cards, discards some cards, etc.


    (Shrug) Just some ide
  5. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    How's this for combat rules:

    1. Assignment Step: Imperial player assigns ships. Unassigned Imperials do nothing. Unassigned smugglers may team up with an assigned smuggler.
    2. Imperial Weapons Step: Each Imperial ship fires on the smuggler ship it is assigned to. Imperial ship draws destiny and adds it to power (weapons cards can add to the destiny, but even if the ship has no weapons it still ?fires? on the ship). Smuggler ship draws destiny and adds it to maneuver. If Imperial?s power > smuggler?s maneuver, the ship is ?hit?. Place a number of damage tokens equal to the difference between Imperial?s power and Smuggler?s maneuver.
    3. Smuggler Weapons Step: Each smuggler ship with a weapon card on it fires on the Imperial ship assigned to it. The smuggler ship draws destiny and adds it to power. If smuggler?s power > Imperial?s maneuver, the Imperial ship is ?hit?. Place a number of damage tokens on the Imperial ship equal to the difference between smuggler?s power and Imperial?s maneuver.
    4. Damage Step: If any ship has a number of damage counters greater than or equal to its "shields", it is immediately lost. Discard the ship and any cards deployed on it.


    For example, let's say there are two ICSDs present at Tatooine with the Falcon, Pulsar Skate and Outrider. The Imperial assigns the two ICSDs to the Falcon and Pulsar Skate. The smuggler assigns Outrider to the same ICSD that is assigned to the Skate.

    Each Imperial ship fires on its assigned target. The first ICSD targets the Falcon. The ICSD's power is 8 and the Falcon's maneuver is 6. The Imperial draws a destiny of 3 and the smuggler draws a destiny of 4. So the total power is 8+3=11 and total maneuver is 6+4=10, so the Falcon takes one damage token. It has shields of 4, so this decreases its shields to 3.

    The second ICSD fires on the Pulsar Skate(maneuver 4). This Star Destroyer has a weapon card on it that adds one to its destiny draw. The Imperial draws a 3, adds one to make it a 4, and the smuggler draws a 3. That makes 8+4=12 versus 4+3=7, a difference of 5. It only has shields of 3, so it is in deep trouble....

    But before that happens, the smugglers get to fire back (conceptually the Imps and the smugglers fire at the same time). The Falcon has no weapons on it yet, so it can't fire on the Star Destroyer. The Outrider and the Skate have weapons, though. The Outrider fires on the Star Destroyer, draws a 4, and the Star Destroyer draws a 3. The Outrider is power 3, and the Star Destroyer is maneuver 2, after adding destinies power is 7 and maneuver is 5, a difference of 2. The Imperial puts 2 damage counters on the Star Destroyer. The Star Destroyer has shields of 9, though. (They're tough to kill.)

    The Skate also has a weapon card on it, so it goes through the same process, firing on the same Star Destroyer. Let's say it gets one more hit on it. Now the Star Destroyer has 3 damage counters on it.

    Now that both weapons steps are over, you start the Damage step. The Skate has 5 damage counters on it, and it only has shields of 3, so it and everything on it are lost.

    With these combat rules, I'd add another step at the beginning of the turn, a "repair" phase where every ship removes one damage counter. Imperial ships remove one extra counter if they are at Coruscant or a shipyard.

    Some ordinance could add to the shields or maneuver or power of your ship. Some weapons may let you fire twice.

    There could be Assignment step events that let you avoid being assigned. An "evasive maneuver" or somesuch.

    FWIW....
  6. Ultima_1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I like the idea of having a smuggler be able to "run away", but Imperial ordinance still gets a shot but does not add power. There would, of course have to be an Interdictor to prevent this.
  7. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    Cool ideas guys! One thing though I need to clear up. Are you saying that each player has multiple ships, or that in your Falcon, Pulsar Skate example these are multiple players?

    The damage token idea is cool. I thought of a card that could help:

    Astromech Pool.
    Image: the room full of astromechs on Amidala's ship in TPM
    Smuggler Ordinance. (Cost = 7)
    Game Text: When you play this card, place 5 tokens on this card. Whenever your ship is damaged, you may remove tokens from this card instead of adding them to your ship. Discard this card when there are no tokens on it. May be discarded (if there are 2 or more tokens here) to prevent damage to your hyperdrive.

    A little wordy, but that's what game design is all about!

    Or this:

    Damaged Hyperdrive
    Imperial event/ action
    If opponent's ship was just damaged, play on that ship. Their hyperspeed is reduced by 5.
  8. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    Artie, are you saying that Empire and Smuggler woyuld be in the same deck? That would work, but I thought my "unseen" hand was quite original (Though I did kinda get the idea from Legend of the 5 Rings. The unseen hand causes the player to reallt think, and gives the Empire a great bluffing advantage.

    The STar Destroyers would need a huge damage score. After all, Han never took on a Star Destroyer in battle. His option was to outrun/ outfly them. A TIE fighter, or squadron is another kettle of fish however, as the Falcon could easily deal with them.

    Also, damaging a Star Destroyer does not necessarily means you escape it. After all, thye Tantive V fired a few shots at the Devestator and it didn't do them much good.

    These guidlines make battle almost compulsary. If I was a smuggler, and there was nothing wrong with my cargo, I wouldn't be keen to attack, while the Empire has better things to do than waste (and risk) starships fighting me.

    The idea is to give a player an opportunity to play with a clean legal record, however, this style of play is slow, and susceptable to an opponent willing to take a few risks.
  9. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    Artie, are you saying that Empire and Smuggler woyuld be in the same deck?

    Yeah, that was my thinking. Each player is a smuggler, trying to beat the other and get the biggest stash. That would mean each player is also the Empire, trying to stop the other players. I couldn't see a real goal for a pure Empire player, so that's why I went that direction.

    There are other games I've played where each player played the "heroes" (LOTR, and X-Men CCG, for example) but in those games each "hero" takes a turn ... both "heroes" are not in the game at the same time. I was thinking ... why not? Your smuggler ships and my smuggler ships are all present and "in play" at the same time, and your Imperial ships and my Imperial ships are all present and "in play" at the same time. You want to have strong Imperial ships in your deck to defeat your opponent, but your opponent could use those ships against you during the Imperial phase and combat.

    That would work, but I thought my "unseen" hand was quite original (Though I did kinda get the idea from Legend of the 5 Rings. The unseen hand causes the player to reallt think, and gives the Empire a great bluffing advantage.

    Yeah, I just couldn't conceptualize that. I'll try to reread that part of your posts and see if I can understand it better.

    The STar Destroyers would need a huge damage score. After all, Han never took on a Star Destroyer in battle. His option was to outrun/ outfly them. A TIE fighter, or squadron is another kettle of fish however, as the Falcon could easily deal with them.

    Sure. Absolutely. Outfly = high maneuver (hard to hit). "Well, we can still outmaneuver them!" :) The idea is a single smuggler ship shouldn't be able to take out a whole star destroyer in a single turn, but several smuggler ships could, or one smuggler ship over several turns could. (Or one smuggler ship with a lot of powerful weapons ordinance on board!!)

    Also, damaging a Star Destroyer does not necessarily means you escape it. After all, thye Tantive V fired a few shots at the Devestator and it didn't do them much good.

    That's right. But the Tantive IV (not V :) ) needed to stop at Tatooine, that was part of its mission. The same goes here. Your contract says you need to deliver spice from Kessel to Tatooine. You have to jump to Kessel (one turn) land (two) take off (three) jump to Tatooine (four) and land again (five). That gives the Empire lots of opportunities to intercept you. If a star destroyer is already sitting at Tatooine, you're at Kessel, and your contract requires you to deliver your goods to Tatooine, you will have to jump to Tatooine and survive one combat round before landing. Then when you are ready to take off for your next job, that star destroyer is waiting for you again, you'll have to survive another combat phase before jumping to a new system.

    Also, you could have Star Destroyers with built in tractor beams that lock onto a target whose shields drop below a certain level. And remember Ultima's suggestion of Interdictors - nice! :)

    Have you ever read Han Solo At Star's End? Go read the first few chapters of that book. That's what was in the back of my mind when coming up with these ideas.



    These guidlines make battle almost compulsary. If I was a smuggler, and there was nothing wrong with my cargo, I wouldn't be keen to attack, while the Empire has better things to do than waste (and risk) starships fighting me.

    No no no. As I said earlier, during the Battle Phase the smuggler decides: fight or be boarded/scanned, just like you suggested at the beginning. If their cargo is clean (or if you have some special abilities to prevent the Imperials from detecting your cargo.... :) ) let them board you; no battle.


    The idea is to give a player an opportunity to play with a clean legal record, however, this style of play is slow, and susceptable to an opponent willing to take a few risks.

    Absolutely.


    Are you saying that each player has multiple ships, or that i
  10. Ultima_1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I like that Astromech Pool card.
  11. BrenDerlin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 2
    Hi. I'm kind of a roamer on this board (I'm usually on the FanFilms board), but I'm an avid player of the game, and I'd like to be involved with this one. I'll post a larger post later, but for now, I'm wondering what the concept is for the Empire....I understand that both players play as both the empire and as smugglers, but is the Empire deck shuffled into your other deck (a la LotR) or is it a separate deck, and both players are playing with 2 decks. I personally like the second idea better, with the 5 card "hand". That sounds original to me (but then I never played legend of the 5 rings)
  12. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    Currently, it's either/or. Seeing as this is a completely conceptual thing, we are looking for anything that will work. I kinda like the separate deck idea, but that's just biased. I'm coming up with a better way to explain it though.
  13. BrenDerlin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 2
    OK, just some thoughts:

    1.What about Characters? I don't know about you, but the thing that I liked most about SW:CCG (Or ANY Movie CCG, like LotR) was playing with the main characters. Now, I know that a Qui-Gon Jinn or Luke Skywalker card would be a bit out of place, but even just pilots like Han Solo, or Dash Rendar.

    2. Another idea I had for incorporating Characters would be some card like "A Nice Easy Charter" where you would transport some passengers. Possibly this could also be something along the lines of where if you just completed a charter to Alderaan, you could then play another card that simulates how Han Solo intended to just get some quick money, but he ended up joining the Rebellion. Then for the rest of the game, the Imperials are trying to get you, and the win condition is yuo have to stay alive a certain number of turns. Okay, that might be a little too card-intesive, but it sounds pretty good to me......

    3. One more thing... How exactly would we play this game? Would we just print them on paper and put them in sleeves (maybe with real cards to back them up) or would one of the programming whizzes here be able (and willing) to design some game system, simular to the Star Trek Online CCG, or cardtable (hopefully the former, I never liked using IP addresses and junk).

    Just some ideas....
  14. BrenDerlin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 2
  15. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    I'm thinking a single deck (not separate smuggler and imperial decks) but you "seed" several Imperial ships at Coruscant to start the game. As you draw Imperial cards into your hand, you may get the chance to deploy more Imperial ships, or play Imperial "interrupts". I'm still not able to conceptualize BPJ's idea of a "hidden hand" in the middle of the table.

    Character cards would be good, but I'd like to see them as optional. In other words, you can have the Falcon on the table to start the game, and add Han to it later in the game.

    Transporting passengers would, IMO, be a separate type of "contract", and passengers themselves would be a type of "cargo". At this point, I wouldn't look at how to change the win condition of the game. :)

    -----


    Let's think about smuggler starships for a while. What statistics would go on this card? Based on our discussion so far, I see the following:

    Destiny Number - a random number used when drawing destiny.

    Ship Name - unique ("Millenium Falcon") or non-unique ("YT-1300 Freighter") ... if non-unique, perhaps players could name their own ships?

    Cost - how much the smugger must pay from his stash to bring the ship into play.

    Hyperspeed - how far the ship can jump in a single move.

    Power - the power of the ship's built-in weapons.

    Maneuver - ability of ship to avoid weapons fire.

    Armor - ability of ship to absorb weapons fire if hit.

    In addition to pilot cards boosting a ship's maneuver, certain ordinance cards could boost any these last four statistics (hyperspeed, power, maneuver and/or armor).

    Pilot capacity - maximum number of pilot character cards which can be deployed on the ship. Every ship has a permanent pilot, which is suspended if a pilot character is deployed on the ship. If there are more pilot character cards on the ship than the capacity allows, those extra pilots are "passengers".

    Cargo space - amount of cargo, ordinance, and passengers which can be loaded onto the ship. Pilots filling pilot capacity slots do not take up cargo space, but extra pilots being treated as "passengers" do.

    ...And of course there would be gametext, too...

    That's a lot of numbers, but it is comparable to SW:CCG. Too many? How could it be simplified?

  16. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    New thoughts on setup and turn structure....

    SETUP:

    1. Both players start with a stash of 40,000 credits.

    2. To see who goes first, players bid back and forth, starting with the youngest player, bidding in increments of 1,000 credits each, raising the bidding each time, until one "passes"; winning bidder loses that many credits. For example, I may start the bidding with 1,000. You raise it to 2,000. I raise it to 5,000. You pass. I lose 5,000 credits but I get to go first.

    3. First player plays a smuggler ship from his deck and pays that ship's cost in credits. Ships should typically cost between 10,000 and 20,000 credits. Second player then does the same. If the second player tries to play the same unique smuggler ship the first player played, he must play a different one. For example, if I play the Millenium Falcon, you can not play the Millenium Falcon too. But if I play a generic Medium Bulk Freighter, you can play a Medium Bulk Freighter too.

    4. Now the first player plays his Coruscant system, and the second player plays his Coruscant system on top of it. (The first player is only playing his Coruscant system to get it out of his deck.) The Coruscant system has two numbers on it, one is the number of Empire points you start with, the other is the number of Empire points your opponent starts with. Typically, your Empire points will be higher than your opponent's. For example, your Coruscant system may give you 24 Empire points, and give me 18 Empire points.

    5. Now players alternate (starting with player 1) playing Imperial ships from their deck to Coruscant. Each Imperial ship has a cost on it, and each player can only spend up to the number of Empire points given to them on Coruscant. Uniqueness rules still apply. For example, I may play the Chimaera for 10; you can no longer play the Chimaera, but maybe you play a non-unique Star Destroyer for 8; I play a TIE Squadron for 4; you play another Star Destroyer for 8; I don't have any other ships with a cost of 4 or less, so I pass; you play a Dreadnaught for 4; I pass again; you play another Dreadnaught for 4. So there are 6 Imperial ships at Coruscant at the start of the game.

    6. Now we each lay out the rest of our space line. Starting with player 1, each player alternates playing a planet from their deck, up to 4 planets for each player. You can overlay another player's planet if it is already on the table. Play the planets in order from sector 0 to sector 9. If two planets are in the same sector, the order does not matter.

    7. Once all the planets are on the table, player 1 places his starting ship at any system on the table other than Coruscant, and then player 2 does the same.

    8. Finally, each player takes all of the CONTRACT cards out of his deck, shuffles them and places them in a side deck. Then each player draws a hand of 8 cards.



    TURN SEQUENCE:

    In general, each player alternates taking actions during each phase of the turn, starting with player 1. A phase is completed when both players pass. The phases of the turn are:

    1. Deploy Phase: Players alternate doing one of the following:
    (a) Draw a contract card.
    (b) Play a card from hand. This could be a contract card, another smuggler ship, an ordinance card, a cargo card, a character card, or an "effect" card.

    2. Imperial Phase: Each player is given 6 Empire points at the start of the phase. Players may then do one of the following:
    (a) Play an Imperial ship to Coruscant or any other planet that is a "shipyard".
    (b) Move any Imperial ship (whether it belongs to him or not). If the planet is within that ship's range, this only costs 1 point. If outside the ship's range, it costs 3 points. An Imperial ship may only move once per turn.
    (c) Play an Imperial phase "effect".

    3. Move Phase: Each player alternates moving their smugger ships one at a time, if desired. Each ship may move only once per turn. A move is any one of the following:
    (a) Jump through hyperspace from one system to another. The ship must have enough hyperspeed
  17. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    It's not too many statistics. The important factor is how they are written on the card. Clarity of stats is a huge thing IMHO.

    Sounds great Arti.
  18. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    I think my ideas for "battle", "combat" and "confrontation" could be streamlined a bit:

    4. BATTLE PHASE: Starting with Coruscant and moving down the space line to sector 9, at any system where there is at least one smuggler ship and at least one Imperial ship (even if both belong to the same player) a "confrontation" takes place.

    (All actions alternate starting with player 2, not player 1.)

    (i) Confrontation Step: Each Imperial ship chooses a smuggler ship to confront. Neither ship has to belong to that player. I can use your Imperial ship to confront your smuggler ship if I wish. Or I can choose my Imperial to confront my own smuggler.

    A smuggler can not be confronted by more than one Imperial (they have better things to do). Any Imperial ships which remain unassigned after this do nothing - they do not participate in the rest of the battle phase. Unassigned smugglers may (or may not) team up with an already assigned smuggler ship, owner's choice.

    (ii) Boarding Step: Each player may choose to dump cargo from any of their confronted smuggler ships at the system. Dumped cargo goes to your discard pile. Then each player decides which ships will be boarded and which will stand and fight. Once boarded, if a ship is found to be carrying illegal contraband, the ship and all cards on it are "incarcerated" (discarded). If the ship is not found to be carrying illegal contraband, the ship is free to go (but does not participate in the rest of the battle phase).

    Illegal contraband is any cargo that you do not have an Imperial contract for, either in your hand or on the table. (I'm thinking some contracts you may keep secret in your hand, others may be public knowledge and play to the table....)

    (iii) Imperial Weapons Step: Each Imperial ship fires on the smuggler ship it is confronting (if that smuggler chose not to be boarded). Imperial ship draws destiny and adds it to power (weapons cards can add to the destiny, but even if the ship has no weapons it still ?fires? on the ship). Smuggler ship draws destiny and adds it to maneuver. If Imperial?s power > smuggler?s maneuver, the ship is ?hit?. Place a number of damage tokens equal to the difference between Imperial?s power and Smuggler?s maneuver.

    (iv) Smuggler Weapons Step: Each smuggler ship with a weapon card on it fires on the Imperial ship confronting it (if that smuggler chose not to be boarded). The smuggler ship draws destiny and adds it to power. If smuggler?s power > Imperial?s maneuver, the Imperial ship is ?hit?. Place a number of damage tokens on the Imperial ship equal to the difference between smuggler?s power and Imperial?s maneuver.

    (v) Damage Step: If any ship has a number of damage counters greater than or equal to its "shields" or armor, it is immediately lost. Discard the ship and any cards deployed on it.


    I'll try to put together a new example later...

    Here are some thoughts on some simple Battle Phase effects/interrupts:

    Evasive Maneuver
    Imperial Weapons Step or Smuggler Weapons Step: Add 2 to your ship's maneuver (4 if a pilot is on board). Notice this effect is independent....

    Doctored Manifest
    Boarding Step: If you are about to be boarded, take an Imperial contract out of your contract side deck that refers to the cargo on your ship. Show this to your opponent. Your cargo is now legal and you are free to go. Return the Imperial contract to your contract side deck and resuffle. This effect would let you transport illegal goods for Jabba or rebels, but make the Imperials think you're transporting legal goods for them!

    Bribe
    Boarding Step: If you are about to be boarded, opponent draws destiny. This is the amount you need to bribe him. Remove that many thousand credits from your stash, and you are free to go. If you do not have that many credits, ignore this card.

  19. Ultima_1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
  20. BrenDerlin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 2
    Ok, I understand about the characters, but I think you should be able to start with a pilot card, at least as an option (for instance, on the Han Solo card, you could have an option to start with him.) But it would be cool to have to start with a character and starship, and conceivably, that character is 'you'. So, if YOU die, you lose the game. That would give the Imperials a much more centralized goal, much like LotR. And though we don't want to incorporate TOO much of a single game into this, I think it would be a good idea to have a mandatory starting pilot.

    Now for the unseen hand idea. I personally really like that idea. If you can't understand it, I'll try to explain it simply. Okay, here goes: at the beginning of the game, you take the top five cards of your imperial deck, and place them all face down on the table. Here's an ASCII representation: (I hope it shows up)

    [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

    During your imperial phase, You look at the cards in sequence. First you look at 1, and decide if you want to play it. If you do, then flip it over and reveal it to your opponent(s). Then pay the costs, and place the card in the proper place. If you choose not to, then replace the card, and do not let anyone see it. Once you replace the card, you may not play it for the rest of the turn. You continue as stated above, until you get to card 5. After you have either played or replaced card 5, if you have any tokens(empire points) left, you may discard one card per token you have left. Then replace all cards until you have 5 left. Here's an example:
    Me and You are playing, and I just finished my deploy phase, so it's now your imperial phase. You get 6 more tokens, and add that to the 3 you had left over from last turn, making 9. Because I don't know which cards you looked at, and didn't play, you can bluff by making me think that you're saving up for something really big (Executor, for example). Anyway, You look at card 1, It's the executor with a deploy cost of 15 (taking from SW:CCG ) You can't play this, so you replace it. The next card is an effect-ish card for the executor, so you obviously can't play that card either. You sholud probably get the idea by now. You keep on going until you find a card that you want to deploy. You can not deploy something you see on card 2, because your hoping for something more on cards 3-5. If you don't get ones you want, then you'll have to remember that the one you want is card 2. I've probably spent enough time explaining this concept, so you should get it by now.

    Ok, now for the Phases. I liked the original Ideas for the phases. By that I mean the original names in this thread. I.e. Smuggler for deploy, jump for move, etc. But that's just personal preference. One thing I don't like, is that 'Illegal Contraband'(which is unnecessary, It's like saying 'gay faggot') is ANYTHING that isn't Empire. I can understand that anything Rebel WOULD be contraband, but conceptually, the Imperials wouldn't know that, unless of course, you're delivering to a rebel base. Here's just my Idea: just mark on the contract/cargo, that it's either legal or illegal. It'd just be easier that way.

    Another thought I had was, what about the rebels? You could incorporate them into your smuggler deck, and then the Empire would ONLY be able to fight smugglers after all the Rebels have been assigned. We could incorporate more cards into the game that way.

    Okay, that's a pretty big post, but That's pretty much all this thread gets!
  21. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    Okay, I'm starting to get the idea of the "hidden hand", but I guess I just don't see the point of it yet.

    A starting pilot with your starting ship? Sure. Making that starting pilot "you"? Well, what if you lose the opening bid? "You" don't get to be Han Solo, you have to settle for being someone else? And if you lose when "you" die, I'd just park Han and the Falcon somewhere and let the rest of my smuggler friends do the dirty work for me. Unless you want to go back to BPJ's idea of only one ship/pilot per player, which would FORCE you to put Han out there.

    "Illegal Contraband". Ha! I didn't notice that. Thanks! I guess calling it "illegal" will do.

    But making some cargo inherently illegal/legal ... I dunno. Even Kessel spice would be legal if you were delivering it to Grand Moff Whatsisname. Contracts should be able to override the inherent nature of the cargo ... (which is why I was thinking some contracts you would keep in your hand).

    As for Rebel cards in the game, I have thought of that.... Bottom line, I see them more as "effects", which show up unexpectedly only when you're trying to complete a Rebel contract, and keep your smuggler ship from being confronted. At the end of the Battle phase they get discarded.... Kinda like hit-and-run tactics.

    For example, off the top of my head:

    X-Wing Squadron
    Effect
    Confrontation Step: Reveal a Rebel contract card from your hand that references the cargo on one of your smuggler ships at this system that was just confronted. That ship is no longer confronted, and the Imperial ship takes one damage. Discard this effect.

  22. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    While I've read all posts, I've left the thread alone because I didn't want it to look like I was trying to "own" the thread.

    Great ideas everyone. I like your explanation of the hidden hand BrenDerlin (Did I get that right?)

    The idea of the hidden hand was to add a strategic element to the game. It creates a bluffing situatuion- do I have an expensive ship or was that an action.

    Also, try to steer away from gameplay concepts in the CCG. Remember, this is our game, so let's be original!

    How are we going to play it? Who knows? This exersize is simply for the fun of it. Thanks guys for your contributions!
  23. BrenDerlin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 2
    Hmm, I didn't think about losing the bid. That's true. But remember, there could be cards such as an escape pod, so even if the Falcon is destroyed, Han would survive. Also, remember that for some starfighters with high maneuver, it will make them extroardinarily (sp?) hard to hit, although they may have lower hit points. That means that you'd probably want to still fight with your primary starship anyway.

    One thing I'm not sure is clear, is about a side deck with contracts in it. Will contracts have cargo included on the card, or will you play them separately. If you play them separately, then do you have to wait until you have the cargo in your hand, or are you able to play it from your draw deck. Or as a third option, would you put cargo in your side deck as well? Also, would you play the cargo on the ship itself, or on a planet, and the ship must pick it up?

    Those are obviously a lot of decisions, so here are my votes: We have contracts and cargo be separate cards, both shuffled into your side deck. When you play a contract card (from your side deck) you play the corresponding cargo card(s) on the correct planet. Now this would let certain types of Cargo to be inherently 'Illegal' but some contracts would automatically 'make them legal..'.

    Also on the subject of Cargo and Contracts, I think that Cargo should have a certain amount of credits that its worth. Example:

    Spice:

    Illegal

    Common: 3000 Average: 5000 Rare: 10000


    Then it would go on to list the planets in which it is common, average, and rare.

    Now as you said, delivering spice to some addicted Moff, would require some contract that would make the Imperials 'overlook' the Illegal text.

    Also, Contracts would add to the credits earned, and (maybe?) pay for the up front cost of buying the cargo.


    Oh, And I like that idea for the rebel cards. That does pretty much the same thing that rebel ships would. (Although It probably wouldn't be called an 'effect' :) )
  24. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    I envisioned contracts going in a side deck, and separate from cargo. Basically, I'm envisioning contracts being the crux of the game. You would earn money in the game by completing contracts, by transporting goods - legal or illegal - from point A to point B. Since completing a contract is complicated enough, you need an easy way to pull them into your hand, thus the side deck.

    In the Smuggler (or Deploy) Phase, you can draw as many contracts as you want from your side deck, but remember that at the end of the turn you'll have to even up your hand, so the more you draw the more cards you'll have to discard, and the more "wasted" slots they'll take in your hand until you complete them.

    Most likely, after drawing your opening hand, you'll have some cargo in your hand. So you may want to draw up contract cards until you find one for that cargo. Drawing up cards into your hand until you find both a matching cargo and contract would just be too frustrating.

    Here's a sample Imperial Contract card:

    Imperial Contract
    Grand Moff Whatsisname's Spice
    Plays face-up on table.
    Goal: Deliver 10 [cargo-units] of Spice to the military base on Ralltiir.
    Payout: 40,000 credits. Your opponent may bid on this contract.
    Reward: Once per game, deploy one ordinance card from your draw deck for half-cost.

    So your goal is to get 10 [cargo-units] of Spice into your ship. (You can't just deploy the spice to Ralltiir. It is neither Rare, Average or Common there.) Let's say 10 [cargo-units] of Spice -- and that could be one or two cargo cards' worth! -- costs 15,000 common, 25,000 average, and 30,000 rare. During your Smuggler (deploy) phase, you could deploy 5 [cargo-units] to your ship for 25,000 credits from your stash. Or you could deploy the spice to a planet for free - only where spice is common, average or rare, though. On Kessel, spice is common, so you would have to land there, and either buy or trade for the spice for its common cost of 15,000. On Tatooine spice is rare, so you would have to buy/trade for its rare cost of 30,000.

    Once you get the spice on your ship, you have to jump to Ralltiir, land, and unload your cargo. Once you do, you get paid 40,000 credits per the terms of the contract. You've just made a profit of 10-25,000 credits. And, as a bonus, once per game you can "buy" some ordinance cheap from the Empire, half-price.

    One wrinkle to Imperial contracts is players could bid for them. Starting with the printed Payout number, players could bid down until one player passes. The winning bidder gets the contract, but only gets the payout he bid for. You could "steal" an opponent's contract that way, but the profit would be even lower than usual.

    A Rebel contract might look like this:

    Rebel Contract
    Gun Running
    Plays face-up to table.
    Goal: Deliver 5 [cargo-units] of ammunition from Kuat to Dantooine.
    Payout: 1,000 up front; 10,000 upon completion.
    Reward: Once per turn, take one Rebel card or one ordinance card into your hand from your draw deck.

    This contract, unlike the first, specifies exactly where the cargo must come from. The Rebels pay less, but they pay a percentage up front, and you get nice rewards for completing them.

    A third example:

    Hutt Contract
    Jabba's Entertainment
    Keep in your hand.
    Goal: Deliver 3 Twi'lek slave girls to Jabba on Tatooine.
    Smuggler Phase: Once per turn may reveal this contract to your opponent to take up to 3 Twi'lek slave girls into your hand from your draw deck and/or to deploy slave girls to your ship for free.
    Payout: 40,000 credits.
    Penalty: If cargo is dumped or confiscated, lose 25,000 credits.

    Jabba pays big, but no bonus rewards, and big penalties if you screw up. Your opponent may not know what your contract is, unless you need to use it to fish the cargo out of your draw deck.

    And, because someone mentioned it earlier:

    Rebel Contract
    A Nice Easy Charter
    Keep in your hand.
    Goal: Deliver 4 passengers from Tatooine to Alderaan. No questions asked. Avoid
  25. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    Arti, I can't get a website going due to [face_devil] firewall problems, but if you like, I can e-mail some pics or a powerpoint show to you showing how it works.

    I am also doing some mock- ups of what cards could be like.

    Maybe you could have specific personalities in your deck that help you pull contracts.

    Like:

    Jabba the Hutt
    Personality (Smuggler deck)
    Requirements: Tatooine
    If you are not completing a contract, once per turn may pull a "Jabba" contract from your deck/ contracts pile/ whatever.
    Jabba is the Big Poppa in the spice game. Doesn't like it when smuggler's dump their cargo at the first sight of Imperials.

    Couldn't resist the Big Poppa bit. :D
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