Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Convor, May 1, 2013.
Ok, this one I'll agree with you on.
Well god ****ing damn, it's a ****ing miracle.
[srs post] Good to know we agree on something. [/srs post]
Absolutely agree about Cummings being one of the most prolific and accomplished VAs in western animation. In fact, the other day my brother was watching an episode of Courage the Cowardly Dog and I recognized Cummings' voice immediately--he played a magician named Fusilli, whose voice was almost exactly the same as Hondo's, down to the accent. He's played countless animated characters in many vastly different roles through the decades.
Another point about Hondo. I believe he's a perfect example of a Chaotic Neutral character in TCW. Reason being, he's "chaotic" in the sense that his "mood is based on profit", that he's seemingly willing to kill children to obtain precious crystals one day and then refuse to see them off to battle simply based on the fact that they are children, on another. And of course, being a pirate, Hondo is very much "neutral", not discriminating between taking hostages from Separatist leadership (Count Dooku) and those who serve the Republic (Obi-Wan and Anakin). Yet his character development in A Necessary Bond revealed that he is certainly not devoid of compassion. I think it's his distinct personality with decision-making based on mood, his overall neutrality and sense of fairness (recall him not siding with Boba and Aurra Sing against Ahsoka and Plo Koon despite the fact that Aurra is his lover), his down-to-earth nature, and the fact that he puts number one before anything else that makes him such an appealing and likeable character (right down to the Jack Sparrow mannerisms).
It looks like The Clone Wars has won at least 1 daytime emmy. David Tennant won the emmy for his voice-acting for Huyang.
A well-deserved win; Huyang was a memorable character.
Congratulations, Mr. Tennant!
An interesting winner but nonetheless it will be cool to finally say and hear "The Emmy-award winning series Star Wars: The Clone Wars."
Oh yes, so memorable I had to go look it up AGAIN to remember what the character was...
If anyone deserved a nod for voice acting, it should have been Eckstein, Lanter or Dee Bradley Baker. Their parts were bigger, far more significant, and involved far more work than that to portray some bit character in a lesser episode.
While Tennant gave a good performance, I believe the series was robbed (once again and now for the last time) for not winning any of the other categories, not to mention that other TCW actors on that same category gave much more worthy performances that Tennant.
You are forgetting that neither of them were nominated.
The only people who were nominated were Jim Cummings, Sam Witwer and David Tennant. And it depends on the category too. I don't think this specific award was meant for the regular contributors to a show, rather the guest stars.
It also seems a bit ridiculous that people moan about how TCW has been ignored and yet when it does win something you still complain!!!
I wasn't talking about who was "nominated"; I was talking about who deserved to win.
I can't speak to that. If you are correct then I would revisit the issue.
Ever heard the expression "damning with faint praise"?
George Lucas, Dave Filoni, Cary Silver and Athena Portillo accepted the award for Outstanding Special Class Animated Program at the Emmys tonight!
Ok, that is cool. Why "special class" though? Why can't all shows be judged according to type? Clone Wars is a drama program.
I am so happy about this last emmy award. GL and the show deserved it. Look, we all have our differences, but damn the show got progressively better with each season. This is big. GT micro clone wars series won 3 Emmy's and Annie with the time frame that it had, but this show, was special. There was alot of work from everyone, from GL, to Filoni, the producers, writers, animators, and even the fan base. This means a lot to me, and it made my year. This one win made me happy. Now, from here on out the show will be always called the Emmy Award winning show like its predesecor. I'm sleeping good tonight, and I hope that this motivates Disney to release as many bonus content episodes that it can and that next years Rebels can do even better then the clone wars. Two Emmy's for a series that has gotten blasted from begining to end.
Umm... diiiiiiiiiisagree. I believe this is a case of fandom magnifying its quality. You just can't put it up next to Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, Boardwalk Empire, Homeland, Downton Abbey, Lost, or any of that. Even the formats clash. It would look like a joke.
There are different forces at work which make TCW what it is, and it just can't be judged with the same standards. They got exactly the sort of award they deserved.
I can and I do. Most of those shows suck, esp Walking Dead (zompoc) and Lost (whatever the heck it is). Clone Wars is 1,000,000% better drama than either.
And "format" is nothing but the old "animation ghetto" thinking. Good drama is good drama whether it's LA or animation of some sort.
While I agree wholeheartedly that a show that's animated should be considered no less than a show that's live-action, and have enjoyed a vast number of animated series as much if not more than several live-action series, stating that TCW is a million percent better than series like Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire, Homeland, or Game of Thrones is a solid example of that fandom bias PraenomenCognomen was talking about. Each of these series have garnered consistently higher ratings than TCW across their run, especially Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones. TCW has had it's truly great moments, but it can't compete with the public awareness and the mainstream love that Thrones is getting, for instance.
The fact that you say most of those shows suck implies that you don't actually care about which critical criteria conventionally go into nominating a show (as well as what shows are conventionally advancing the medium of television). The Clone Wars is incredibly shallow in terms of nuanced storycraft, character development, and dialogue. That's no sleight, because as a mild action show with a primarily young adult audience, it's not supposed to be those things. It's also totally OK if those things aren't what you care about in a show, but it is what critics and the Emmy Nomination Board care about... so what good would it do to get an award from a group of people whose standards are completely different anyway? The Clone Wars is not made for the people who watch the above listed shows, so why does their approval matter? Have some objectivity.
EDIT: and by format, I mean a 22-minute show which doesn't have an over-arching story arc, but several smaller arcs. That's an example of why it can't stand up to the others, right there.
Its sad the way western animation carries such a stigma that I feel certain that if Walking Dead was an animated show on exactly the same level it is, it simply wouldn't be taken as seriously. Now I don't feel anything needs to win an award to be great but I have always despised the way award shows like the Emmys handle animation.
I don't think there is an animated show airing that could run with the likes of Walking Dead, Homeland, and Man Men in the primetime Emmys but its dumb as hell animation is lumped into two categories "Outstanding Animation" then "Outstanding Animation Short Format" which means upwards of 28 nominees as different from each other as The Regular Show, Tron Legacy, and The Cleveland Show are running against each other. It just doesn't seem fair and minimizes recognition. Animation should be divided into categories by genre and put against each other that way. Fortunately we have the Annies for that but how many people know what that is?
And all that is moot because TCW was in the Daytime Emmys for "Outstanding Special Animation" because those dumbasses can't figure out how to name a category of shows run like Saturday cartoons that are not like flipping early 2000s nicktoons. It just annoys me to see TCW and Korra in a Category called 'special animation'. Please call them Action Cartoons. I'm glad TCW won however. Congrats. I feel whole heartedlyTCW did advance the medium of animation both in quality and storytelling and helped ignite the return of the action animated series while crackbaby comedy dominates most of animation.
(1) Walking Dead has never been nominated for an Emmy, outside effects categories. That said, it's also pretty adult, and that does make a difference to people; they want new kinds of stimulation from their chosen media, and you often can't get that from examining tried-and-true moral themes alone. That's the bread and butter, and the blessing and the curse, of Star Wars.
(2) Re: animation's place in the Emmys, while I agree from an idealistic point of view, the fact is, the Emmys don't determine what goes where in the end... the general populace does. There are tons--and I mean tons---of people who turn off animation just because it's animation. They're mostly middle-americans in their 40's or older who grew up in an era when animation was for children. Most people can't even see the Simpsons or Family Guy for the standard sitcoms they are. I can't really blame them for that, though, because it's just a matter of what they're comfortable with; of course they should be more open-minded, but shouldn't everybody, and about much more important things?
Edit: I get that you're saying animation should still be separate, but divided more fairly... only problem there is, it might also limit the imaginations of showrunners of animated TV to put too strong a structure on it. I actually think we're seeing the great stuff we're seeing specifically because the prestige is pretty much equal no matter what the show is; more variety, less trends, more experimentation.
So what it really says is... awards don't friggin' matter. And this may sound extreme, but personally, I take it a step further: Quality is an illusion. There is only what you enjoy, and what you do not. Critical response is just another element which shapes one's opinions, almost more strongly than the content itself. It can be a poison or a salve, but if you can just be open-minded enough to sit down with something for an episode or two and see what you think, then in the end, you really have no need for it.
And animation can get plenty adult however animation like that simply doesn't exist in Western Animation in my opinion. I can think of several animes out there that are adult, full of drama, and will rip the heart out. I was pulling from the list of examples you yourself gave of shows TCW should not be categorized with. You can substitute animated version of Walking Dead with any show you want and we'd have the same result. TCW examined themes like slavery, good and evil, betrayal, the populous getting snowed to turn against their heroes, rebellions, and even child soldier which was fine for what it was. I never asked for more than that, I had fun.
That doesn't mean animated shows should all be grouped together in one lump by an awards show that to my knowledge is constructed by ATAS peers to give recognition for excellence in television. The Emmys are not the 'Viewers Choice' awards and its not measured by ratings so it shouldn't matter if grandpa is turning Family Guy off because he thinks it Looney Tunes after 500 episodes as an animated sitcom, but I'm sure you know that. Its still not fairly judging animated content. Unless its for best picture no one puts an action movie in with a comedy. Hell the primetime awards will be done off screen and most people won't know or care who won so your right, what the hell does it matter. Idealistically I would like to see Western Animation become more mainstream, possibly break out of where its stuck between crackbaby shows and the same old superheroes (don't get me wrong. I love Batman). It won't get there by always being swept under the rug. Please give me a bonified TV-14 or MA animated action show.
Awards don't matter but there are idiots out there who want to watch whatever get the awards. Far more important to me though is the people working in animation from creators, to writers, to voice actors who do stellar jobs that I feel deserve more recognition than they get. They deserve just as must as anybody working on any live action series should get. I would like to see more animation have a chance. As an animation buff that is simply what I feel, as I mentioned in the last paragraph I want the industry grow. I feel like its been stuck in the same place for a long time. I'm no slave to quality. heh, you must not be reading many of my posts since I am pretty open about my Power Rangers fandom on the forum and it doesn't get much lamer than that, yet its pure fun for just how bad it is. I actually enjoyed TCW when I first started watching it because it reminded me of 90s cartoons except with cool CGI. I loved TCW even more as it grew out of that.
A well-deserved win. Glad TCW got its due before it ends for good with the bonus material.