ST Star Wars: The Force Awakens...reviews

Given that Disney did their best to go 'Look! It's like the OT! Love us!' with TFA's marketing--yeah, no. It's conspiracy theory bull****, and maybe you could say that some individual articles were just there to draw clicks...buuuut you could make the exact same accusation of the Plinkett/RLM stuff itself, with the way it's so drawn out.

I think for some people, stuff like the Clone wars series may have lead them to be more appreciative of the prequels with the extra context provided, but I doubt Stoklasa would know or care enough to consider that.

 

I love how to some, it's more likely that there was a conspiracy to buy popularity, rather than just face the fact that lots of critics, bloggers and fan think highly of a movie they personally hate. Occam's razor.

People also realises Plinkett is satirising the arm-chair troll type as well don't they?

I agree that the PT praise coming from some quarters now is just evidence of people passionate about the PT getting their material out there.

And the other thing to say about pitching alternatives - things may sound great in isolation, but there is always execution to consider and equally, one has to consider how any changes would track through and alter what already works. Which is not me saying alternatives can't be better or are t worth hypothesising.

 

What I'm really coming to realise is that different people look for different things when they watch a movie. If it really hits a sweet spot for you, you can usually forgive almost anything.

Critics and fans are often approaching movies from very different angles. A critic will approach a film from the POV of how it fits into the overall history of cinema and its cultural context. Fans may instead be asking "How well does it fit into this universe's mythology and does it satisfy me as a fan of this franchise?"

Maybe there really are no bad movies, just niche movies. TFA is evidently not a niche movie, and spinning conspiracy theories to explain away that fact is really not necessary. It's enough to say, "It didn't work for me". You don't always have to be part of the silent majority.

 

It's rude but it's definitely not ridiculous in an age where paid for amazon reviews are the norm.

 

It's more ridiculous than the idea many positive reviews were genuine.

 

How far does this spread? Are genuine critics in real publications getting payola?

And do you notice how these conspiracies are only ever posited when the reviews don't go the way the fans believe they should? If Wonder Woman gets good reviews (say), how does that fit into the anti-DC conspiracy?

 

If Rogue 1 gets bad reviews, how will that affect the theory?

I don't get why "the film doesn't work at all for me but I can see that it's genuinely popular with many" is such a tricky proposition for some.

 

^^ I don't get why you don't get that.

 

So... what, you're disputing that "it's genuinely popular with many"?

 

Do you think TFA is not genuinely popular with many (I'll include critics, bloggers and audience members in that)?

You seem to think that not liking something (valid) means that rather than accepting general consensus and demonstrable evidence (sensible) it's better to come up with an unlikely conspiracy with little to no evidence to back it up (tinfoil hat territory/ disingenuous).

 

Of course I'm not disputing that at all. What I do dispute is that some of those who enjoyed TFA seem to assume that the majority feel the same and assert that the film response is therefore overwhelmingly positive. This is not what I have found at all. This forum is literally the only place Where I have spoken to SW fans and the majority enjoyed TFA. Any other forum I have been on, or speaking to friends or gamers who are SW fans, the response to TFA was very negative and similar to my own. So really it depends where you choose to frequent. Perhaps those defending the movie feel more comfortable surrounded by like minded individuals, I don't know. For me the arguments against TFA and it's many, many flaws and failings are so strong that it's easy to defend a negative stance so numbers aren't needed. If I were to guess I would say the positive/negative split would be 50/50, if not then more in favour of the negative side.

 

I would completely disagree with your assessment.

Yes, there are many who the film didn't work for.

But if you think the overwhelming critical and general consensus is not positive, I can't help you.

 

In terms of hardcore fandom or within the general public?

 

Well then yes Satipo that is precisely what I believe so we may have to leave it there.

Artoo - again not definitive by any means but my own findings are that 'hardcore fandom' is mostly negative and it is more positive with the general public. This is only what I have found but after seeing the movie myself, is exactly what I would have guessed. As a long time SW fan myself, I found TFA to be awful and by far the worst SW movie so quickly moved to see if other long time fans I knew felt the same and like I said, the general consensus with them and beyond, was hugely negative.

 

Yes - fine. Let's agree to disagree there.

 

I kind of agree insofar as I think it's divisive within hardcore fandom. But hardcore fans are a tiny minority of people. The general public seem to have really enjoyed it, so really, it was overall a success in terms of giving people a Star Wars movie they'll enjoy.

I've been enjoying Star Wars for 34 years, but I don't fit the "hardcore" mould. I watch the movies, TCW and Rebels. I read some of the comics. I post here. I have run Star Wars blogs. But I don't care about stats and minutiae and cataloguing every bit of information. I enjoy the fun, the adventure, the symbolism more than the nuts and bolts of the universe. And I think that if you're heavily into the more literal aspect of Star Wars, TFA is more likely to disappoint.

 

Very well said Artoo. Good point about 'hardcore fans' over general fans. My own thoughts on SW has evolved over the years to the point where the greater part of my enjoyment and admiration is of the universe of SW and the lore it has produced, over the movies themselves. This is in part because to some extent, I feel the movies have never, and perhaps can never, do the universe that has been created, proper justice.

 

And fair enough. Like I said, different people look for different things from movies they wish to enjoy.

 

^ Absolutely. And admittedly my love for the lore and SW universe no doubt makes my expectations of the movies far too high. But even with that, no other SW movie disappointed me to the extent that TFA did. Of course though it's all about opinions, if a so called 'hardcore fan' finds the TFA to be amazing, then fair enough. Whilst I find that difficult to comprehend due to my own extremely negative perceptions of the movie, I can accept it nonetheless.

 

You're lost!

 

Er ... what?

 

RE: about bought critics,

I posted this in another thread were the subject came up RE the recent Ghostbusters film.

As for Ghostbusters, long before the film opened, Sony would have figured that they were looking at a loss or at best, a break even. So why even bother with spending more money to get good reviews?

That critics are at times not in agreement with the general population, that isn't news.
But that studios would spend loads of money to bribe critics and this was done on a massive scale.
If that was the case, then someone would have talked by now. Something would have gotten out.

And I just don't think that the studios would want to risk this. If the truth ever did get out that they did this on a massive scale, the backlash could get ugly.
And again why bother, some films are "critic proof", that people will go see it despite bad reviews.
SS is an example of that.
Other films will most likely do badly even with great reviews.
Ex the recent Ben-Hur remake. That got bad reviews but even with stellar reviews I don't think that would have changed much.

RE: TFA's position within the hardcore fandom.
In the Saga forum there is a thread where you can vote on all seven SW films.
TFA is currently in 4th place, after ESB, RotS and ANH. But ahead of RotJ, AotC and TPM.
And I've seen others polls that gives TFA a score of above 3 out 5 and 4 och 5 start were quite common grades.
And this is a site with lots of fans. So I haven't seen much evidence to suggest that it is massively hated within the hardcore fandom. Some fans dislike it, which is fine. Others thinks it is ok and others thinks it is great.

I would say, going back to TPM, that movie, based on what I saw here and other places, was more divisive.
Then the fandom was quite divided about it's merits and so were the critics, some liked it, some thought it was ok and some thought it was bad.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface