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ST Star Wars: The Force Awakens...reviews

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by w4tkn, Nov 30, 2015.

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  1. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Lol complaining about a movie that got favorable reviews. The most accurate barometer upon which to measure modern movie reviews is the average rating on Rotten Tomatoes or a Metacritic score. In the case of TFA, those scores are 8.2 and 81 respectively.
     
  2. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Modercreeper Is Always Watching star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    So, moving on...
     
  3. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    It's too much free time for bored fans.

    Here's a more interesting speculation on TFA reviews minus the tinfoil hat sensationalism. Imagine Ebert and Corliss alive. How would they have reviewed TFA? We will never know, but we can base our speculation on evidence provided by their previous reviews. There's absolutely no evidence for the paid off critics nonsense.
     
  4. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Who else has noticed a lot of backlash recently? It seemed that in the hype surrounding the release, it was near universally praised, but a lot of bitter fans are voicing their concerns. A video asking if it was the best Star Wars movie was met with a resounding "no" from the comments section...


    Where I stand is that I believe the prequels were unfairly tarnished, while TFA was seemingly above the same criticism. But now, I'm seeing comparable vitriol. Is this the Star Wars cycle now? Love it when it's released, but hate it when it that becomes trendy? Granted, I thought TFA was overrated, but still a good film. Why is it impossible to not associate with the extremes of something either being the "best" or "worst?"
     
    TheOneX_Eleazar likes this.
  5. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I honestly have not noticed any significant backlash. The flaws that were always acknowledged will perhaps be noted again in reviews for Rogue One, but that's about it.
     
  6. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    SlashMan, I think it's tough for any film to withstand multiple viewings. I've watched ANH and TESB probably 50 times. I'd hate almost any film if I watched it that many times.

    I think most regular filmgoers liked TFA just fine, just like they liked AoU or Skyfall. They're not watching it over and over, and they haven't watched the OT so many times that TFA feels like a retread. There's probably also a subset of filmgoers who didn't think it was anything special because they really only like very original films -- the Matrix; Back to the Future; Good, the Bad, and the Ugly; Apocalypse Now; Nolan films; Tarantino films, etc.

    Most people who aren't cinephiles probably liked TFA just fine, and they'll continue liking TFA just fine in part because they'll only end up seeing it a few times in their lives, and I'm not saying everyone who watches 20 times will stop liking it, just that a good percentage of them will start to like it less.

    Probably a large amount of the people commenting on a page like that nowadays are cinephiles or big time Star Wars fans. Other people have already moved onto something else. With that group of people, TFA won't do as well. Cinephiles think it's overrated and are annoyed that every Hollywood film seems the same, and Star Wars fans have now watched it a ton of times, and for some of them, the magic has worn out.

    Just look at the action on the TFA boards, there are tons more recent postings on the OT boards and PT boards than on the TFA board, and it's only 1 year old versus films that are two decades old and four decades old.

    I'm not saying this to show that TFA is disliked. I think a lot of SW fans like it. Even though it was a better executed film in some ways than any of the Original Saga films, I think there's not enough new about it to make it the most loved of the films for most fans.

    Our internal poll shows just this. As the favorite SW film, it's basically tied for 4th/5th with ROTJ (9% & 8%) behind ANH 16%, ROTS 21%, and TESB 38%: Our SW poll results. These ratios, at least, between the 6 original SW films remain constant in a much larger poll by starwars.com: SW.com poll results. So, those results probably aren't a fluke.

    So, when TFA is the favorite SW by only 9% of people at a SW message board, that would mean the vast majority of people wouldn't put it at the top their lists of SW films. That doesn't make it a bad film for most fans, just not the favorite.
     
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  7. Rickleo123

    Rickleo123 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2016

    There's been a significant backlash for sure, people are wising up to the big rehash that TFA was. Time will not be gentle on Jar Jar Abrams I can tell you that.
     
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  8. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I think you're seeing a backlash that isn't there. There hasn't been some massive critical reappraisal of the PT, and there isn't a sudden critical backlash against TFA.
     
  9. Collin Tongue

    Collin Tongue Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016

    Well, Disney certainly didn't spend all those millions upon millions(66 million if I remember correctly, could be more) of dollars on advertising for nothing. How many ads and commercials and teasers for TFA were there before it was even out in theaters for everyone to see where the voice over to the commercial had lines like "The film of the year!" or "One of the best Star Wars films to date!" or "The blockbuster of the decade!"? I remember a lot of those. Big corporations spend money on media to acquire influence amongst potential ticket buyers. Is there direct proof that some big critics were paid to say great things about TFA? Not that I know of. Does it mean that never happened? Of course not. And there are professional film critics who won a pulitzer prize who think the movie was far from great. Like Michael Hiltzik, a columnist from the Los Angeles times, who won his pulitzer by writing and revealing corruption within the music industry. His article was titled "Admit it: Star Wars: The Force Awakens stinks -- and here's why:"

    http://www.latimes.com/business/hil...the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html

    I think it's worth a read, in my humble opinion. And, in my humble opinion, the movie had an insane amount of hype and wasn't nearly as good as all those advertisements would have us believe. Look up metacritic user reviews and sort by most helpful, i guarantee you there are a lot of reviews in there that many many people clicked as very useful that do not fawn over the movie as some incredible work of art, but rather something far from it. There are also a lot of reviews that will praise it too, no doubt, that are also found to be helpful. Just sayin' nothing is black and white, and some of the criticism aimed at TFA is justifiable, at least in my opinion. I wish they had spent that 66 million dollars in advertising on the script instead of tv ads, it's Star Wars, people are gonna see it no matter what. It's the biggest phenomenon ever in film history.
     
  10. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I have absolutely no memory of any ad promoting TFA as "The film of the year!" and so forth prior to its release.

    In any case, the argument seems to be, "Disney paid to heavily promote TFA, and some reviews were mixed or negative." No kidding! Is this meant to be a controversial statement?
     
  11. Collin Tongue

    Collin Tongue Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    If you don't think Disney promoted the heck out of Star Wars the TFA as incredible at all, with it's advertising and teasers, then that's ok. I would respectfully disagree. I remember seeing a lot of that in the buildup to it's release. And again, they didn't spend 66 million dollars to convince us that the movie was mediocre, they did it to convince us this was the best Star Wars film to date. I sure thought it would be. And no, it wasn't meant to be a controversial statement. I was just expressing my personal opinion, that's all. Did you check out that pulitzer prize winning columnist's review I linked? You might appreciate some of the points he makes.
     
  12. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I think I've read it before. I just don't agree with it. I think TFA is flawed, but I don't think it's "not very good". Its biggest flaw is its conservatism, but it has moments that break through that fear of failure and are as good as any moment in the OT. At worst, it's still better than four of six other Star Wars films (IMHO).

    Do you remember the build-up to TPM? You're talking as if the promotion for TFA is evidence that the film wasn't that good--that Disney had to brainwash people into seeing it.
     
  13. Collin Tongue

    Collin Tongue Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    I definitely remember the build up to TPM. That trailer...OMG. So good. I had the same reaction to the TFA trailer. I kept telling my brother "JJ is going to make the greatest film of all time!" and I meant it. I don't think that's what happened, having seen it now. That being said, it was not my intention to declare that the promotion of TFA is evidence the film wasn't that good, and I don't think Disney had to brainwash people into seeing it. Again, this is Star Wars, people are going to go see it no matter what, it's the holy grail of film franchises. I just think the movie had a crazy amount of hype and the movie didn't live up to the hype, and for me, was disappointing. But again, that just my singular opinion, I only speak for myself. Are you excited for Rogue One?
     
  14. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I'm pretty excited for Rogue One, yeah. And I think it'll counter some of the issues with TFA.

    I wasn't expecting the best movie ever with TFA. I was expecting a return to great characters in a film that felt of a piece with the OT, and that's what I got. I left the cinema elated. As a bonus, it's my wife's favourite Star Wars film, and so it's something we can enjoy together. For me, it matched my expectations and occasionally exceeded them.
     
  15. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014
    I'm mainly seeing those who didn't like it at release trying to "retcon" it's rception. None of the people I see slagging the film off liked it on release. Everyone I know who liked it one release still likes it. Many of them like it even more. I had one friend who was a bit luke warm on it because of the "rehash" elements. He recently saw it again with his wife (who loved it) and told me that on further viewing, he thinks it's one of the best Star Wars movies.

    I like TFA's reputation as the movie that "saved" Star Wars is pretty cemented in the public psyche.

    This bears repeating. I think WAY too many people over-hype themselves and inevitably set up for disappointment. I was disappointed in TPM, but I did not suffer the soul-crushing disappointment some did because I did not expect it to be the best ever. OTOH, for TFA, I expected something better than the PT, but maybe not quite up to the OT. And I would have been satisfied with that. The fact that it easily beat ROTJ for me and maybe even ANH (still haven't decided) left me feeling ecstatic. I did not expect it to be the best movie ever or even the best Star Wars movie ever, so I was not set up to be disappointed.

    I think that's a misleading poll though. I LOVED TFA. It's number 3, or even number 2 for me. But ESB is my favorite. So I think this poll misses people like me. I think a ranking poll would work better. A lot of my friends are in the same spot. It's easily in the top three, but not the "favorite" for almost all of us.
     
  16. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013

    TFA comes in 5th also when you weight it for rankings. (A ranking of 1 gives a film 7 points, A vote of 2 gives 6 points, etc.) The order in these rankings is TESB, ANH, ROTJ, ROTS, TFA, TPM, ATOC.

    Click here

    Furthermore, these rankings mix together the Saga forum's 1 to 7 rankings with the TFA forum's 1 to 7 rankings, and of course, TFA does better in this second set of rankings because the TFA forums are filled mostly with TFA fans. (For instance, the PT would likely do better in rankings set in the PT forums because that's where the PT fans congregate.)

    I don't want to start a big fan wars argument, but I do think that TFA received a strong backlash by a minority of fans and many cinephiles for the reasons I list above. That's why it has like 100 pages of negative reviews on IMDb.

    Again, I emphasize that it was a clear minority of fans, but among these fans, they really hated.

    You could say, "Well, all films receive some hatred."

    But, no, I don't think that's true. The top response to a film that someone doesn't like is "meh." A lot of people think that ROTJ is clearly inferior to its 2 predecessors, but most people just say, "It's not as good," or at worst, it's "meh." Very few star wars fans hate RTOJ.

    There's a sizable minority who really hate TFA. Again, the vast majority think it's very good. Some even think it's great.

    So, the film is polarizing.

    It's hard to find a film outside of Star Wars that can stir so much emotion. ROTS is probably closest in SW. Some fans love it, most like it, but 10% to 20% hate it. Maybe the responses to Into Darkness and Watchmen were somewhat similar.

    I doubt there will be a PT-style backlash against TFA unless the next 2 Saga films are received really poorly, and when I say PT-style backlash, I mean more in popular opinion on the interwebs than within the SW fan community. (For instance, Trek '09 is the most highly rated of the Trek films by critics and on imdb, but within the Trek community it ranks somewhere in the middle among the 13 films.)

    There was a very unique set of circumstances that led to the PT backlash, some of it tied to things outside the PT, like the SE, so it's unlikely that any film will get so much backlash. I'll leave TPM and ATOC out of it, but for many years, ROTS was seen as ending the Original Saga on a high note, and some of the hate towards it at the time can also be connected to the SE. It was only 1 or 2 years before ROTS's release that GL released the DVD only in SE form. That pissed a lot of people off. (Of course, back then some people simply didn't like it for what it was. I'm talking about outside events moving people's opinions.) Then, in 2008, GL released the SW blu-ray only in SE form, and the Crystal Skull was released and not well-received. All that ill will towards GL from those things bled into ROTS, and it's now hard to find an Internet article say a good thing about ROTS, even though it had 83% positive reviews on rottentomatoes at its release (still 79%), and it remained in the Top 250 of imdb for about a year and a half (2005-2006), and it still has a high imdb rating. So, on the pop culture sites on the interwebs, there's been a really big backlash towards ROTS, and it's expressed as a given that the PT is objectively bad.

    I doubt that anything like this will occur with the ST. (Again, I'm speaking about "consensus" opinion on the interwebs.) Lucas did some things that any corporation would recognize as bad PR moves. He considered Star Wars foremost his thing, not a thing for the fans, and he said that outright. He released the SE, despite objections by fans. He aimed the PT at a new generation of 12-year-olds, not the adults who liked the original films. He then pointed out that fans were watching the OT with nostalgia tinted glasses and that people found Threepio annoying when it was released. These are not good PR moves. Then, 3 out of the last 4 Star Wars/Indy films the fans found inferior to their predecessors. Mix this altogether, and you're going to get an out-of-proportion backlash.

    With the Disney Star Wars films, I think the most likely negative outcome won't be a backlash, but a slow decline into mediocrity and relatively obscurity -- not true obscurity, but Star Wars losing what makes the release of each film a special event.

    My hope is that the Star Wars connection to the Disney theme parks might prevent Disney from churning out Star Wars films every year until the end of time. If Star Wars becomes just another run of the mill franchise, then Disney's Star Wars land might seem kind of lame. Disney might want to make sure that a key part of their top theme park remains special, especially since a lot of the rides at Disneyland/world are kind of outdated. So, they may want to limit the release of Star Wars films, or at least, Saga films so each one feels like a special event.
     
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  17. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    TOMATOMETER

    92%
    Average Rating: 8.2/10
    Reviews Counted: 361
    Fresh: 333
    Rotten: 28

    Critics Consensus: Packed with action and populated by both familiar faces and fresh blood, The Force Awakens successfully recalls the series' former glory while injecting it with renewed energy.​

    AUDIENCE SCORE

    89%
    liked it
    Average Rating: 4.3/5
    User Ratings: 219,837
     
  18. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014


    I'd agree that there is a small minority that hated the film. I haven't met them in person, but I know they are out there. They seem to fall into two camps, mostly. PT diehards that resent anything that suggests the PT wasn't the bestest, and OT only folks who think nothing could live up to the OT and hate anything that tries. I do believe that Star Wars fandom is now SO big that no one film can ever satisfy everyone. No matter what film they make now, there will be some segment that will hate it with a passion. I just think that's where fandom is today. I don't really care. Among my Star Wars friend set, TFA is a very highly regarded, generally speaking. Most would put it in their top 3 or 4. FWIW, I liked ROTS and depending on my mood, sometimes rate it above ROTJ. But IMO, both of the ROT's were well below ANH and ESB. And for me, at least, TFA is easily above them as well. And sometimes, depending on my mood, I like even better than ANH. Heresy? Maybe, but it's personal taste, of course.
     
  19. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013

    Yes, there seems to be many more categories of things people hate now that we're all connected to the Internet. Hatred used to be reserved to rival sports teams and really, really awful politicians.

    There actually used to be a time when no one truly "hated" films. People just thought those movies were bad or boring. There was no actual lasting animosity.

    It seems like the web has greatly increased our capacity to hate trivial things (and perhaps revived some nontrivial ways of hatred).
     
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  20. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I dunno, I absolutely loathed Independence Day back in '96, and it still makes me angry just thinking about it.
     
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  21. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013

    Really, why does it make you angry?

    I didn't like it at all. In fact, at certain times I was laughing when it was supposed to be serious, and there have certainly been films that I "hated" in the sense that it was a incredibly uncomfortable experience watching them. I can even think of films that have frustrated me because I knew that they could've been made better, but I can't think of film that's angered me, especially one that has left me angry years later.
     
  22. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Because it represents the cartoonish, patronising and superior attitude towards the rest of the world by a segment of the American population that gave us the second Gulf War and President-elect Trump.
     
  23. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013

    Oh, I can see where you're coming from then. I thought it made you angry just because it was poorly made film. I can see why a film that expresses a particular social or political message, like the 1915's "Birth of a Nation," would make people angry, though you must remember not to dwell on your anger, or that anger will lead to hate, and hate to suffering, and that's the path to something bad... I can't really remember what... :p
     
  24. dick rodgers

    dick rodgers Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2016
    I would argue that at least ANH and ESB can be rewatched an infinite amount of times and can still come out on the back end as truly great films. TFA just does not have that re-watchability IMHO. it just falls apart after multiple viewings for a lot of people.
     
  25. Collin Tongue

    Collin Tongue Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    I wrote a review for StereoEmbersMagazine on The Force Awakens and figured this would be an appropriate thread to share it in:

    http://stereoembersmagazine.com/star-wars-episode-vii-force-disney-corporate-greed-awakens/

    Please know that this review reflects only my opinion, I totally understand and respect if you disagree with the contents of my review and hope you respect my right to an opinion too. I don't want to start any trouble, just posting my thoughts. I consider all Star Wars fans a friend, regardless of our differences of opinion on specific movies in the franchise. :)
     
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