ST Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Fan Reviews Here

I totally understand the fans who think this way. I really do.

Personally I think the main goal when making a Star Wars movie shouldn't be "making the fans happy", but rather "making a great movie". TLJ has PLENTY of problems with it, but I don't think catering to the fans would've fixed them. I feel that kind of mindset restricts the directions a movie can go & dooms it to mediocrity the way it doomed TFA (a fun but mediocre movie that I liked).

I think there's a lot of truth to the saying that movie audiences/fanbases don't know what they want; you have to tell them what they want. I believe RJ tried to do just that. And in doing so he threw away 40 year-old precedents in order to construct something very different, but also (hopefully) special.

So it makes sense that such a gutsy take on Star Wars has been met with huge praise, huge opposition, and countless opinions in-between. I'd say that TLJ is deeply flawed, but I'd never say it was done out of spite.

 

Where does Rian say this?

 

I am going to the Theater in less then a couple of hours to see TLJ for the first time! I think I am bugging my family to no end I am super hyper and excited! I don't care what anybody says I am going in with an open mind and giving the film a chance. I am not worried at all about liking the film I am sure I will agree with the majority of the media. I mean how bad can It be Its Star Wars and Kathleen Kennedy who IMHO Is one of if not the best Film Producers in the history of Hollywood and Kathleen Kennedy Loved It so much she Hired Rian to direct a new Trilogy. I really find It hard to believe the film is bad.

 

All I can say is that it must be one of, if not the most unpredictable movie Ive ever seen. And yes, I did react "wtf" in many places accordingly. I was completely shocked by many things and really enjoyed it. It also helped I went in there for the first time ever without any spoilers, Im usually so impatient I watch and read anything possible, and google for hours to find clips or spoilers, but this time all ive seen was the two trailers and that was all I knew. Mostly, if not only, because I thought with Johnson writing and directing its gonna be the worst SW movie ever that will ruin the entire saga for me. I was even wondering whether to go see it at all. And wow, was I surprised, and then surprised more and more throughout the movie. I think it was really brave what they did

 

I'm talking about the Kylo-Luke scene and the point of what happens in it. If some inconsistencies with another scene ruins the moment for you that's your thing. It doesn't for me.

 

My review:

6/10

The Last Jedi manages to disrespect all of the lore and foundation the saga has set up to this point just for cheap wow factor. There are great scenes, but there are just that -- scenes. The movie as a whole suffers from being focused on too many things at once. Think the opening battle of The Phantom Menace but for the entire film and more boring. Did the movie throw a ton of fan theories out the window? Yes. Was it entertaining? Yes. That's why I gave it higher than a 5. The other 5 points are for substance and this movie has little to no substance

Only one of the three or four subplots the movie has is interesting (the Luke & Rey plot) and even that plot is plagued by an out of character Luke Skywalker who was comfortable with murdering his sister's son in his sleep because there was some darkness in him. This is not the same Luke that tried to save his Jedi-murdering father. I will say that Mark Hamill did a great job with what he was given. Finn's subplot is almost meaningless in the film and Poe's was by far the most frustrating. Laura Dern's character, Holdo, who seemed to be introduced just so they didn't have to have an important character sacrifice themselves withholds information from Poe for the entire film. Then after he attempts to lead a mutiny against her and he ends up getting stunned by Leia, she says that she likes him. There was really no logic to this entire subplot. Kyle Ren shows promise but director Rian Johnson never really has the confidence to pull off a daring plot twist as far as both Rey or Ren is concerned. And if you're expecting anything from Hux, Snoke, or Phasma in this film...don't. Hux is reduced to a buffoon right at the beginning, Phasma is killed, and Snoke is cut in half. Yes, Snoke getting killed is a good plot twist. But did it actually benefit the story other than making the audience gasp? I don't think so. Snoke, as well as Luke, who actually never returned to the fight against the First Order and projected himself across the galaxy instead, should've both died in Episode IX if it was absolutely necessary to kill them both off. The lack of backstory for important characters or political setup for the Sequel Trilogy continues to be a problem.

Out of place humor ruins several moments in this movie. Whoever came up with Rey's first connection with Kylo (these segments were good scenes) being interrupted by island nun-janitors and a scene where Luke milks an animal in front of the audience should no longer work on a Star Wars script. Every Force user in this movie is incredibly overpowered with no explanation and I'm sure it will leave a ton of casual Star Wars fans utterly confused as to what is going on on screen. Leia in particular has a cringeworthy moment where she survives space despite the only Force power she's shown before being her connection with Luke. Lastly, Yoda returns and shows us that Force Ghosts can cause a thunderstorm with the lift of a finger. This, along with other things in the film, create so many plot holes in the saga you almost have to consider this film non-canon to take the tension in the first six films seriously.

If you're a fan of George Lucas' first six films, there's not a guarantee you'll like this film. You may enjoy watching it, but liking it is another story. If you liked The Force Awakens, you will be disappointed by the way that Rian Johnson throws any promise the film had in the garbage just for the sake of plot twists. Did this movie ruin my childhood and is it one oft he worst movies of all time? Absolutely not. The Last Jedi is entertaining and has great moments where you'll say "wow." But I expect more out of my Star Wars films than just entertainment. I expect substance. I don't dislike this movie because it subverted my expectations. I never read a single post-ROTJ EU book and I never came to this side of the forums and read the fan theories (though Rey being a no one as the main character of the last chapters of the Skywalker Saga makes no sense whatsoever). I just think that the film failed to see itself in the bigger picture of the Star Wars universe and just tried to make a shocking movie. In my opinion, it is the worst Star Wars movie to date.

 

Initial thoughts after 2 viewings, quite spoiler-y:

1. Many things I love.

2. A few things I don't love, most having to do with Canto Bight. I'm not seeing the egregious terrible-ness of those sequences that some others seem to, but on my second viewing, that's when I squeezed in the concession stand refill.
They felt like "plot algebra" to me: needed to go meet DJ, and there needed to be some sort of complication. Jailbreak, chase scene, alien creatures ... check. It's padding, and it's not going to make the list of my favorite moments,
but I'm not feeling the hate. It's hardly 3PO in the droid factory. In fact ...

3. There is nothing in this movie I hated.

4. Top to bottom, excellent performances from the cast.

5. Loved, loved, LOVED what they did with Luke. More than anything, it reminded me of William Munney from Unforgiven (another of my all-time favs) ... a man who downplays his own legend and the possiblity of living up to it right up until the end, when he does live up to it, and then some. If Luke was a myth among the people of the galaxy in his own lifetime, his last stand in TLJ will make him an absolute LEGEND. And I can't help but notice that, just as in ROTJ,
he saved the day by not fighting. This film showed both Luke's greatness and his humanity. I couldn't have asked or dreamed of anything more fitting.

6. The humor landed for me.

7. Kylo Ren. I'm not feeling the common view that Kylo is now beyond a redemption arc ... what were we expecting? It to be easy? He was always going to get worse before he got better. And he will get better ... count on it. The last
member of the Skywalker family isn't going to die evil and unredeemed. TLJ did good work in continuing his humanization, even if he seems to be heading in the wrong direction. His last sight of Rey, with that nice little homage to the ending of The Godfather, is going to get the gears in his head turning. Ren has ascended to the top of the power structure, like Mike Corleone, but it separates him from the people he should care about. The key difference here is that it's Ren who gets the door shut on him.

8. Snoke had to go, for Kylo to progress. Masters are what their students grow beyond, after all. Movies, themes, whatnot. And "growing beyond your master" means one thing and one thing only for followers of the dark side. Also, I can accept that we weren't told much about him ... as Rian Johnson pointed out, there was a time when only the original trilogy existed, and we didn't know any more about the Emperor when he died than we did about Snoke when he kicked the ol' bucket. The Emperor and Snoke were old and ugly. And evil. And powerful. And in charge. And played a role in their flunky's turn to the dark side. Got it? Yep. Good to go. Someone will eventually tell the story of Snoke, but his backstory and goals just weren't relevant to Kylo's journey. What was relevant was Kylo achieving Vader's ambition to overthrow his master and seize power himself. As crucial story points go, Kylo's agenda trumps Snoke's. Of course
I'm curious about Snoke, there could be an interesting story there. This story is not that story.

9. New Force powers. Fine. Nothing seemed all that off-the-wall to me. The projection thing (I think I prefer "Forcetime" to "Force-Skype") is just a more-potent version of what we've seen before. Telepathic communication and illusion
have already been established in canon, this looks to be just a combination of the two. Heck, Yoda does basically this very thing with Ezra in Rebels. Yes, some things went beyond what we'd seen of Jedi and Sith in the past, but a very
important point this movie (and the franchise overall since at least TCW) made is that the Jedi and Sith didn't have a monopoly on the Force, and were not the be-all-end-all of the ways in which it can be used.

10. If Boba Fett didn't teach us this lesson in ROTJ, hopefully Phasma will: there is a difference between a Cool Costume and a Major Character. If we mistake a Cool Costume for a Major Character, we are likely to find ourselves
disappointed when that Cool Costume gets the kind of screen time and relatively unceremonious end that minor characters routinely get. Phasma existed to cause Finn some grief, just as Boba Fett existed to cause Han some grief, but both are ultimately minor characters ... the equivalent of the Bond-villian chief-henchmen, only with better fashion sense. We got a neat little fight scene out of it, so ... character purpose fulfilled. And it was a heck of a costume,
wasn't it?

11. Rey's parents. I can't pretend that at least some part of my enjoyment of this film stems from the fact that they went in the direction I'd hoped for here. If I'd had my heart set on Rey Skywalker/Solo/Kenobi/Palpatine/Jinn ... good chance I'd feel, at the very least, conflicted about this film.

12. Word to the wise going forward: if your episode 9 theory can't be explained to a general audience in 3-4 brief lines of dialogue between characters, your theory will turn out to be WRONG.

I think that's all I'll say for now. Honestly, my head's still kind of churning ... it's always a wonderful feeling for the first few weeks after a new SW film comes out to be able to ponder and tear apart an episode that I don't have
completely memorized yet.

 

Went back to the theater yesterday to catch my 2nd viewing of The Last Jedi...the first time being on Thursday night...

My notes:

1.) The film was AMAZING. Screw the naysayers (particularly those who gave it a negative audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes); I'm stoked for Rian Johnson's next take on Star Wars with his upcoming trilogy!

2.) Luke was both bad@$$ and hilarious. Who else thinks he resembled Chuck Norris during this confrontation with Kylo on Crait?

3.) I liked the music John Williams composed for TLJ. A lot more memorable than in TFA...probably because he incorporated more themes from the OT to go with that in Episode VII

4.) Porgs. Love those critters!

5.) Crait's crystal critters. Love those critters!

6.) Farewell, Carrie Fisher. Her best moment: Her floating back to the cruiser...but RIP Ackbar!

7.) Rey levitating those rocks to free the Resistance from the Rebel base on Crait: Totally epitomizes the meaning of The Last Jedi's title right there.

8.) The ending was BRILLIANT. It lends clues not only to how Episode IX will turn out (obviously), but also shows what kind of story Johnson will tell in the next trilogy.

Very symbolic for that little boy to stare up into the sky...and see that blue trail of light flash across the stars. Little does he know, that's the ship (Millennium Falcon) carrying the galactic heroes that he aspires to become part of. Well done, RJ. Well done.

That's my two centavos. Can't wait to watch the movie again!

 

I will start of with what I thought the weaknesses of this film. 10-15 mins cut from this film and it would be close to flawless. The effects on Canto Bight during the chase in particular was the weakest in the film. It was nice to see Maz back but she could have skipped this one and been used to find Lando hopefully in Episode 9. That is my cons. The pros is everything else! Every major character is changed by the end of this movie. The resistance is change, the first order is changed, and the Star Wars universe is change. Luke’s admission of the Jedi Orders failures and how he refuses to face his failures is touching in so many ways. Luke once said I am not afraid and Master Yoda reply was you will be. This movie remembers all that and SHOWS US THAT NOT TELL US. The scene with Yoda was magical and he continues to teach Luke. This movie is full of goosebumps moments but every one of them are earned. I could write pages about this movie. Kylo kept his promise and finished what Vader has started. He is the master, Vader wanted to be when he asked Padme to join him. Rey is now the last Jedi the hope that Luke once was. Luke has become the most powerful Jedi and has become one with the force. Amazing film! I could type so much more but who is going to read all of that. 9/10 Loved it!

 

Murdering people in their sleep is something Darth Sidious would do. It is not something Luke Skywalker would do. It is the way of the SIth, not of a Jedi much less a Jedi like Luke who has overcome worse. He would not regress into making such an uncharacteristic decision. He would have grown from his previous trials.

Instead of trying to see what was troubling Ben and try to help him *like he did with the already evil Vader at great risk to his own life and that of the Rebellion itself*, Rian Johnson thought it in character for him to be tempted to kill his own troubled nephew in his sleep before he fell to the Dark SIde out of fear....? Luke Skywalker, who lost his aunt, his uncle, his friends, his hand and *who still couldn't kill the man responsible for it* would kill his on nephew in his sleep? No way. Reprehensible artistic direction.

Completely out of character, and it ruins the legendary heroic ethos of Luke Skywalker forever. This is the main reason why TLJ has the lowest audience scores of any SW film ever. Rian Johnson took a terrible gamble and lost.

Also, Luke leaves a map to find him and then doesn't want to be found?

Nonsensical.

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Rey's story is anticlimactic. It was laudable for Rian Johnson to instill the concept that greatness can come from humble origins, but it completely sucks you out of the central storyline. It completely drains the drama, rendering the viewer with no emotional connection to this character in the context of this epic.

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The throne room scene with Snoke was well done, I thought. There are a lot of complaints on how Snoke went out, but I was truly shocked and loved the battle scene afterwards. It is the way of the Dark Side, shown to us truly for the first time on screen where an apprentice kills his master.

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Leia should have died floating in space. I get it, where they were going with it. Her tremendous power in the Force, unseen before now. She looked angelic pulling herself back to the ship with the Force, but they totally ruined what would have been the perfect sendoff where her son Ben couldn't go through with it. Just completely ridiculous.

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People are complaining about Finn and Rose, but I actually liked Rose. I thought her character (as cheesy as it is to say) was sweet. I wish Finn would've went out taking out the ram cannon, though. It would've been the perfect sendoff for him, but they ruined the emotion of the moment by having Rose knock him out of the way (and I knew that was coming before it happened... it seemed telegraphed and obvious).

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I love the porgs! They're adorable.

That scene with them guilting Chewie was hilarious, and I'm as much a carnivore as he is.

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I didn't find the casino scene as bad as many others seem to, although the overt politicizing in a Star Wars film was reprehensible and off-putting. They really hit you over the head with it rather than be more subtle about it.

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Admiral Holdo's character was terrible, but she redeemed herself with that incredible hyperspace scene of mass destruction.

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Can someone explain why the First Order constantly loses battles?

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The Knights of Ren were missed.

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Adam Driver is the best actor in this series. He is incredible in his role as Kylo Ren.

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I'm going to another screening on Wednesday (my birthday) with my wife who hasn't seen it yet. As time goes on from my initial screening at the premiere showing last Thursday, I have become increasingly antipathetic about TLJ.

Instead of reinventing the wheel, they broke the wheel.

 

I will start of with what I thought the weaknesses of this film. 10-15 mins cut from this film and it would be close to flawless. The effects on Canto Bight during the chase in particular was the weakest in the film. It was nice to see Maz back but she could have skipped this one and been used to find Lando hopefully in Episode 9. That is my cons. The pros is everything else! Every major character is changed by the end of this movie. The resistance is change, the first order is changed, and the Star Wars universe is change. Luke’s admission of the Jedi Orders failures and how he refuses to face his failures is touching in so many ways. Luke once said I am not afraid and Master Yoda reply was you will be. This movie remembers all that and SHOWS US THAT NOT TELL US. The scene with Yoda was magical and he continues to teach Luke. This movie is full of goosebumps moments but every one of them are earned. I could write pages about this movie. Kylo kept his promise and finished what Vader has started. He is the master, Vader wanted to be when he asked Padme to join him. Rey is now the last Jedi the hope that Luke once was. Luke has become the most powerful Jedi and has become one with the force. Amazing film! I could type so much more but who is going to read all of that. 9/10 Loved it!

 

Luke didn’t murder anyone in his sleep. He didn’t even try to. The Dark Side called out to a male family member with Dark Side tendencies and he zoned out and instinctively actuated his saber. The Kylo Ren vision was a lie to plant doubt into Rey based on Ben’s interpretation of the memory.

 

It's only been a few days, and I'm already at my wit's end with some of the fatuous criticisms of this excellent film. Some rebuttals:

1. The "desecration" of Luke's character: He's old, isolated, and riven by guilt for a momentary lapse. Over two-and-a-half hours, he reluctantly re-engages, and heroically sacrifices himself to protect both the Resistance and the next generation of Jedi (and with a mode of death brilliantly foreshadowed by Kylo himself earlier in the film). What could be more fitting? THIS IS NOT A LUKE STORY. It's about Rey, Kylo, Finn, and Poe. If you don't like those characters, fine--watch something else. I love the new characters. Watching a powerful, austere Luke train Rey with confidence, move mountains, and crush Kylo like a bug would have been boring. I can watch The Karate Kid on AMC if I want that.

2. "Throw-away villains--Snoke and Phasma were a waste!": This criticism is particularly risible. In the OT, Palpatine wasn't even named (outside of Alan Dean Foster's novelization) until the third film, and he had, what, 15 minutes of screen time over two films? Was he a "throw-away?" And what about Boba Fett? If he had more than 10 minutes of screen time, I'll eat my own head. His character development was exactly zero--and his death is pathetic (using a TLJ critic's metric). And yet those villains are somehow well-rounded and great? (Don't get me wrong, I love both). The vast majority of the mythology and romanticism surrounding both came post-facto, in EU novels, comic books, and, in Palpatine's case, the PT. Give it some time--both villains will be amply fleshed-out in other media.

3. "This doesn't feel like a Star Wars film--Rian Johnson hates Star Wars fans!": At least this criticism has some validity--TLJ is very different. And a good thing, too! If this were another "re-hash," as many damned TFA as, the fan haterade would have been truly colossal. People also forget something--TESB was roundly condemned for being too different from ANH, by both fans and critics. And people voted with their feet--it made a fraction of A New Hope's box office in 1980. I'm old enough to remember some of my friends HATING it--no last battle, unhappy ending, boring, etc., etc. Today it's almost universally acknowledged as the best in the canon--but only with distance, because the film was simply ahead of its time. Did Irvin Kershner, Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan "hate Star Wars fans?" Of course not. I suspect The Last Jedi will age with similar grace.

4. "Now I don't give hoot what happens in Episode IX--the trilogy ended with part 2!": This criticism makes no sense to me--except in the context of those fans who don't like Rey, Kylo, et al. And fair enough--I guess they'll be skipping Episode IX in two years (except they won't, unfortunately for all of us who love this trilogy). I, for one, and I suspect many others share my view, am all-in on how the Rey-Kylo conflict will play out. Will both train their own respective apprentices? Are Kylo's Knights of Ren still out there, kept safely away from Snoke's influence? (Luke did mention that Kylo left with a "handful" of his students--that's gotta be them). How will Finn and Poe mount a new Rebellion? JJ Abrams has an opportunity to close out this ST in a completely unexpected and novel way--and the mystery box tid-bids that he will leak over the next 24 months will ensure the stoking of fan fervor, just as he did with TFA. Most will follow the clues avidly, because, hey, we're Star Wars fans!

Both the best and worst thing that ever happened to Star Wars fandom (and politics, and simple civility) was the advent of the internet--once upon a time, haters could be readily ignored. Now, that's not so easy--every hater can use this forum and others to bloviate absurdly, and go online to skew polls (re: RT audience score). Alas, the internet is the biggest, most egalitarian bully pulpit in history--for both good and ill. *sigh* And I wonder why I come to this forum less and less frequently...now I'm off to see TLJ for the third time!

 

I was blamed for writing walls of text in defense of characters I like previously. Seeing someone's else walls of text not in line with my attitude delivered me a spark of understanding why. So, a long story short. ​

Excellent movie. Wot? Whatever. Excellent movie. Keep going, Mr. Johnson. My review is over. ​

 

Some thoughts about this thing....

I don’t know who the old guy was playing Luke but it was bad casting. He looked nothing like the guy from TFA.

Couldn’t understand the Porgs and with no subtitles it seemed pretentious. Like how are we supposed to know what they’re saying?!

I get he fell down the Death Star shaft and landed on his face but CG still didn’t work for Palpatine, he looked nothing like from ROTJ. It was dumb they call him Smoke now. Yeah we get it he disappeared like smoke.

It wasn’t believable that Rey could clone herself so many times and then when she leaves the planet she doesn’t convince a single clone to help the resistance? Like are you serious? How hard can it be to convince yourself to do anything?!

I didn’t get what they were going for with the weird “don’t damage the earth” environmental hogwash showing the final planet bleeding when it gets shot. Like we get it, global warming. Don’t eat animals.

I’m going to rewatch Rogue One at home to try to understand how this movie makes sense when literally Leia aged like 100 years in the last 12 months? And suddenly there’s no Death Star when we just saw it the last movie? I don’t get this franchise

 

I need to see the movie again but overall I liked it and interestingly enough my wife (who hasn't even seen TFA and isnt really into SW) actually liked it enough to want to watch TFA. My kids loved it.

Right now I think it was better than TFA (it was certainly more interesting and original), but probably not quite as good as ROTJ (in fact it reminded me of ROTJ in a few ways... some of the same types of strengths and weaknesses).

It's certainly not the best Disney SW film which is easily the great Rogue One (which is IMO the 2nd best SW film ever made after TESB).

The good:

Kylo Ren - One of the best SW characters period and Adam Driver is just fantastic

Luke - Fantastic performance by Hamill and a completely fitting path and ending for Luke. Reading through the forum I feel like many people simply didn't see ROTJ or at least didn't pay attention to it. Luke having one last hurrah with his lightsaber would be wildly out of character. This is literally the character that won by NOT fighting... which is EXACTLY what happened at the end of TLJ. Also, people need to pay attention more when they watch films - Luke was never going to murder Kylo (although Kylo thought he was going to).... He simply saw something inside Kylo that startled/freaked him out so much that he ignited his saber (perhaps his first awareness of Snoke)... but the moment quickly passed. Also - I LOVED how he tossed the lightsaber away at the beginning... it's the exact same kind of thing Yoda would do. The one niggle I have is that they didn't really ever explain everything he was doing on that island and why the map existed.

Rey - Good character, good performance. I'm glad her parents are no one.... more interesting that way.

Poe - Good character, good performance

Killing Snoke - I loved this. It was awesome to actually see Kylo not endlessly talk about overthrowing his master, but to just freaking do it.

The saber fight - freaking awesome

The force stuff in general - I thought all the jedi/force/luke/rey/kylo/snoke/yoda/etc stuff was all really well done

Holdo's suicide run - one of the best visual shots in any SW film period

Acting - in general the acting and direction continues to be very good in the ST

Leia - Good performance - the force powers thing didn't bother me.... she is anakin's daughter after all.

Porgs!!!!!!

The bad:

Finn - Honestly he's kind of a useless character, who cares

Rose - Not really an interesting character, who cares

Canto Blight - boring and and should have been cut. In fact the whole sub plot involving the silly idea to board the star destroyer, crack codes and disable a breaker was stupid and should have been cut

Maz Cameo - um yeah, that just didn't work


The Meh:

World Building - This has been a problem in the entire ST.... the galaxy just doesn't feel as big as it should. This isn't a Disney problem in general IMO, as the world building in Rogue One was great.

The Resistance - There are some highs like Poe, but I just don't care about the resistance as much as I cared about the rebels in the OT..... I had similar issues with the Jedi in the PT, they just weren't as interesting as they could have been.

The First Order - Some cool stuff, but again.... don't care about them as much as I should (Phasma - meh)...other than Kylo Ren (and Snoke, who I found interesting before he was killed). Again reminds me of some PT issues where basically all the non-Sidious bad guys were forgettable.




I kind of feel like overall that the ST has always had a really good idea of what to do with new force users and the entire plotting around those force users.... but the reistance/first order stuff seems kind of thrown together and not as well thought out. Good characters, mostly great execution, but could use some better world building.

My opinions may change once I see the film again... Pretty sure I'm never going to care about the Canto Blight stuff much, but there's a lot going on with the Luke/Rey/Kylo/Snoke stuff and I think there's more to appreciate there.

 

He doesn't actually say that, of course. Why would the director of a Star Wars movie actually verbalize that sentiment?

I think the argument, among some fans at least, is that the movie itself is a 2-hour-35-minute demonstration not of hatred so much, but of a failure to understand some, if not much, of what makes Star Wars special.

Mark Hamill once said he disagreed with Rian about almost everything in the TLJ script. Now that I've seen the movie, I understand what he meant.

 

You always think as a fan....they must know better, they're highly paid professionals, we're just armchair critics. That all the ideas we could think of they've already thought up and there's a massive think-tank going on where they see all ideas and understand why things could and couldn't work.

Often that's right. But often you see you are wrong, that indeed they're stupid. Like when a football organization hires all the wrong coaches and signs the wrong players, not the players you like, and then you see that organization become a laughing stock and those people fired. Or when someone in a high position has to publicly admit they were wrong about something....be it a politician, owner, CEO, director, etc.

If we're right tho, that THEY know better. Then all I can think is things are moving along exactly to plan...

Ep 7 -- echoes a lot of the OT, something hardcore fanboys can associate with, same as it ever was
Ep 8 -- tear that all down, kill the tropes, mythology, tie ins, so we can take SW beyond those limits
Ep 9 -- something that furthers the goals of Ep8's agenda, whilst also killing off remaining OT characters, droids, wookie, etc.

Thus, RJ's new Trilogy to bring in a whole new era of SW, no Skywalkers, Jedi, Sith, lightsabers, TIEs, etc. But something they've perhaps already envisioned, able to bring in more elements from other movie franchises, fantasy and sci-fi genres.

When a "franchise" ceases being what it is, it becomes just like everything else. A hybrid, no longer special/unique, with clearly defined aspects that set it apart, that form a basic resonance of a franchise's identity.

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My new SW Rankings....

Tier One -- ANH, TESB
Tier Two -- R1, ROTS
Tier Three -- TPM, AOTC, ROTJ
Tier Four -- TFA, TLJ

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Disney should hire Gareth Edwards to write and direct more SW

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Rian Johnson trying to be super different. And/or Disney/LFL complicit in his intent.

Basically, the film veers away from classic SW tropes and mythology. Johnson doesn't understand SW in his treatment of who/what Luke Skywalker is. He broke everything JJ Abrams tried to set this franchise up for, with call backs and tie ins to the OT. Johnson ignored or pulled away from all that. There are no space battles, ground battles, lightsaber duels, "I have a bad feeling about this", and all the other things that identify and resonate with this pre-established franchise. The actual storyline itself is poorly written. The basic plot and sub-plots. There is no scope to it. It's a slow-speed chase thru space, with a lot of deus ex machinas, plot holes, and unessential plot threads. The film is littered from start to finish with far too much silly humor, inappropriate to the situation, or character, far too much flippancy while trying to be deep. Doesn't work at all.

Cinematography-wise -- there are a number of fantastic shots and sequences, but largely Johnson tries to be too stylistic, with awkward camera angles and constant jarring close-ups. The breadth isn't there.

Acting-wise -- Adam Driver is magnificent, so is Mark Hamill. Oscar Isaac pulls off his role. And Daisy Ridley has her shining moments too.

The film on first viewing is a major disappointment. Jarring. Shocking. The film on second viewing is better. You really do need two views to get a good grasp of exactly how this movie sits with you, as a long-time SW fan. But the end result is that it's a big letdown.

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No lightsaber on lightsaber duels. No DUEL between lightsaber wielding foes. RJ was clever in his trolling of fans where the only duel was the Kylo vs Hologram Luke, where lightsabers never interact. It's there, but as a non-real form. Also, the flashback sequence, where it was a flashback duel, and not even a duel, but a guard put up.

No space battles. There wasn't an actual war on show. You saw FO destroy a resistance base. No firing back. You saw one x-wing shoot out some canons. Some TIEs chase after it and get shot. You see tons of x-wings get blown up in that sequence. And the bombs away destruction of a dreadnought. Much of the movie was the slow-speed chase, where there was no fighting back, FO just picking off transports. You saw Kylo and some TIEs without resistance disable the cruiser. Finally, the Crait battle was all these huge war machines lined up to blow down the door. That was it. Those old Crait jets were racing in towards the big canon, but there was no firing from them. Getting picked off, they flee.

No cut off limbs. As in, a trope. Usually a protoganist gets a limb cut off. Like Kylo or Rey getting their right arm severed in a duel with each other.

No "I have a bad feeling about this". That it's in droidspeak is again clever RJ way of trolling SW fans.

Reminder---the name of the franchise is Star Wars. It's about the eternal war between good and evil. Between an army and another. Between a protagonist and an antagonist. A mystic wizard on one side, and another mystic wizard on the other side. Where certain things resonate/repeat/cycle from movie to movie. It's a franchise, meaning certain things must form a structure. Like the franchise Jurassic Park is all about dinosaurs chasing humans. Where Rocky is all about a David-vs-Goliath boxing story. Where Aliens is all about that creature being a host in a human, and picking humans off. Etc with franchises like Harry Potter, Sin City, 300, etc etc.

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On IMDB after 94000 respondents, s it’s averaging 8.0.

Much of that is paid ratings.

If you read actual User Reviews, and tally their scores and average it out, you'd be looking at a score significantly lower.

There are only 2,000 user reviews on IMDB, a few of them are 8 / 10, but the vast majority are between 1 and 5.

Rotten Tomatoes, user ratings only, is at %57. Meaning 5.7 / 10 rating in IMDB terms.

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It'll definitely have an effect that Disney will feel. Here's how....

Solo anthology will release, all these OT fans will not go on release, they'll wait for early reviews and actual plot spoilers to see how bad/good it is. Let's say it's bad. The ticket sales for that will be epic bad.

In the lead up to IX, again, all these pissed off fans, which are really tens of millions worldwide, will again wait for reviews and the full plot spoilers before bothering to go, to pre-buy release date tickets.

Disney are going to feel the loss in dollars, after the completion of Solo and IX, rounding off the first four years of Disney's ownership. A huge peak for TFA, R1, and early TLJ ticket sales, but then a significant drop off with ongoing TLJ ticket sales, Solo and IX. They'll see numbers we won't see. They'll see hundreds of millions of dollars dip from the first three releases to the last two slated releases. And it will have them worried enough to come up with a solution.

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The best thing I can say about TLJ is that there's more re-watchability factor in it than TFA. But not as much re-watchability factor as R1.

Judging the three Disney SW movies among themselves. R1 is clearly the best. TFA is better than TLJ in that it's a very easy to watch simple adventure story akin to ANH, but it lacks the specialness/originality/fun of ANH, so it becomes easily a boring film to watch again. It isn't as fun and charming.

TLJ on the other hand is hotly controversial, but has a number of layers to it that one can certainly re-watch, to glean more from it. But it's definitely the weakest of the three in terms of fun/adventure/charm.

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Rian Johnson is quite immature. He thinks his big cliff-hanger is fans wondering whether Rey gets with Kylo or Poe, after seeing how Finn is fawning over the injured Rose in the Falcon. Focused on amping up the "who will win Rey's affections" topic, rather than actual meaty topics.

 

I have no clue what Johnson thinks of TFA, but to me TLJ at least felt like a film made by someone who had noticeably different creative priorities than Abrams. That's a big reason I enjoyed it overall.

 

This is a good ranking and mirrors my own feelings.

It's a new Star Wars movie, and that's always exciting.

I enjoyed sitting in the theater and watching the opening scroll with fellow fans. Hearing the John Williams theme, all of that. And of course, I'll be there for the next one.

But this was a disappointment.

 

JJ Abrams understood the essence of Han Solo and built the first film of the new trilogy mostly around him, and made his death meaningful Freaky Johnson used the Luke character to voice his displeasure about the Jedi and the religious elements of SW, and then sacrificied him in a lame-FAKE standoff

 

Just watched it at 1540 on a Sunday afternoon. Packed screening.

I always need a second viewing when a new Star Wars film comes out. This second viewing has cemented just how much I love this film. Genuinely up there with Empire and ANH for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

https://www.allmovie.com/movie/star-wars-the-last-jedi-v603309/review

2 stars out of 5 at allmovie ! 2 stars out of 5 at allmovie !

not afraid to state the obvious!

 

Yeah, I've been thinking about that a LOT in the past couple of days. It's possible Leia knew he was "projecting" when he spoke to her, kissed her head etc... But how do we explain handing her Han's dice?

And also would 3PO (being a machine) be able to "see" a force projection?

Did I "jump the shark" with my four star TLJ review?

 

It's no longer called jumping the shark, it's now called milking the monster. Thanks Kathleen

 

I will post a more detailed review later. I left the theater the first time very conflicted. I liked it, but I couldn't even begin to rate/place it.

Saw it a second time last night. LOVED it.

 

Saw it yesterday and loved it minus two things, some of the humor not only did not land with me but was cringe bad, (im looking at the milk scene, with luke directly in the eye), and the leia flying thing while looked cool was a bit odd. Other than that I think the movie is awesome and up there to me with ESB and TFA. Instead of echoing so many of the positive reviews I want to pt out two things that I liked that a lot of folks have problems with.

1. Snoke- For the record I thought snoke was kind of lame in TFA, I got a very stereotypical vibe form him, he could have been any big baddie from any scfi/fantasy film, but after TLJ I love Snoke. He has my favorite scene in the movie. When he dresses down kylo at the start of the film, I fell in love with him. When he tells kylo that he thought he found a skywalker with that great bloodline and yet he was bested by a nobody bc he was so conflicted all the time. This also helps with those that had problems with the snow battle between him and rey in 7, So kylo was not only shot with chewy's bow but killing Han did not help him like he thought it would. Finally when snoke tells him to take off that stupid mask and quit playing dress up he had completely won me over. Plus loved how the charcter looked, not cgi at all and andy serkis should win an oscar for playing ceaser in planet of the apes, so he is dang good actor and brings life to snoke. I also love how the throne room looks and what he wears, to me snoke has more Jabba in him than the emperor. What I mean is I could totally see him having slave sex girls and just wanting all the power and control like Jabba where the emperor was more about maintaining order and control in the galaxy. Would I like to see more backstory with snoke, yes for sure and I will be the first in line to read that book, watch that show, or play that game that explores that. Im also not totally convinced we are done with snoke. Much like luke, kylo also tried to cut down snoke with anger so he could still be in kylo's head; plus he set up that link between kylo and rey. Just why quck fan theory lol.

2. Finn story line aka canto bight- For most folks that either loved the movie or hated it, they all dont like this part. Well I disagree, I do think it probably the weakest of the 3 story lines but that doesnt mean its bad to me. The biggest complaint is it feels too much like earth, I didnt get earth vibes, I got PT vibes like the 50s looking diner in TPM. I think it was a nice ode to George and how he brightened up the PT; so Rian brightened up Canto. The other big complaint was that the mission was a failure and a waste of time, which in a way was true. But as obi wan says in ROTJ from a different perspective the truth can be something else as well. So did the mission work, thats a big no, but it pushed finn's story arc over the hump, he is no longer in this just for Rey, (who I think he was falling for at the end of TFA), but now after hearing what DJ said, and what Rose said and did he now is truly rebel scum. Thats why I also like the DJ scene as well he peaks behind the curtains and shows finn that its not all black and white. Plus this storyline also directly effects storyline number 2 which was Poe's rise to leadership, lets not forget it was poe who oked the mission of rose and finn to begin with bc he thought he always knew best. Once again just my two cents

 

THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS!

This was more Harry Potter than Star Wars. No Jedi could ever do any of the things seen in TLJ: Leia's resurrection, surviving in space, flying through space. Rey & Ren sit down telepathic conversations. Luke's interactive hologram. Yoda's Force ghost interfering by destroying the Jedi books/tree.

Imagine any of the OT with these new Harry Potter powers!
In ANH Obi Wan's would have used an interactive hologram to kill Vader in the lightsaber fight on the Death Star; become a Force Ghost from exhaustion & then Obi Wan's Force Ghost would have blown up the Death Star.
In ESB Yoda would have had a telepathic sit down with Vader to provide psychiatric counseling.
In ROTJ when Vader threw Palpatine down the reactor pit, he'd have floated out and laughed AFTER the Death Star blows up.

Turn off your brains. RJ ended the Star Wars universe.

 

Saw it yesterday and loved it minus two things, some of the humor not only did not land with me but was cringe bad, (im looking at the milk scene, with luke directly in the eye), and the leia flying thing while looked cool was a bit odd. Other than that I think the movie is awesome and up there to me with ESB and TFA. Instead of echoing so many of the positive reviews I want to pt out two things that I liked that a lot of folks have problems with.

1. Snoke- For the record I thought snoke was kind of lame in TFA, I got a very stereotypical vibe form him, he could have been any big baddie from any scfi/fantasy film, but after TLJ I love Snoke. He has my favorite scene in the movie. When he dresses down kylo at the start of the film, I fell in love with him. When he tells kylo that he thought he found a skywalker with that great bloodline and yet he was bested by a nobody bc he was so conflicted all the time. This also helps with those that had problems with the snow battle between him and rey in 7, So kylo was not only shot with chewy's bow but killing Han did not help him like he thought it would. Finally when snoke tells him to take off that stupid mask and quit playing dress up he had completely won me over. Plus loved how the charcter looked, not cgi at all and andy serkis should win an oscar for playing ceaser in planet of the apes, so he is dang good actor and brings life to snoke. I also love how the throne room looks and what he wears, to me snoke has more Jabba in him than the emperor. What I mean is I could totally see him having slave sex girls and just wanting all the power and control like Jabba where the emperor was more about maintaining order and control in the galaxy. Would I like to see more backstory with snoke, yes for sure and I will be the first in line to read that book, watch that show, or play that game that explores that. Im also not totally convinced we are done with snoke. Much like luke, kylo also tried to cut down snoke with anger so he could still be in kylo's head; plus he set up that link between kylo and rey. Just why quck fan theory lol.

2. Finn story line aka canto bight- For most folks that either loved the movie or hated it, they all dont like this part. Well I disagree, I do think it probably the weakest of the 3 story lines but that doesnt mean its bad to me. The biggest complaint is it feels too much like earth, I didnt get earth vibes, I got PT vibes like the 50s looking diner in TPM. I think it was a nice ode to George and how he brightened up the PT; so Rian brightened up Canto. The other big complaint was that the mission was a failure and a waste of time, which in a way was true. But as obi wan says in ROTJ from a different perspective the truth can be something else as well. So did the mission work, thats a big no, but it pushed finn's story arc over the hump, he is no longer in this just for Rey, (who I think he was falling for at the end of TFA), but now after hearing what DJ said, and what Rose said and did he now is truly rebel scum. Thats why I also like the DJ scene as well he peaks behind the curtains and shows finn that its not all black and white. Plus this storyline also directly effects storyline number 2 which was Poe's rise to leadership, lets not forget it was poe who oked the mission of rose and finn to begin with bc he thought he always knew best. Once again just my two cents

 

To all who love this film and think of it as a masterpiece, I am wondering. Do you think that the numerous plot holes are a problem? I am being serious and I am not trying to insult those who love it. I am trying to like this movie and I will see it again to soak more in. At this point I am willing to give it a 3 out of 5. I just cannot get over how the Finn story thread goes nowhere. Am I missing something? Cheers.