Star Wars too realistic now?

Interesting thought I had that I can't go too into.

But it ocurred to me that part of the problem with the Clone Wars I was having was that individuals haven't really done anything 'overthetop' and the Dark Jedi aren't really that dark.

As in cackling black robed Satanist types

More precisely they're just 'evil' Jedi. Ventress is the closest one to the "Star Wars" ideal and even she lacks some of the ovethetop panache of a Kueller or Tavion.

It just seems alittle too much like a regular war I think

 

No. I want it to be realistic. I hate it when stuff gets too black and white.

 

Welcome to Moral Relativism 101.

The one thing Star Wars shouldn't be.

It was one of the nice things about The Cestus Deception is that it really didn't focus any time on the moral relativism, and instead focused essentially solely on the Jedi and clonetroopers trying to save countless lives.

EDIT: Then why like Star Wars, may I ask?

 

After I posted I kept thinking about it. Like when a song gets stuck in your head. Even though you are done listening to it it's still there.

But if there is one thing I like about the PT it is that it isn't as clear cut. I personally cheer on the CIS. Because they are doing what is right in refusing to follow a corrupt Republic. It is too bad the Sith are playing them as suckers.

 

see, im kind of torn on this.....im reading shatterpoint now (im about halfway through) and all the moral relativism and uncertainty is bogging down the book a tad in my opinion, its still a great book, but i feel like all the agonizing by mace windu gets a little tedious, i feel like grabbing the front of his robe and shaking him being like "DO SOMETHING already!!"....but at the same time, i recently read i,jedi, and exar kun's portrayal in there was laughable, he was SO over the top cartoonishly evil, he should have been sitting there twirling his moustache and being like "ill get you corran horn.....and your little dog too!!!" so i think there has to be a happy medium, i like a little shades of grey, for example it turning out that thrawn was actually, in his own way, DEFENDING the galaxy when he joined palpatine....and needless to say, vader's shades of grey

 

What I like is Shatterpoint. You look at the shades of gray, you get told about the shades of gray, and you say "**** it. Evil exists; I'm going to fight it, and I'm going to do what's right and not doubt myself." In other words, the "Obi/Mace/Padme" type instead of the "Jacen Solo" type. Fight evil; don't be delusional and become evil.

Acknowledge the shades of gray, then do what's right. With a sense of humor and some action.

Oh. And more neutral characters, like TTT Pellaeon, some of the Chiss, Teren Rogriss, and Admiral Parck.

Edit: And so far, the best antagonist in the EU is Zsinj. Fun to read, fallible without being incompetent, and evil without being Exar/Palps evil. And not cold-blooded.

 

Yes, starwars is becoming too realistic for my tastes.

Death is fine, as long as it isn't used as the only element availible to advance a story. The NJO was obviously confused on what Starwars is really about.

Which isn't Mass destruction and death, gore, and trying to make no seperation between light and dark.

Delrey needs to sit down and watch the 5 movies, read the the marvel comics and WEG RPG material, and then they will see what is real Starwars.

 

I agree with Blithe, yes Clone Wars is 'realistic' about wars but at least it still feels like Star Wars to me, NJO just makes me deppressed and annoyed.

 

"Star Wars" is about people flying space ships and who have lightsabers and cool Force powers. It should be . . . most fantastical that it's been of late, IMO. It's not supposed to be all gritty and realistic. I mean, how many people do you know who can lift an X-wing with their mind?

Yes, I think it's too realistic.

Dana

 

Death is fine, as long as it isn't used as the only element availible to advance a story. The NJO was obviously confused on what Starwars is really about.

How? The NJO and the Clone Wars are the height of EU. They are showing us real war. Real pain. Do you want to read kids stories your entire life? Or do you want to grow up?

Which isn't Mass destruction and death, gore, and trying to make no seperation between light and dark.

Again Del Rey is treating the EU readers like adults. If you want to be treated like a kid pick up a Sholastic novel.

Delrey needs to sit down and watch the 5 movies, read the the marvel comics and WEG RPG material, and then they will see what is real Starwars.

No they don't. They need to treat us like adults. I don't want to be treated like a kid. Del Rey is real SW more real than WEG, Marvel or Sholastic. I don't want SW overflowing with sex and ****s. But it is Star Wars there is violence there is blood.

 

keep in mind, star wars tends to be viewed in rose colored glasses because we viewed it as kids, but its always been dark and full of violence and death. i mean:

1. episode 4: han blasts greedo point blank, obi wan graphically cuts an alien's arm off, burning skeletons, obi wan being sliced in half, implied torture, an assault on the death star in which only 2 x wings get out alive, an entire planet full of people getting blown to pieces, shall i go on?

2. episode 5: luke's hand being graphically sliced off, torture of a main character being shown right on screen, an ending in which the bad guys basically win and solo is frozen in carbonite, several graphic choking deaths by vader, etc.

the bottom line is, star wars has ALWAYS been filled with death, destruction, and loss. thats exactly what separates it from star trek in that when the characters are in danger, you never know what might happen. those of you who suddenly think its gotten worse, it hasnt, its just on a larger scale now. its no more or less realistic now then it was in the original trilogy

 

Del Rey is real SW more real than WEG, Marvel or Sholastic.

Well, actually, they're all equally real, because they're all C-canon.

 

How? The NJO and the Clone Wars are the height of EU. They are showing us real war. Real pain. Do you want to read kids stories your entire life? Or do you want to grow up?

Star Wars is Star Wars. You either believes the stories are timeless or you don't. If I want real war and real pain...well I would shoot myself. People who enjoy reading about that sort of thing need help in my opinion. I take no pleasure in those kind of stories.

Again Del Rey is treating the EU readers like adults. If you want to be treated like a kid pick up a Sholastic novel.

Stick to historical fiction then and do some halfway decent Pulp Adventures like it should be.

No they don't. They need to treat us like adults.

Are all adults in your world violent sadists?

I don't want to be treated like a kid.

Don't live in a socialist nation...(odd comment just to make)

Del Rey is real SW more real than WEG, Marvel or Sholastic.

No, because all three are real companies.

I don't want SW overflowing with sex and ****s. But it is Star Wars there is violence there is blood.

Yes, there is also magic and redemption along with clear good/evil with no attempt to really pretend otherwise

 

I already said, I am happy when in the movies, Star Wars is just a fairytale of black-white, bad-good.
But in the EU I want a realistic universe, a diverse universe with many POVs. I think if movies are black-white, it's up to the EU to give the "realism".
Up to now, some of the novels and comics, mostly of later time (not Marvel), could give me that. And - yes, I agree the Clone Wars era is getting more diverse and "not black & white". I like that too.

I like Ventress, BTW. She's not that "pure evil". She's hots and cool, it's just that she had a dark past, with that Jedi master of hers.

 

There is a difference between "realistic"(not quite the correct term, since I still like the fantastical aspects of Star Wars) and "real." Just because I like Shatterpoint does not mean I would want to run a few hundred yards down Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944.

I don't like rolling my eyes at how the villains just came out of nowhere with no apparent motivation. Kueller, for example: he's a former student of Luke's who failed in his training, and commits genocide. Not complex, really. That was a disturbing trend in the Bantam novels. Admittedly, the Vong were quite shallow at the beginning of the NJO; fortunately, however, there was enough time to go in-depth into their culture and deep-rooted motivations to invade the GFFA.

Palpatine and Vader have believable motivations. Palpatine is a composite of all the great dictators(Caesar, Hitler), who desires power and revenge. Vader is an emotionally unstable person who, through his experiences, also desires power and revenge. Even in the movies, villains are not clear-cut "evil"(especially Vader). The cookie-cutter villains from the Bantam run(with notable exceptions, of course) did NOT fit with the movies at all.

I don't see the argument against violence. The Bantam run, while it was a little more toned-down, still had graphic descriptions and sequences.(BFC, anyone?)

 

I don't have a thing against the violence. What I want is more cool Jedi stuff. I mean, there's tons of fantasy stuff in "Star Wars". Why are we shying away from that and getting more . . . I don't know, I can't explain it very well, but I think that we need more stuff like in TUF, the Jacen/Onimi stuff. Jedi spirits and stuff.

If I want to watch plain old warfare, I'll go watch the news.


Dana

 

Cookie-cutter villains are what I hate in EU... Kueller is a Sith-wannabe, obviously taken just for a few days of the book. His motivations are too simple. He doesn't appeal to the reader. More than that, the authors sometimes make a really good darksider, who looks like he has some own deep motives and etc., but then make him do something NOT fitting with his character just to make his actions unapologethic. I hate these tricks.

But I like the EU especially for it's restraint-free experiments. For venturing in the genres that are hardly applied to the "original" Star Wars, but interesting and unothrodox.
Like that Dark Journey from Star Wars Tales #17, it felt like a good old Hitchcock/King horror in a Star Wars setting. I loved that mix and they way they did it.

 

[More than that, the authors sometimes make a really good darksider, who looks like he has some own deep motives and etc., but then make him do something NOT fitting with his character just to make his actions unapologethic. I hate these tricks.]

Such as?

 

I would say Kyp Durron, to a degree(though he was not entirely himself throughout most of his "dark" actions, and everyone saw his fall to the darkside coming from a mile away).

 

i agree with the earlier poster as far as the unifying force being basically the perfect star wars book, it was the perfect mix of realism/violence, fantasy/jedi, cool older characters that we know and love, good new characters of the new generation, and good plot. that was realism without getting away from the spirit of star wars......and i would agree that the villains are really lacking overall in the EU, in 40+ novels we have managed to come up with all of 2 memorable, 3 dimensional cool villains: thrawn and the vong.

 

It's been as realistic since I've ANH for the first time.

wolf

 

[image=http://webpages.acs.ttu.edu/rschecke/images/CW9durge17.gif]

Realistic, you say?

 

What's up with Durge? He's just another common sci-fi element which made it into Star Wars. Regenerator.

 

But he's not particularly realistic.

 

As are unrealistic lightsabers, hyperspace and etc.

I thought we were speaking about the common realism. The realism of a person's portrayal (shifting more towards a complex display rather than "Bad-bad-guys vs. superheroes") and the realism in the socium (no "ideal" democracy, no ideal relationships).
Also the realistic violence, as someone noted. Earlier "Star Wars" kinda skipped on violence. The newer Dark Horse comics are quite brutal, if you ask me. So are the newer novels.