Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by darthamon, Nov 1, 2012.
that's some pretty good speculation there. I wouldn't be surprised at all
Wait, have I missed something? Why are we talking about Episode IX already? Have I accidently traveled into the future again?
I would love this to be the title of Ep VIII actually, and have this discovery lead to the final victory in IX. Lot of folks probably expect "Victory of the Force" to be the title for IX, but I next liked that much myself......
Would like to see all the Legend type concepts included as well. The jedi trials and a sith Inauguration cerominy would be pleasing as well
Live, Love, Learn & Laugh
The Journal of the Whills was a framing device that Lucas abandoned ages ago. It wouldn't make sense to use it in the ST all of a sudden, but then again, it is George Lucas.
There apparently is mentioned somewhere in an undated draft that Qui-Gon learned the power to become a ghost from the Shaman of the Whills.
Hence why we hear his voice in AotC and there is also a deleted scene in RotJ where Yoda talks to him:
222 INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT
On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.
YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...
QUI -GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
YODA: Eternal consciousness.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.
YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater than all, it is.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.
YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.
YODA thinks about this for a minute, then BAIL ORGANA enters the room and breaks his meditation.
BAIL ORGANA: Excuse me, Master Yoda. Obi-Wan Kenobi has made contact.
You can read the whole thing here: http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-Revenge-of-the-Sith.html
So it seems certain that Lucas did not forget about the Whills and he (intended to) mention them in the movies.
And it doesn't seem to be a coincidence that he mentioned them in the latest movie.
Perhaps the deleted scene (partially available on the Blu-Ray special disc) will be incorporated into the movie once the new trilogy is released.
That way it would seem a more natural addition than some random mentioning of the Whills in RotS.
I really hope the Whills (even just a mention of the name) play some sort of role in the ST.
I think that there may be more than just a mentioning of the Whills.
Plagueis tries to find a way to gain eternal life. Qui-Gon apparently learns from the Shaman of the Whills how to gain eternal life.
Lucas' original intention was to have R2 tell the entire story to a Whill, 100 years after the Battle of Endor. Is that possible? Remember that only C3P0 gets his memory erased in RotS. R2's is intact.
Prophecy of the Chosen One? Well, the concept of Whills became the Force, since before the final draft of Episode IV. So if there is someone to write such a Prophecy it would be the guys who are told to be the Force (also remember that since the concept of the Prophecy is vague - intentional or not - it has been brought up in the PT. But it is still vague, unexplained and unexplored - could that be some sort of foreshadowing?)
So there are clues left by Lucas here and there. It would make sense to have the ST be a conclusion to a trilogy of trilogies, where everything wraps up and we will be like "Oh, so that's what actually happened" or "Oh, so that's what X meant when he said @#$&%&#$".
Like LunarMoth, I find this idea intriguing.
Why in God's name that scene with Qui-Gon was left out is beyond me. Out of all the cuts in all the films, this one makes the least sense to me.
Considering that the titles for RotS and RotJ mention something Force-related (Sith and then Jedi), what is left? The Force and Whills.
I can't really think of many other Force-related words that are so important. It makes sense, though. Mention the bad guys, mention the good guys, then mention something that is in between (a "balancing" term between the Jedi and Sith).
Since Lucas introduced the concept of balancing the Force I can only think of two titles for Episode IX: Either "R... of the Force" or "R... of the Whills"
And even if the title contains the word Force, remember this quote from Lucas himself:
"Originally, I was trying to have the story be told by somebody else (an immortal being known as a Whill); there was somebody watching this whole story and recording it, somebody probably wiser than the mortal players in the actual events. I eventually dropped this idea, and the concepts behind the Whills turned into the Force.[...]"
So what if the Whills ARE the Force? Or the ultimate guardians, superior in almost every way to Jedi and Sith.
The Prophecy? Chosen One? Balance of the Force? Seems too big of a coincidence to me.
Later Edit: Remember Father, Son and Daughter from Mortis (TCW)?
Yes, it's a kid's show, but nonetheless Lucas offers input on the story ideas. It seems rather strange to introduce them in the show and dedicate several episodes to this idea. Qui-Gon's Force ghost also appears on Mortis.
(Spoiler) Son (incarnation of the Dark Side) kills Father. Qui-Gon mentions that a Shaman of the Whills found a way to cheat death. Could that be Father?
It clearly wasn't abandoned, though, as a pretty blatant mention of the Whills popped up in the ROTS script, which, relatively speaking, is quite recent. The scene was never shot, okay, but it was clearly something Lucas toyed with.
Taken from the Wiki Star Wars page...\
Um...would that not make a beautiful scene to end everything? C3PO looking on in the background...
The droids together in the end.
I don't know that the actual "Journal of the Whills," as we now understand it (with R2's retelling of the entire Skywalker saga to the 'Keeper'), is all that likely to make an appearance at the end of IX. This is not to say I'm against the idea, as the concept has fascinated me since I first read about it many years ago and I think a short scene at the end of the ST could serve as a fine little epilogue. At this point, I'm simply not all that convinced that the filmmakers will make it a reality.
What I really would like to see (and what I believe may stand a better shot of actually occurring) is the introduction of the Whills as a species to the story proper. Perhaps in the manner of Luke being visited by Obi, Yoda or Anakin (preferably Yoda, I'd imagine) and instructed to seek out one of these wise old Force sages for help? I realize this is essentially a role already filled by Yoda himself, but maybe the old Jedi Master knows that there are answers only a Whill can provide? Another thought is that Luke could use the Force to visit the Netherworld, and this is where he encounters a Whill? Almost any excuse to see the Netherworld of the Force and a Whill on screen is okay by me. It's an interesting question and it's one of George's early unused concepts that I'd like to see made a reality.
As an aside, I've been a SW fan since 1980/81 (around 5 years old) and I seem to recall first reading George's idea for R2 and the Keeper a long time ago (maybe even during my childhood) and I'm wondering, when were we first told of Lucas' vision for this?
Yes it was, at least the framing device that is The Journal of the Whills was. Whether or not a race called the Whills will be making an appearance in the ST is another story. The fact that Qui-Gon learned from a Shaman of the Whills is a clue that they are involved with the story now (speculation) and not detached observers/reporters as they were intended to be in the Journal of the Whills.
This is all very weird tho.
These are two different versions of "eternal life". The Sith seek a more corporeal form of continued existence.
The balance of the Force, however, is not a balance between Jedi and Sith.
my feeling is the whills were one of the first races in the galaxy, and they learned to completly master the force including becoming one with the force when they die.they then passed this on to the other races, but some raaces became corrupted and the whills decided not to share thier knowledge anymore. but that rouge jedi Qui Gon always believed in them and contacted them in death and learned their secrets. in the ST we will meet the whills and learn that there is life after death and this will help the hero accept loss.[ my feeling is han will die in EP VII and and Jacen/Jaina will try to learn as much about the force as possible to save their mother,including dabbling in the dark side, but wil learn at the end of the trilogy to let go, that death is the start of another journey]
Episode 7/8/9: These Films should have Luke as a Jedi master with a Jedi academy at his disposal. Leia should be a politician and Han solo should die within the first 20 minutes of the film. The films have to stay away from the sith as Vader fulfilled the prophecy in ROTJ. It should centre around the Yuuzhan Vong (who the jedI would still not be able to sense through the force. Also they should go a character redesign so they are force sensitive) invading the star wars galaxy causing Luke and the young JedI(who are in weak numbers) to team up with old friends such as lando and chewie and some enemies such as boba fett to try and defeat them. Leia And Han had twins a girl and a boy who are now 23 years old. The girl twin is a jedI and the boy is a pilot like his father. The Story should be about the twins with the older characters being more in the background this would allow a few separate stories. Unlike the prequels Love shouldn’t be at the foreground if it has to be in the films it should be low key remember this it Twilight!(****) but it also shouldn’t be a war film it needs good dialogue some humour ( r2 and 3po NOT jar jar) having the episodes like this would allow dark jedI to form in this trilogy or the next whilst keeping the sith out of the picture.
Sith: Right, now to something I think would be good for the star wars universe. I think we should have another prequel trilogy with palpatine’s life as the main story. Showing the sith before the rule of 2 (which would lead to some good sith and jedI fights) and how the rule of 2 was implemented, with the jedI order playing a secondary role for the first time in the star wars universe and focusing (mostly in the first film) on the war between the sith and the jedI with the 2nd and the 3rd being about palpatine/Darth Plagueis (with a spin off featuring darth Maul).
I also think there should be a Boba Fett spin off as has been mentioned in rumours and it should be Between ESB and ROTJ also a Darth Maul spin off Before Phantom Menace. And finally a Spin off of obi wan Between ROTS and ROTJ.
Everyone dies in a massive lens flare.
Luke shared a lot in common with Jesus. He was the son. The savior.
Now that he's ascended, I believe it would interesting to tell the story from the father's point of view. One of the most prominent themes of Star Wars was always "sins of the father...". Light cannot exist without the dark. Perhaps it is Luke's son, or Luke's apprentice that rejects Luke and rejects the light. The fallen angel that wages war on the father.
Open with the wedding of Jaina Solo and Jagged Fel where we are reintroduced to familiar characters in scenes that give a nod to the ceremonies at the end of Episodes IV and VI.
Cut then to late 45ABY and we see that these opening scenes were Leia Skywalker-Solo's (63) memories as she sits looking out of her window, she is missing her daughter and still mourning her sons..
We then see Han (74) and Allana (9) (who's backstory, along with the deaths of her father Jacen and uncle Anakin Solo is gradually explained in dialogue) enter and the movie kicks off properly from 45ABY onwards.
A new undislosed enemy has Allana kidnapped, though the reason why is initially a mystery.
With Jaina (36) away due to her husband's commitments, Leia calls on her brother Luke (63) to help who arrives with his son and apprentice Ben Skywalker (18)
Luke discovers a Sith prophecy about a female from the line of Vader and realises that Allana's abduction is a sign that a new Sith menace exists in the universe.
However, in using the Force to try and locate Allana's whereabouts, he discovers the existence of a 17 year old orphan girl (Chloe Grace Moretz) who it seems also has the blood of Vader flowing through her veins.
It turns out she, not Allana, is the child of the prophecy and is actually the daughter of Anakin Solo.
This, however, does nothing for the kidnapped Allana who is now in even more danger if the truth that she isn't the chld of the prophecy is revealed to her captor(s).
Luke leaves his newly discovered neice to begin her training with Leia and Ben whilst he and a handpicked group of Jedi (including amongst others the Wookie Lowbacca) set out to rescue Allana, later joined by a mysterious bounty hunter who turns out to be Jaina in disguise (working undercover due to her high profile as the wife of Jagged Fel).
Feeling responsible for Allana's capture, our new heroin sets off to try and aid in her rescue, pursued by Ben who eventually agrees to help her whereby they recruit a smuggling vessel to enable them to travel undetected.
Essentially Anakin Solo's daughter and Ben Skywalker would be the new Luke and Leia with Luke being elevated to Obi-Wan's mentor role.
Jaina becomes the strong female character that Leia was in the original trilogy with Leia herself taking on a senior role more akin to Mon Mothma in the original movies, albeit with a much more prominent status in both the narrative and the hearts of the audience.
Allana, as the target of the plot, would be close to the age of Anakin Skywalker in TPM, with her relationship with Ben mirroring the young Anakin's with Ob-Wan, and would fill the position of providing that empathic relationship with the younger audience, but the additional inclusion of Anakin Solo's daughter would dilute direct repitition of previous storylines.
Subsequent movies would then include the emergence of the Fel Empire, Jaina having to choose between her husband Jagged Fel and her allegiance to the Jedi Temple as Ben Skywalker struggles to take on his father's responsibilities following Luke's death, Allana trying to cope with the Dark Side influence that came about as the result of her kidnap, and the eventual reveal of the Sith who was behind it all ... perhaps it wasn't a kidnap at all, but the spirit of the deceased Caedus manipulating his daughter, in order to find the whereabouts of his brother's child who is the central heroin of this trilogy?
By the end of the third film we could se Allana, now in her 20s, fully overcome by the Dark Side taking on her cousins as they try to foil her plans to ressurect her father.
So do they have massive seizures? That would be a fairly difficult film to watch.
_ _ _ _
"Victory of The Force" doesn't sound like a good title to me.
These Wills sound a lot like the Protheans from the Mass Effect games. Am I right in thinking this?
I don't like it either, but it's one of those things thats been floating around for years. I'm not sure exactly where is came from.