Speculation Staying Away From Predictability...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by JaimePrater, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. JaimePrater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 1
    Okay...let's break it on down....

    I am hoping for A Sequel Trilogy in the spirit of the Classic Trilogy, hosting as much of the realness, and dialogue that Lucas some how managed to capture that first time out.

    Grit.
    There was a form to the dialogue in the CT, something about it that grounded itself in something everyone could relate to. It wasn't stuffy or overly eloquent. It was pitch perfect.

    Dark.
    Not BSG dark (don't be so literal folks) I can't imagine the first chapter of this new story being this nonchalant story, when in fact, we're returning to the Star Wars saga because something is not right with the force again. I would hope that the writer, and Kathleen Kennedy and the director will have the freedom to play up what caused ESB to be so great without feeling like they have to follow formula to the letter.
    Last edited by JaimePrater, Jan 5, 2013
  2. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Sorry, I was referring to the posts above yours. You must've squeezed that in when I was posting:



    Why can't it be both dark and gritty AND be about hope?
    spicer and Count Yubnub like this.
  3. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    The OT didn't have any "realness." It was grounded in myths and fairy tales, set in a universe based on 1930s-40s pulp space opera serials.

    As for the dialogue, the OT dialogue (like the PT dialogue) was stylized to fit the universe, as many people including the actors have commented on in one way or another.


    Where did you manage to find this "fact"? Also, I'd like to remind you that ANH was a lighthearted and fun adventure despite the fact that it was set in an era of oppression by a totalitarian, dictatorial government.
  4. JaimePrater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 1
    Count Yubnub....you're free to think about it however you wish....but let's avoid condescension if at all possible.

    Realness. There was a way in which the lines were delivered, by Fisher, by Ford, Hamill, and the rest that felt 'authentic' 'real' 'genuine' as opposed to stilted, or disjointed. Again, my comments are not to be taken for face value, if you look at it from another point of view....
  5. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    My sincere apologies. I wasn't trying to be condescending but I understand how I might have come across as such. Obviously you're entitled to your opinion and obviously it's just as valid as mine.


    But Lucas himself has stated that the dialogue is supposed to be very stylized. And both Fisher and Ford have commented many times on how unrealistic the dialogue is. For instance, Ford's statement "You can write this stuff but you can't say it" (by which he meant, you can write it on paper but it's difficult for an actor to say it and make it seem believable) is quite famous, and Fisher repeatedly pokes fun at the lack of realism in the dialogue on the DVD commentary.
  6. JaimePrater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 1
    Yes, I've read as much and I can imagine saying "may the force be with you" with a straight face was probably a bit much back in the day. The larger point is...there's a sense of full character to them. They're rude, they're mean, they're naive, they're scared...we see all of it...and t he actors played it where eve to this day...I buy it.
    Darth kRud, Force Smuggler and Dra--- like this.
  7. Lando's Little Maneuver Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I'm just really hopefully that the themes are a little more relatable this time. Padme never seemed in any danger in rots until Anakin started choking her, there was never any sense of urgency. If she had been sick and dying in the Mace, Sidious, Anakin scene it would have been so much more believable. I know had his dream and all, but it just didn't translate that she was actually in any immediate danger.

    Also I hope the Jedi aren't such massive nerds this time around. It seemed that George wanted them to be so freakin austere all the time, that they lacked any humanity. Obi Wan and Yoda were kind of cool, but Windu seemed like a massive jerk most of the time and the less said about Anakin the better.
  8. JaimePrater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 1
    The Pt just failed to resonate in terms of character. The story wasn't the problem...it was the execution. Here's to a righting of that wrong in a couple of years!
    Dra--- likes this.
  9. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Wait, our fan card gets taken away if we like the prequels? I didn't know that! Who made up those rules?
  10. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Indeed!
  11. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    You know what would be unpredictable? Five minute Hutt-centric romantic comedy "meet cute" opening scene. That is what would be truly unexpected as opposed to more grim n' grit.
  12. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I'll second that!!!

    I'll also say this: Lots of people say that the PT ruined Star Wars. I beg to differ, even though I don't think they were up to snuff (I didn't hate them either). For me, the PT served as a long awaited visualization of the cool things we heard about as kids in regard to Anakin, Obi, and Boba Fett. I don't know where I first got the info, but as a kid I was aware of the story about Obi and Anakin sabering it out in a volcano and that Boba Fett was somehow involved with the Clone Wars. The PT finally let me see these things happen. The story was great. The execution, as you mention, was not. I think one thing that made solid execution tough is the fact that we already knew the outcome of things and IMO that made TPTB try too hard with other aspects instead of just telling the story.

    At the end of the day, the PT served it purpose, but now on to bigger and better things. The ST is what they need to get right!
  13. Yodahasgreenfeet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    No...just no, I don't need more darker , grittiness ... no. This isn't the Dark Jedi. No, no, just no.

    In my opinion that's a terrible idea. Ths is Star Wars, it doesn't have to be darker, grittier. If you want something darker, grittier then watch a film that tries way too hard to be adult and to be taken seriously like the new batman films.

    I'm all for a film saga with its dark moments but I don't need more of that fruit cake dark **** that is mistaken as content for a more mature audience. The two are not interchangeable and not every film that comes out needs to be trendy and have a "dark tone". Not everthing needs a darker spirit.

    Make it darker, grittier, is unexpected? HAHAHA HAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA, please. They are making everything darker and grittier . Superman looks as if it has gotten the same over haul. I guess I disagree...
    FRAGWAGON and DarthRelaxus like this.
  14. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    When you do something that is dark and gritty in episodic nature. Its usually something that you have earned by creating characters that you care about. But to arbitrarily make a story dark in tone, off the bat, is worst possible approach you can apply to Star Wars
  15. DarthRelaxus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2007
    star 4
    FYI
    The Anakin/Obi-wan duel was mentioned in the ROTJ novel, the Boba Fett/clone wars reference was in the TESB novel. I'm also glad that we got to see those things.
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Would you rather have Episode 7 be light or dark? Give the heroes a win so that the writers can screw them over in 8 all they want. Give us a good reason to get invested in the movie. Not to say Episode 4 was the lightest movie since Alderaan was destroyed, Beru and Owen were killed, Obi-Wan sacrificed himself and the rebel pilots were killed. Give us a winner to get behind. The Episode model can be like this but they can switch up all the character expectations all they want. If we started off with ESB would anyone have continued on?
  17. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    I think the way to go is doing something in the vein of "A New Hope" a plot driven film with character moments.

    I think the one that follows should be more of a character driven film with significant melodrama.
  18. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Thanks!

    I was 7 and 10 when those movies came out, so I hadn't read many novels...;) But I most likely heard these things from kids who had older brothers or sisters who probably read them.
  19. Corvax855 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 2
    Just as long as there's none of that "rhyming" garbage Lucas put into the prequels, we should be alright. That was probably my biggest complaint about the PT. To this day, I'm not sure why Lucas was so obsessed with having the trilogies rhyme, because it added up to nothing, other than making everything feel derivative. If we get to Episode VIII, and it has Mandalorians, an asteroid field chase, and the protagonist loses a hand, I'm going to be pissed.
  20. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Or going to Tatooine again?
  21. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    Well depending on the narrative, I got to admit it would be kinda neat seeing Luke having retired on his old moisture farm on Tatooine.

    The mistake was mining Tatooine to death in the prequel trilogy. It should have been seen in only a passive sense.
  22. Corvax855 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 2
    Tatooine is starting to feel tired, but if they can come up with a neat and clever reason for going there, then I'm all for it. For example, I kind of like the idea of going there to find something that was hidden in Obi Wan's hut.

    What I'm more referring to would be if the new hero actually came from Tatooine, like Anakin and Luke. How boring and unimaginative would that be?
  23. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Ha ha lol. A battle happening in a Ship Graveyard would be interesting. Starfighters weaving in and out of abandoned Capitol ships. Think they could pull something off like the Maw? I can't think of another feature in space that would be unique and different. Maybe a star going Supernova?
  24. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Anyone know a good 'ship mass grave' in the era besides occasionally Coruscant? I think the Maw actually cleans itself up quite a bit with the blackholes sucking all the debris up.

    I really hope they don't use Tatooine much, I mean... we've been there for Episodes I, II, III, IV, and VI... That's... that's just too much air time for a desert planet with nothing of value on it, it's not like it's Arakiss and the spice must flow... Show us more of other worlds, just look at some of the cool settings we got in The Clone Wars... Onderon, Dac, Ryloth (which actually was kind of disappointing, I liked X-wing's Ryloth better), Mandalore (Also a bit disappointing), Rodia, Kato Nemoidia... and so forth.

    Someday, I'd like to see Kuat on the screen, but for Episode VII I'd settle for going back to Yavin IV or something...
  25. Jedsithor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 4
    I think if you want to get dark and gritty, there's room for it in the spin off films Disney are planning and the TV show if it ever happens (though I suspect some of those scripts might become film scripts). Seriously, go nuts with the spin offs. Make a Star Wars horror movie, a Star Wars romantic comedy, a Star Wars gangster film.

    But the main saga...no that has to stay pure Star Wars. Basically, anything with an episode number should stay within the adventure serial style that has persisted across the first six films (still weird to say "first" six). Now that doesn't mean that the ST can't explore new themes and ideas. Of course it can. But it should feel like a Star Wars movie.