This is a thread I've wanted to see here for a long time and thanks to Ulicus' suggestion in the [link=http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/29562771/p1/?104]Dark Empire Trilogy: Quality Literature or Galactic Trash?[/link] thread, I'm starting this as a spin off of the issues a few of us have been dealing with over there that aren't directly pertinent to the discussion of the value of the Dark Empire saga. That said, I want to lay out some ground rules that hopefully we can agree upon. I'd rather this not become a place to discuss Force powers or feats done with the Force unless they are pertinent to discussion of the philosophical mindset behind them and/or their relevance to a metaphysical conception of the Force and perhaps the comology and cosmogony involved. As an example, one of the divergent elements of the DE conversation had to do with Yoda's maxim "sizes matters not" with regards to the telekinetic abilities the Force grants. This line of discussion is pertinent because of the mental and metaphysical undertones of the statement... not because of the feat being performed. Off the top of my head there are a number of issues that are rarely addressed IU, and rarely discussed by most fans that I'd like to suggest. -The ontological questions related to the origins of the Force, the origins of life, how the Force and life are related and whether or not there's a chicken or the egg sort of dilemma here. For instance, while on the one hand Yoda says of the Force "life creates it, makes it grow" he also says "luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." That hints at something much larger than the first proposition... or even that "life" in Yoda's conception is not merely the existence of material bodies but something more subtle. I think the existence of midi-chlorians also goes in this direction... they are necessary for life to exist and also communicate the will of the Force and rather than de-mystifying the Force they kind of increase the mystery. The only de-mystification they do is the "how" a person communicates with the Force. -Force-ghosting. This is something deeply rooted in the real world's esoteric religious traditions and deserves alot more investigation than is usually done. This is an entirely new mode of being and one that requires... as Qui-Gon's spirit tells Yoda in the ROTS novelization... that one relinquish conceptions of self to retain identity in the Force. -Issues relating to the dark side of the Force and its existence. Whether it doesn't exist externally, or it does, or doesn't exist at all and is just a figment of the imagination or a projection from within the individual upon the external world. This is crucial and figure out what it means in the context of the Force as a whole. Starting points can be Vergere, Potentium, and GL's analogy of the dark side being like cancer while the light side is like symbiosis. Here are a few links to my TOS blog(which I haven't been contributing to because I don't have Hyperspace currently) of some of musings on these issues: [link=http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce/7]Does the Dark Side Exist?[/link] [link=http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce/8]Bringing Balance to the Force[/link] [link=http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce/10]To Die Before Death - Oneness With The Force[/link] [link=http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce/11]Everything is proceeding according to MY design![/link] [link=http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce/12]A Certain Point of View - Obi-Wan, Luke, and Vader's Redemption[/link] Have at it!