Lit Stepping Into A Larger World: A Metaphysical and Philosophical Discussion of the Force

I looked at the latter, but I didn't think there was a sufficient correlation. I don't think they have a significance in a metaphysical sense right now, they're just powerful Force users. I could be persuaded otherwise.

 

That seems to be implied: My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites.

 

I think what DM said is correct, the Force can be left up to interpretation, but the problem is that TCW makes you follow only one path and forces that to be the only correct one. That's at least from my perspective.

About 'the Ones'/Force Wielders, weren't they also mentioned as having a relation to Celestials? The one type of ancient aliens I hoped wouldn't be elaborated much more in Star Wars and would just be left as a mystery. Denning just why. Anyway, I believe it was mentioned in FOTJ that they're 'what the Celestials become'.

 

Aren't the Celestials pretty much a product entirely of the Denningverse? It's gone now, so who cares?

This word "anchorites" is mysterious. Puzzle that one out DM and Arawn. *EDIT* Nevermind. just googled it. Monks. Hermits.

 

No, the Celestials were always there, mostly as an enigma. As you would expect from Denning, all he did was try to strip away the mystique without actually making things any clearer.

 

Well, merging the Celestials and the Ones was Denning's thing. The New Canon would presumably have no such "Celestials."

 

really? They did not bring up the Celestials in tcw or anything? so they were only an eu creation?

 

I don't recall any mention of the Celestials in the Mortis arc at all.

 

Celestials weren't mentioned in TCW. They're 100% EU.

 

Celestials are purely Denning.

 

Realy?

 

Well, the Celestials were attributed to engineering the Maw and the Corellia system before the Ones and Abeloth were created.

 

Didn't the Killick's have a hand? Or were they slaves of Celestials ?

 

Yep. Though actually, now that I think about it I'm not certain who originally suggested that the creators of the Maw, the Corellian system, and various other ancient mysteries were all collectively the "Celestials" or "Architects". I'm almost sure it predated Denning, though.

Denning linked the Celestials and the Ones, but the Celestials certainly predated that.

 

They've also been retconned into ( maybe ) being the entities the Sharu were fleeing from in the backstory of Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu.

 

The Celestials were first mentioned in Dark Nest. Denning linked the Celestials with the Architects. The word "Celestials" and Denning retconning everything into being them was Denning.

The "Architects" were just an ancient, mysterious civilization, and only responsible for Centerpoint and the Corellia system. This "ascended" race trope of Force users that are the Celestials was invented by Denning.

There was also not necessarily a connection to be made between all the ancient astroengineering projects like the Maw, the Corellia system and Centerpoint, etc., but suddenly the "Expanded" Universe contracted and they were all made by one race rather than different ancient ones. Same story with the Sharu. That's "continuity" for you.

 

You'd be wrong seeing as the change to make Abeloth's plot part of the wider Mortis arc was an order that came from the top, it wasn't something Denning put in. Abeloth was just going to be this rogue Force entity. Her integration into the Mortis thing, like I said, came in much later.

If anything, the EU came in and saved the day as one of the Essential Guides (I don't remember which exactly, I think it was the Essential Guide to Warfare but it's been awhile) makes it clear that the Ones aren't any more correct than any other Force groups.

Despite this, Denning throwing the 'Celestial' label onto everything has been quite annoying, I wouldn't be surprised if he had eventually pulled a Reaper Mass Effect invasion with them.

 

Denning certainly isn't the one who first suggested that all of the ancient astroengineering projects go back to the same source, because that pops up a couple of places in the first-generation Essential Guides. And to be honest, I've always been okay with that idea; while it might shrink the universe a little, it does help create a certain appealing mystery around the builders, moreso than there might have been if they were all just one-offs. It died out a while ago, but we used to have a pretty sizable Ancient Races thread here that I think is something of a testament to how the idea could intrigue people.

The thing Denning did seem to introduce was that the "Celestials" were some kind of Force-based "ascended beings". That I had more of an issue with, although I do think I probably could have lived with it if he had just left it there (not that that was going to ever happen, naturally).

 

Fortunately the Rakata preclude the Celestials being responsible for everything, and I think back in 2003 it was thought maybe the Rakata built Centerpoint, and that may well have been the intent of Bioware since they're called the Architects by the ancient droid on Dantooine IIRC.

I don't think Denning was given "orders" to make the Celestials and/or Abeloth correlate with the Ones. Leland Chee suggested it. He didn't have his Story Group powers to force a writer to do his bidding yet.

 

Leland Chee didn't really have much authority in the first place, otherwise he would have been able to do more than just "fix" the damage with retcons.

 

The Builders, but close enough.

What does this mean? Correct about what?

 

According to Arden Lyn, Xendor talked about having met the Ones - but when she asked if The Ones represented the one true way of seeing the Force, he responded:

"Any philosophy, creed or religion that opens the heart to the Force proves itself to be true. My legions follow the dictates of such a creed. But that is only a demonstration of the application of power, Arden. It says nothing about the rightness of our beliefs, or the universality of our faith."

 

Correct about the nature of the Force. It's been well established by the EU and by the Movies themselves, up until TCW that is, that no Force belief is completely accurate on the nature of the Force.

 

Abeloth was merged into the Mortis thing, but whose idea was it then to say the Ones were Celestials that took bodily form? As of Apocalypse, and I don't really dislike this, the Celestials have pretty much become Star Wars' Ainur and the Ones are the Valar. I'm quite partial to angelology, so to me that does actually deepen the metaphysics of the Force.

 

The movies do not establish that, and in the ( Legends ) EU the Power of the Jedi sourcebook had established that the Jedi view was correct.