PT Steven spielberg and revenge of the sith

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jedi_Jack_17, Oct 29, 2013.

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  1. Jedi_Jack_17 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Okay so i was wondering how much influence steven spielberg had over revenge of the sith george said that he brought him in to help with the mustafar duel and other things yoda vs palpatine etc. but what exactly did he help with could he make changes to the duels themselves ?
  2. Count Yubnub Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    AFAIK, Spielberg helped storyboard the Obi-Wan - Grievous chase sequence, although most if not all of his ideas did not end up in the final movie.
  3. SlashMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
    He also convinced George to re-do the Mace vs. Sidious duel.
  4. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    That sounds interesting! Re-do it how?





    - I don't... I don't know what to say.
    - How is that possible?

    /LM
  5. SlashMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
  6. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    The entire sequence was altered.
    [IMG]
    The duel in the Chancellor's office looks nothing like the original version.

    Basically, Anakin turned much sooner and played the Jedi Council for fools as a double agent.
  7. mes520 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I wish they would release the scenes from the original confrontation, or even just that original part of the script
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  8. SlashMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
    It's surprising that the original footage wasn't released with the Blu Ray set. Not a big deal, since the actual duel would probably have took a similar turn (though because it was a late production change, the scene was probably completely or partially finished).

    A lot of scenes without Anakin in them were re-used, as evident by the shots of Palpatine using Anakin's hilt (they didn't bother replacing the hilt in some scenes).
  9. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Wait, let me get this straight...the original version had Anakin, unstable Chosen One and most powerful living Jedi, just standing there, while Mace Windu and Palpatine have the ultimate lightsaber duel for the fate of the galaxy?

    And someone had to convince GL that that sequence didn't make sense? [face_rofl]
  10. Ingram_I Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 3
    I can definitely believe that! Though, I'd contend that Spielberg's overall sensibility made into the actual set piece. Right away, during my very first screening of Revenge of the Sith, the Utapau chase between Obi-Wan and Grievous seemed reminiscent of the mine cart chase in Temple of Doom; even certain, scaled-miniature, cavernous interiors are vaguely similar. In fact, Obi-Wan was more or less doing the 'globetrotting Indy' thing throughout Episode II and III. Meanwhile, Anakin was having picnics and going to the opera. Weird.
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  11. Bobatron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    In 2005 when I first heard that Spielberg guest-directed, I thought it was for the battle between Yoda and Palpatine in the Senate. The use of a previously simple environment turned into an action setting, along with Yoda's claws scratching on the pod, just felt Spielbergian.
  12. darthfettus2015 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    i love this shot, sad it did not make it into the film, just love the perspective of the jedi's in the hall rather than the single close up we get in the finished article
  13. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    IIRC, there were only three of them, so Palpatine's slaughter might have looked more realistic with one less Jedi to kill.

    The entire scene made sense: Anakin Skywalker no longer existed and was already in league with the Sith when his saber was snatched from his waist. He just stood there, because Darth Vader wanted them to know that they were being betrayed before they died. That's the basic deal, he turned on them for not letting him access the Jedi archives.

    It was all about acquiring more power.

    Then, Spielberg reminded Lucas that this wasn't the OT and that he was forgetting about Padme.
    :p
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Oct 31, 2013
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  14. HevyDevy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Kinda depressing that they changed it. Anakin acting as a double-agent would have been cool to see. I guess Lucas wanted him less bad. Still love the movie though.
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  15. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Ditto.
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  16. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    It would have been cool to see, but rather empty, all the same, I think. The finished film brings you into Anakin's conflict -- his psychodrama. Those scenes of him rushing back to base, trying to appeal to Mace to let him accompany the Jedi in their attempted arrest of Palpatine, his fatherly mentor, and him agonizing over the visage of Padme when left to stew in his own juices in the Jedi Temple, with Padme, of course, seeming to faintly sense things from the other direction, set against an alien cityscape waxing inexorably, almost sighing, into night, and culminating in the epic battle for Anakin's soul in Palpatine's office -- those are all masterful scenes. There is almost a kind of spiritual ecstasy achieved in that passage of the film; a disturbed, aching lament. And THEN the grotesque pantomime bringing it to its deliriously vertiginous zenith: "He's a traitor!"; "He is the traitor, aaargh!"

    The original versions reads as more an exercise in moral somnambulism: Anakin lazily playing the field until he makes a more conscious submission to evil. In the finished film, this sort of happens more subliminally, with Anakin not really admitting his great lust for power, for Sithdom, until it's too late. I like the finished version much more.

    But I wouldn't quite say it was "changed", per se. I mean, logistically, this is so, but in a more aesthetic sense, Lucas simply rechanneled some of what he was doing. The original channel still flows, as it were, as a "shadow" version of the ROTS we already know.
  17. SlashMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
    Hmmm… It's kind of haunting knowing that Anakin was already lost before the Jedi arrived. Then again, a lot would have had to have been redone (Anakin alerting the Jedi, the lightsaber being kicked out the window). Point being, there's still very little known about how it would have played out.

    Of all the things people complained about, this scene in Revenge of the Sith never got much criticism compared to a lot of other things. It seems when people accuse Lucas of not listening to others that they say he's surrounded by yes men. But is this a case of the opposite? Personally, I still believe in Lucas as the mastermind behind the Saga, and in the end, it's his judgement that sees which ideas are used and not.
  18. GGrievous Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Good character moments too.

    Lucas, why. :(
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  19. Jedi_Jack_17 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2013
    I actually dont know what i would have preferred the finished scene in the film or the scene that wasnt used it would have been interesting to see how the other scene played out though maybe on a future directors cut/special edition ?
  20. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    Nice. And while Anakin obtains some measure of joy during the picnic scene, he ultimately cannot find rest on Naboo. In fact, being there seems to stir him even more to dreams of his mother. And at the opera house, he's already weighed down by visions of a second impending death. In short, Anakin cannot find art in artful places; they bring him no joy. Obi-Wan, in contrast, seems to extract some perverse thrill in battling Grievous and extinguishing his life force. Brothers: so different, so alike.


    Lucas has always humbly sought the input of others -- in theory, anyone can make a contribution to his movies. Spielberg seems to have been involved in both the Obi-Wan/Grievous chase on Utapau and stretches involving Yoda and the Emperor battling away on Coruscant and Anakin and Obi-Wan on the collector arm on Mustafar. The collector arm being pelted by lava and collapsing with Anakin and Obi-Wan still atop seems to have been a suggestion of his (according to the "Within A Minute" documentary). While, on the other hand, concept art Spielberg inspired for the Yoda/Emperor duel, in which their battle is projected on vast video screens, mirroring their combat endlessly, wasn't used going forward.

    But, overall, Spielberg's input is confounded by at least two factors: 1) We don't actually know what he actually contributed as Lucas seems to have created a slight air of mystery around the manifestation of much that made it into the PT and the windy path it took getting in there (which itself is further confounded by Lucas joking in behind-the-scenes material that he would sometimes say, "Steve wants this," so that -- in Lucas' telling -- his other artists wouldn't protest so much), and 2) As J.W. Rinzler himself remarked in this snippet back in 2005:

    Steven Spielberg was involved in some of the animatic sequences in the film. Can you tell us about that?

    As George explains in the book, he gave Spielberg a few scenes to play with at the animatics stage: a bit of the Mustafar duel, and Yoda's duel with the Emperor, along with a couple of others. How much of Spielberg's contribution made it to the final film, only Lucas or Spielberg could say, particularly as George revised and reinvented every scene in the film so extensively in editorial.


    In addition, Lucas may have come up with certain Spielbergian tricks/homages himself. For instance, in the commentary track, he notes that the shot wherein the cockpit of the Invisible Hand hurtles toward the camera, as the remains of the ship skid to a halt on the landing strip, is a "concept" shot in the vein of "Steve", because "he loves shots like this" and Lucas "[doesn't] usually do them". Though, again, the matter of Spielberg's involvement with ROTS can probably be felt here; Lucas may have wanted to express his gratitude to Spielberg for their friendship over the years in a more visceral way -- remember, Spielberg sounded the only real notes of genuine enthusiasm and support after Lucas screened a rough cut of the original film for the first time in his (Lucas') home with friends and peers (including Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck), claiming the picture had a "marvellous innocence and naivete" about it, equating that with Lucas himself, and prognosticating that people would love it. And Lucas was being a bit more bold in ROTS in some ways: going for something a bit more crowd-pleasing (especially in the first 20 mins; which he also described to his artists, minus the space battle, as "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom aboard a ship").

    And Spielberg was also at rough screenings of the movie, mainly there doing his usual thing of offering Lucas moral support, confirming that Lucas had most of the right beats in there, and that the picture -- this is me reading between the lines, now -- only needed the proper tweaking (as opposed to any major gutting and repair work); very consistent with the encouragement he generously lent Lucas after that early screening of the original film, which still had most of the effects shots missing at the time, with cobbled-together WWII movie footage functioning as crude substitute in the dogfight scenes, for example (though, looking back, you'll find that the substitution wasn't all that crude and that the completed effects shots follow the temp footage remarkably well; at least, in some places -- e.g., Han and Luke fending off those TIES). Elsewhere in "The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith", Lucas flatly states that he and Spielberg have very similar sensibilities, so there's obviously a great deal of mutual respect between the two men. I'd surmise that Spieberg may have had something to do with the "waterfall" shot that opens the picture (and which has a reprise, anyway, in the Utapau chase sequence, which Spielberg was certainly involved with), maybe some of the Order 66 sequence (including the ash setting of Mygeeto -- echoes of "Schindler's List"), and the scene of Yoda taking off in that Wookie ship to John Williams' sombre Yoda theme (which definitely has an air of "E.T." about it). Just a personal reading, but there's a bit more of an emotional grandeur to ROTS, and Spielberg is quite adept at tugging on the ol' heartstrings -- not just action stuff -- so you can feel his influence in a few places, I'd argue; though, again, it's hard to concretely establish what degree of influence he had on anything, ultimately.

    And I wouldn't want to sell Lucas short in any area, either. He's pretty awesome all by himself.
  21. Lee_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    In the DVD extras, George talks about how it was originally Spielberg's idea to have the final duel be on a fiery lava planet.
  22. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    The idea that Obi-Wan and Vader duelled somewhere fiery, goes right back to 1977:

    STAR WARS: OFFICIAL POSTER MONTHLY #2
    Published November 1977 by Galaxy Publications. Text writers Jon Trux, John May, Michael Marten.
    http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post2-02.jpg

    As on earth where we have White and Black Magic, so the Force has its dark side and Vader, for reasons that are unclear, became consumed by it. It led him to that fateful day when, in a fierce battle, he killed Luke Skywalker's father.

    What is less well known is that Vader himself was then almost killed by Ben Kenobi, who was understandably enraged at his disciple's fall from grace. Vader's life might have ended then and there with a quick stab of a light saber; instead, during the fight, Vader stumbled backwards and fell into a volcanic pit where he was nearly fried alive. What remained was dragged out and preserved by encasing it in an outsized black metal suit - virtually a walking iron lung.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 1, 2013
  23. SlashMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
    ^Couldn't help but notice that the original intention was for Obi-Wan to dabble into the ways of the Dark Side when he nearly killed Vader in revenge. Understandably, he didn't have the same motives in Revenge of the Sith.
  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 6
    I think in the Mustafar duel Spielberg came up with the (very awesome) bit wherein the lava snaps the structure in half and they start battling ontop of it. I know there's a part in the DVD doc where Lucas talks about the idea said it came from "The director" and wryly notes, "That's why I hired him!"
  25. Darth Eddie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 4
    AAAAuuuugh but that's why that fight turns into lame balletfighting until the slope scene!

    I really don't like Spielberg's fingerprints in RotS.
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
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