Stop the Unethical Harassment and Mistreatment of Clones!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by RogueJaina, Aug 14, 2001.

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  1. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Lancejade...
    "They were templated to be soldiers. As soon as they left those cylinders, they were soldiers."

    But, if they used the standard Imperial Soldier template, they could also be farmers until they're called upon to fight. :D So, they murdered thousands of possibly productive citizens of the galaxy.

    Palaptine's clones was a different case. While it doesn't absolve Luke of his murders, the clones had already been poisoned by Carnor Jax. They were doomed to die of madness.
  2. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    Protector Jax et al. poisoned the clones after HIM died at Da Soocha; the bodies destroyed by Supreme Commander Skywalker were not yet poisoned. And the poison did not cause madness, it caused cellular decay.

    At any rate, the actions committed by General Lord Calrissian of Bespin and Chewbacca and by Supreme Commander Skywalker were not in fact crimes.

    The clones destroyed by Lord Calrissian of Bespin and Chewbacca were soldiers, born and bred. They were imprinted with the minds of the Empire's finest and most loyal soldiers; they were inherently hostile soldiers. Furthermore, for the New Republic to "reprogram" the clones to be loyal to the Republic would be brainwashing, pure and simple. Morally unacceptable.

    The clones destroyed by Supreme Commander Skywalker were not soldiers, but they were specially gestated; these were empty bodies, devoid of minds and souls. Biologically, they were human, but these clones did not have the potential to live---only when possessed by the soul of the Emperor were they alive.
  3. DarthGanner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 1
    hey now remember how luke always got a creepey feeling around them. i never said they were devoid of the force, just that the force was warped around them because they were grown without exposure to it. maybe the fel clones werent grown like that because i would think that leia would be able to sense them even with her weaker abilities. tain't natrul :)
  4. Mateo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2001
    star 4
    suppose somebody learned of palpatines death over Pinnacle Base and right after that they used those Flash Learners to give palpatines clone his memories, after the real palpatine put his spirit into that clone body that was hidden from Nefta and Sa-Di he would be forced to fight serveral clones of himself and most of them might run off and take over Bastion or some other strong Imperial planet and start a bloody war with the other palpatine clones running around controlling other areas, then they would all be fighting luke and the new republic too as well as each other and the real palpatine on Byss.
  5. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    Weren't the Fel clones made during TTT or around that time? If so, wouldn't they be the same mind-less, brainwashed soilders as the ones Lando and Chewie killed?
  6. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    Not necessarily---and by the way, no-one said that the clones were mindless. In fact, probably not. Given that the Fel clones were grown to be a special side project, they were probably grown in a different manner, in order to suit their different mission profile.
  7. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    I think brainwashing is a way of taking away one's mind.
  8. Ooryl Qyrgg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2000
    star 3
    They aren't real. Hence they don't have rights. It's that simple. Cloning is wrong, thats what is being suggested by SW, and I'm happy to back that position up.
  9. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    Okay. It's wrong.

    I don't think the thread is about cloning being right or wrong. After the fact, clones should have rights just as all other people should.

    Thats what this thread is.
  10. Ooryl Qyrgg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2000
    star 3
    Yeh, but by saying cloning is wrong it therefore equals that they don't have rights.

    I'm saying there aren't people.
  11. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    III_Vir,

    The opening "title crawl" of Crimson Empire makes the sequence of events very clear. The clones which the Emperor tried to return to after ROTJ had been poisoned by Lord Jax.

    The Essential Chronology supports the original source with "...to damage the genetic structure of all of the clones..."
  12. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    The cure to 'clone madness' or 'clone sickness' is non other then:

    ysalamiri!


    Jello- You're suppose to be on my side! Of course Luke and Mara, or at least Mara, tried to kill Thrawn!

    Anyway, didnt Mara and Luke speculate that they should destroy him for fear that he would turn out like his predessor? They could have found another way out of the mess they got themselves into instead of blowing up the Spaarti Cylinder generator!!!

    Like using the Force to force their selves through the hole Mara made and to the surface of the lake! *growls*
  13. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    But its not their fault that they're clones. Say you're born to a normal mother a father. You grow up normally. You live a normal civilized life. Then when you reach the age 30 you are lieing on a bed in a hostpital for a minor acciedent. A doctor comes over and accidently informs you that you are a clone of your parents first, natural child who died due to a misscarraige.

    You are human. You are a clone, but didn't know it until now. Does that make you anyless sentient and real? Maybe its wrong that you were made. But you were, and you grew up, and led a normal human life. What is wrong? To take away that life now because it was wrong, or to continue to let you try and live a normal, rightful life?
  14. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    "Humans fear what they dont understand and what they fear, they destroy." -Goliath Disney's Gargoyles

    An example of this is the near extinction of the Canis lupis or Gray Wolf. In England wolves were mainly hunted because humans believed they were evil. If you look at a wolf, you can understand where they got that idea. Just a certain look they give can make you think they are evil. Plus they are predators and hunt in packs.

    Humans spun tales of were-wolves or packs abducting children to eat. Or the most famous tales are the Big Bad Wolf and the Three Little Pigs and Big Bad Wolf and Little Red Riding Hood. The wolf received a terrible reputation based on these far fetched tales and would be hunted for it. The other and more minor (and later) reasons are cattle and sheep attacks (which are very rare btw) or that a wolfs pelt sold alot. (Which is now illegal to do and if you're caught killing a wolf in the US, you'll pay a very heavy fine)

    The Clones are like the wolf, they've been given a bad reputation based on an event (or nature) and later spun into porportions that can make you want to fear them.
  15. RogueJaina Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2001
    star 4
    I think some very good points are being made, but still, the amount of prejudice in evidence here is overwhelming! Really, we are here to voice our support of the uniqueness-challenged, not to say that they're bad... please!

    And if any of the uniqueness-challenged would like to put in a point, I would like to invite them to do so.

  16. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    RogueJaina...
    "And if any of the uniqueness-challenged would like to put in a point, I would like to invite them to do so."

    Yes, I would also like to hear Mara Jade's thoughts on the matter as well. :D
  17. Mateo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2001
    star 4
    Luke and Mara could have let Thrawns clone live, if it had lived then luke could have used the force to eliminate its memory like Kyp Durron did with Qiu Xu.
  18. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    The Clone wouldn't of had Thrawn's memory anyway. Clones don't have the memory of their originals. They have to be taught/brainwashed with it, if at all.
  19. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Thrawn's clone would have had Thrawn's memories because knowing Thrawn he'll have a complete flash memory device set up to give his clone his memories. Otherwise whats the point in trying to clone yourself?
  20. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    Disgusting. You actually recommend that the cowardly Jedi abuse their power to erase the memories of an innocent man? For no other reason than his genetic code? Such racism does not become the supporters of the New Republic.
  21. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    I tell you the Jedi are just as corrupt as they were 50 years ago! They have no right to judge clones!

    *makes signs that say "Down With Jedi", passes them out to others who'd support him and pickets infront of the Jedi Temple* "Down With Jedi!" "Jedi Are Corrupt!" "No Right To Judge Others!" "Down With Jedi!"
  22. Mateo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2001
    star 4
    and then the 10,000 Jedi Knights in the Jedi Temple come out the front door with their Lightsabers ignited and begin cutting them in half left and right, the next day Supreme Chancellor Palpatine begins the Jedi Purge....
  23. RogueJaina Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2001
    star 4
    The Jedi killing the uniqueness-challenged are simply symptomatic of a galaxy-wide disease of prejudice, intolerance, and unhappy people seeking to blame others for their misfortune!
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