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ST Stopping the cycle of master-apprentice fallout

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by cerealbox, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    With Grandmaster (grandmistress?) Rey.

    Basically a dark side Force always manages to lure a Jedi to their side.

    And it's always in the same longrunning master-apprentice chain.

    Yoda'a apprentice Dooku went to the Darkside.

    Obi Wan's student Anakin went to the Darkside.

    Luke's student Ben went to the Darkside.

    What can Rey do to prevent this from happening?

    Will she have a better relationship with a potential apprentice?
     
  2. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    They could not give her an apprentice. No seriously I don't think she'll get one.
     
  3. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    What are the chances that by the end, Rey takes on Ben as her apprentice since Luke's gone?
     
  4. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Eh, I'm more into the idea that a defeated and remorseful Ben hiding on Tatooine is trained (again) by Ghost Luke.
     
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  5. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Maybe I'm missing the punchline or something. If a "defeated and remorseful" Ben Solo is left to be trained by Ghost Luke, who will be Rey's antagonist?
     
  6. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I haven't got it all worked out. I just like the idea that Hux and the First Order find out that he killed Snoke and they all turn on Kylo and by the end of the film he's hiding on Tatooine, defeated, broken, without an empire, without a family and he's left realizing that everything he did, turning to the dark side, joining the First Order, killing his father, it was all for nothing, all a big mistake that he finally admits to.
     
  7. cut-of-space

    cut-of-space Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Hmm... I think keeping secrets from your apprentice should be banned. And mentors should make compassion a top priority! I'm talking about pure, unconditional love. An apprentice should always feel safe and comfortable with their teacher, that's very important here. They should be able to tell each other everything without a drop of judgement between. If you build a relationship with all those elements then it should be impossible to turn you against each other, right? It's just basic stuff that can help, emotional intelligence 101.
     
    cerealbox likes this.
  8. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Not sure if you can really count (haha) Dooku. He was a Jedi Master, taught a padawan who turned into a Jedi Master himself. He only turned when he was an old man. At that point it can't really be the teachings of the master that caused the fall. Yoda lived for 900 years and was involved with teaching a ton of different Jedi, so it's not like all his pupils turned into failures, even if you count Dooku as one, which would seem rather odd.

    Besides, Dooku's apprentice didn't fall, and neither did his padawan's pawadan. Showing that there is absolutely nothing wrong with that "line". And who do you even count as Luke's master? Is it Obi Wan? Then Obi wan had one apprentice who fell and one who didn't. Is it Yoda? basically the same result.

    These are completely different people who fell to the darkside at completely different times of their lives, and under completely different circumstances as well. If Rey's future padawan (if we would ever get one) would fall to the darkside, it would be because of him being succeptible to it, not because of some sort of connection. Nor is there anything Rey could do beyond passing on what she has learned and hoping that the pupil is up for the task.
    It's not like the masters had a bad relationship with their padawans anyway. Yoda and Dooku got along well enough for Dooku to turn into a highly respected Jedi Master himself. Obi Wan and Anakin had a very good relationship as well, it was a combination of the circumstances, Anakin's possessiveness and a Sith Lord whispering into his ear that caused his fall.
     
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  9. GregMcP

    GregMcP Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Basically grumpy old man Luke was largely right. The Force is a dangerous toy. It's black magic.

    It's so easy to shortcut careful calm difficult restrained practice, and fall into anger and aggression. A fair metaphor for life on the Internet really.

    How to deal with that? Perhaps it needs the classic Jedi system of getting them when they are young. Indoctrinating kids like any other religious cult. But that has the danger of a heavy rebellion when the child grows up.

    Do the Jedi need Thought Police?
    Looking into the soul of Padawans continually. Forever searching for heretics. Monitoring their Facebook accounts.
     
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  10. GregMcP

    GregMcP Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    (too late to edit the above)
    Ahh, now I've got a little fanfiction.
    The Jedi Confessor.
    Every week, like all good Catholic school children used to do, Padawans in Jedi Training are required to go to Confession.

    Edward The Confessor listens to them explain their little pre-teen dark thoughts. Usually trivial little things such as saying a rude word if they get hurt. Wanting more desert. And Edward also quietly probes the children's minds for deeper dark influences.

    And something Nasty is playing games with both the Padawans and Edward.

    Anyway... Maybe for the fanfiction subforum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  11. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    I'm not catholic, but that sounds like a school guidance counselor.
     
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  12. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Its not going to end. Because Disney will always want to keep open, the potential dark jedi threat in the post ST world, exspecially if they never bring back the Sith.

    Of course that doesn't mean its going to happen again in Reys life time after the ST. But eventually, it will happen sometime after she is gone, if their is a jedi order.
     
  13. Jamtia

    Jamtia Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2016
    If they do another trilogy after this one, I’m down for a sith that hasn’t turned and is just plain evil.
     
  14. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Right now Ben knows a lot more than Rey
     
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  15. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 7

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    Oct 28, 2014
    Knows more of what? Without any guidance, Rey used Jedi mind tricks, the Force, and had no issues wielding the lightsaber in TFA. Ben had training with Luke, and from the looks of it he's still rusty.
     
  16. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Didn't seem rusty to me. In the praetorian guard fight scene Kylo was fighting a group of guards while Rey was fighting them one on one. Also Rey got stabbed in the shoulder during the fight while Kylo remained unscathed.
     
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  17. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    How does he look rusty?
    He took knowledge from other people's minds, he stopped a laserbeam in mid-flight, grabbed people in such a way that they couldn't move. Rey using the force to beat a badly injured and overconfident Ben once (after being hopelessly outmatched the entire time before) does not somehow make her superior to him when it comes to the knwoledge of the force.

    As seen in TLJ, they are a match in terms of power, but Ben clearly has a head-start when it comes to the actual knowledge. He has been trained for a long time, unlike Rey. There is a reason why she asks for guidance, she has power but no deeper knowledge of what to do and how to deal with things. Ben, on the other hand, has been trained and knows this stuff.

    Seeing how they are pretty much equals, having one being the master of the other makes little sense, though if one had to define one of them as more likely to be the teacher, it would be Ben, because he has a knowledge that Rey couldn't possibly possess at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    Yora, NileQT87 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  18. dlbates

    dlbates Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Nah, they will just keep the cycle of a Jedi being too young to start an order with not enough guidance to be successful. Think of all the trilogies they can pump out using that plot. With Luke dead, Rey will end up were he was after Return of the Jedi by episode 9.
     
  19. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004
    There is no way to prevent autonomous, sentient beings from falling to the dark side.

    As long as people are free to make choices, the Dark Side of the Force will be a choice.

    Nobody can eradicate it. Best teachers can do is try and change the approach to include a lot more openness, honesty and compassion. Padawans need to be free to speak truthfully, and without judgement, about their dark side temptations. And perhaps they need to work to find the true balance between Light and Dark, which is not just the avoidance of the Dark.

    And the only way to kill the possibility of anyone abusing the Force for dark purposes is to somehow eliminate Force sensitivity. Perhaps that'll be a story for the real final episode of Star Wars?
     
  20. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Bumping my own thread.

    But I doubt we see Rey have any type of apprentice in IX.

    My initial question is more for the new EU or possibly a movie 20 years down the line.
     
  21. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Whatever tact they take for Jedi or light siders, if they do continue with that, make it different.

    In addition to lessons, pass on your experiences. I also agree with the compassion tact.

    For dark siders, I think there will always be the potential for betrayal. That is built in.
     
  22. dlbates

    dlbates Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 30, 2014
    Not stand over them while they sleep with an ignited lightsaber.
     
  23. BlueHenDave

    BlueHenDave Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2013
    His name is Palpatine
     
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  24. dlbates

    dlbates Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 30, 2014
    With the Banite Sith being extinct I think they would have to play off of a group of ancient Sith breaking off from the Sith Empire and remaining hidden for it to work. Other than that I feel the first new Sith would have to been a prior Jedi like the originals. Unless they use the Knights of Ren. Kylo already broke away so maybe one of his top guys will survive, collect and learn from Sith holocrons and texts then declare himself Darth Whoever the new Dark Lord of the Sith.
     
  25. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Someone finds a Sith Holocron
     
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