Padu, KY STORMTROOPERS- CLONES OR PEOPLE

Well it looks like this argument is back on. I for one am completely stunned that anyone would ever think that Palpatine would get rid of his beautiful clone army. They are completely loyal to only him, they make sure that the other aspects of the military are ran efficiently and they maintain order on all the planets in the galaxy. I don't care whats been written because one story contradicts what another story says and I don't care what George has said because of the same reason. Just put yourself in Palpy's shoes at the end of Ep.3 and ask yourself, Hmm do I keep my clone army or do I think Tatooine farmers can do a better job? Vote and give reasons for voting for it.

 

Reasons
1. Their armor looks an awful lot like clone armor.

2. Completely loyal to Palpatine. You can't train that into a person.

3. It just makes sense in the long run. Cheap,efficient, killing troopers. Did they even get a paycheck? I would say NO. Food and shelter and both at the minimum level.

 

Well, I guess I can't vote, because I believe they are both clones and individuals.

From what I've understood, when needed, some troops were drafted from local areas and brainwashed into complete loyalty to the Empire - this is from early books. But I do believe for the most part, Stormtroopers were still clones.

Of course, there is the question, what happened to the Aussie accent? I hate to use this as an example because I hate it, but I'm going according to Lucas, Boba Fett still has his accent at the time of Empire (in Special Edition DVDs). If most of the clones were still from Jango by the time Star Wars happened, then the accent would still be there, so, obviously, they are not clones of Jango anymore, but of someone else, or more likely multiple someone elses. I do believe that the Jango Fett clones continued into the ranks up until Return of the Jedi, specifically in the 501st (although this is all background story), but I do think clones were created from other individuals, probably great Naval officers and recruits who showed affluence and loyalty to the Empire, and probably rich parents who kept their children out of the armies by allowing them to be cloned. But I believe any person used as a template had to meet certain requirements, and one in particular was a height requirement.

But I do not think that anyone going into the Imperial Academy ended up as a Stormtrooper, unlike some tales I've heard. I think these were people who served the Navy and command stations under the Empire, in such jobs as officers, engineers, mechanics, gunners, and AT-ST drivers. So these were NOT Stormtroopers.

And, no, Stormtroopers probably did not get paid. Thus why two troopers would make small talk about a new gun or whatever on the market but it would never occur to them to actually own one, just if the Empire chose to let them use it.

But, now, do only Stormtroopers have clones in their ranks, or are Snowtroopers, Biker Scouts, TIE pilots, and Royal Guards also clones? I think Snowtroopers are just Stormtroopers in warmer clothing, and I believe TIE pilots would be clones of the best pilots in the Empire, and I would think Royal Guards would have to be, but for some reason I think the Biker Scouts are the lower end of the troopers and are more than likely to be recruits. Again, what you think and not necessarily what you've read.

 

Interesting you bring up tie fighter pilots. In the rougue squadron game wasn't the defecting tie pilot a woman? That would make it pretty much a must that either there are individuals as pilots or there are different "originals" they were using for clones and not just the jango template.

The hight requirement is interesting as well.. I know the famous line of "being too short" but in all the movies where several troopers are lined up next to each other almost NONE of them are the same height. Brings to mind the trooper bumping his head on the door in ANH... a taller clone?

Of course like you've already mentioned this is all assuming your taking every aspect of the movie for face value as well as considering all the other SW franchise games/books/comics as reliable sources as well.

In battlefront II it answers this question by saying that after the "clone uprising" on kamino the Emperor felt that having genetically identical clones gave them too strong of a conection to each other and started using other people as basis for more clone troops to vary the bloodlines more. This cut out any "brotherly comraderae" the troops might have and use to rise up against him. The 501st stayed true to jango's form but, as quoted from the game, "Never got used to the new guys."

It's an interesting debate that's for sure.. I think I stand on the idea that the basic infantry troops were clones as they were expendable, this being stormtroopers, snowtroopers, scouttroopers etc... but the more specific duties of atst drivers, comanders, ATAT pilots, Tie pilots and such were acadamy graduates or other loyal dinizens of the empire.

 

I vote all clones. Not necessarily all Jango clones but clones nonetheless.

 

My vote goes to a mix of clones and recruits. I believe they cloned recruits. But only a few. Probably the best in each field. What about Soontir Fel? I know he was a tie pilot, but he was a recruit. Then he was cloned. (Also giving destruction to the "clones are more loyal than a trained recruit" because his clones defected). He even went to the academy. Full of recruits. And what was the Imperial Academy's main purpose? Stormtrooper training. Why would the Academy take recruits (which we know is a fact) and train them if they did not go into the infantry? That is the lowest rank in the Imperial Army, right? Why would you train recruits if they weren't going into the infantry? Not all of the recruits would be being trained for pilots or officer positions. Not to even mention the fact that we have the Royal Guard (yay!) which are the best of the troopers. Taken from the ranks of the Troopers and sent to more specialized training. Like Army Rangers or Seals. If they were clones, they would have already been cloned for this sole purpose. Right?

Feel free to pick apart my logic. I love debates.

 

Ok I think some of the problem might be the term Imperial Academy. Some think of this as a military type thing where I kinda look at it as a truck driving school kind of thing. Why do we need to have such a strong military presence in a time of "peace" other than to enforce it. I believe the Academy was used to learn a trade, fly a ship,how to shoot a blaster(everybody had one!)freighter pilot stuff. It has military applications but i'm not sure the Empire needed everyone who graduated to serve. Han went to the academy and I assume he graduated but i've never read anything of him serving in the Empire.
And yes I do believe all troopers were clones. Different templates as well specifically suited to whatever talent was needed. And your right Nardo debates like this are what I live for.I may disagree with you 200% but I'm glad I got someone to argue it over with.

 

Actually I think the military academy was a combo of bootcamp and officer's school. And Han did not graduate, here is the explination from Wookipedia...

Han Solo was a Human from Corellia who achieved galactic fame as a member of the Rebel Alliance and later the New Republic. Born on Corellia, he was abandoned at an early age and taken by the pirate Garris Shrike to serve on his crew. He was treated cruelly, and served Shrike for many years before escaping while in his teens. Solo became a smuggler, and fell in love with Bria Tharen, though she left him due to her duties to the Rebel Alliance. Solo then entered the Imperial Academy at Carida, serving with distinction. He was kicked out, however, when he stopped an Imperial officer from beating a Wookiee named Chewbacca


And the troopers were a combo of Humans and Clones. But not all clones were of Jango. As the Empire began taking on human troops, the best of the best were cloned for a while. Again from Wookipedi..

By the time the Galactic Civil War began in earnest, Fett's progeny were heavily supplemented with clones from new DNA sources and troopers recruited in the traditional manner; non-clone stormtrooper recruits had first been introduced in 9 BBY. Despite this influx of new trooper sources, the ranks remained exclusively Human: an obvious sign of the New Order's High Human Culture. By 0 BBY, about one-third of the stormtroopers originated from the Fett DNA, though most of them were recruits.[3]

If a man between the ages of 18 and 30 scored in the top fifth percentile, an Imperial recruiting agent would contact him and presumably arrange DNA sampling for cloning. Men who didn't score that high were still wanted as regular soldiers.

 

I believe SithMonger answered it best above. It's worth another read. hehe

 

Just another point I'd like to make. Its senior year at the Imperial Academy and your the hotshot pilot on campus. 1 year later your chasin a corellian freighter into an asteroid field in a ship with no shields. Oh yeah sign me up.

 

Ok, TK4089, that just makes me want to do a short fanfilm where a bunch of guys are going to the academy recruiting office and find out what they're up against. TIE fighters with no shielding, sent to the front lines with no medical help (i will forget about the medic call in Clone Wars - kids have to be reassured that the good guys will be okay so this doesn't count), and stationed on a moon-sized laser weapon which has one been tested a few times. But the Emperor could be sitting there persuading the recruits to go ahead and join by using the force. And that's why humans can be troopers.

Recruit: "Wait...you mean those fighters don't have shields?"

Emperor: "We are the Empire. We are great. Shields are insignificant!"

The recruit looks around at his friends who all smirk and giggle a bit. The Emperor gets a bit frustration at their behavior.

Recruit: "You're crazy, old, man. You'll learn by Episode 6. There's no way I'm going to risk my life without shields for your Empire."

The Emperor waves his hands and grins.

Emperor: "Oh, you WILL sign your name here and here and join the Empire."

The recruit's grin fades away and he gets a blank stare on his face.

Recruit: "I will sign my name here and here and join the Empire."

The recruit starts to sign the paper on the table.

Emperor: "Yes, and right here where it says...expendable."

The Emperor peers around the recruit to the other friends behind him and waves his hands.

Emperor: "And you will sign too, my little pretties!"

The Emperor points to them and laughs.

Friends (in unison): "And we will sign too, your little pretties!" (and giggle)

Emperor: "You all will give all your souls over to me and my Empire, and fight for it until you die."

Recruit and Friends: "We will give our souls over to you and your Empire, and fight for it until we die."

Emperor: "Excellent. Now, fetch me a latté. Looks like this is going to take a while."

The Emperor leans back in his chair as the camera rolls back to reveal a very long line of people. A sign reads "FREE Pilot's Licenses" above the door. A guy at the end of the line, peers around the people so he is visible. He has dark brown hair, a mustache, and a cape. He looks around at the crowd who all look pretty dull and bored but are definitely not clones.

Biggs: "Am I in the right line? I can't believe Luke is back home missing THIS. Exciting! I can't wait to tell Fixer!"

The recruit starts to hand the Emperor his coffee but spills it.

Cut to Black

End

 

finally sounds like one that will NEED a T.I.E. pilot in it lol