CT Stormtroopers- incompetents or secret rebels?

Think about it, what if the stormtroopers were actually controlled by the Rebels? They pretend they are part of the Empire, and thereby give them the worst army possible. If Stormtroopers were double agents, what is one thing they would do differently? They are just convincing enough to hide their loyalty but never inflict any real harm to the rebels and severely weaken the Empire's ability to fight. Almost no attack or sabotage the Rebels would execute could come close to the effect the Stormtroopers had on the Empire.

 

It's an interesting idea, but doesn't really add up as is. When I saw the title of this thread, I didn't go "Yeah, that makes sense!", I went "wut".

First, "the stormtroopers" is pretty vague. I mean, surely not all, a majority or even a significant fraction could be rebels. There's no sign of it in the movies. You'd have to question why they didn't flat out turn and openly help the rebels at the right time, or just stage a coup of their own.

Secondly, why are these rebels stormtroopers so willing to get killed fighting rebels, again? Seems insanely suicidal for anyone, much less a significant number. Why not just desert and join the rebels?

What about the fight on the Tantive IV? Stormies vs Rebels, blasting each other. I just don't see the stormtroopers as secret rebels there.

I'd hope they wouldn't kill Owen and Beru and slaughter Jawas for no reason, but maybe not.

I guess maybe you could make a case for it on Bespin, but I don't particularly see it. I mean, Han still gets frozen in carbonite and sent off to Jabba. They coulda sabotaged Slave I or something. Why blast 3PO into pieces instead of letting him report back to Han and Leia? Why sabotage the Falcon's hyperdrive?

I think Endor is the elephant in the room. It's the big opportunity for Rebels to really strike a winning blow....why wouldn't the stormtroopers show their true colors there? Why wouldn't the Rebel strike team spare them after? Why aren't they partying with the Rebels? I see a lot of stormie helmets used as drums during the party. Why aren't the stormtroopers shown during the celebration scenes?

Could you provide even one example of anything that makes you think any of the stormtroopers are actually double agents? I mean, "they're bad shots when they're shooting at the main characters" is hardly compelling.

I'm sure one could come up with stories about individual stormtrooper double agents, perhaps who appeared in the movies, but a whole group? Nah, at least not seen in the movies. Maybe you could come up with a platoon that were all double agents and come up with stories for them, but they wouldn't fit in the movies.

I just don't see anything, anything at all, to make me seriously entertain this idea and try to make it work.

 

Haha....not sure if serious or....?

I'm sure if the Rebels controlled that vast military - they'd turn it on the Imperial officers.

 

Alright let me plain myself. Forgive me as I go into the prequels but they include the canon on the origin of the Stromtroopers so they must be included. When Jango Fett, sold the templates of the clones to the Republic, he did not just sell the whole thing completely. I think he must have included some fail-safe in case his army was ever turned against him or Mandalore. I belive this fail safe was Boba Fett. It is quite possible that besides being engineered to be Fett's son he was also equipped to be a "super clone" who could take control of the army if the Republic and Jango ever had a "severe conflict of interest." For awhile, Boba did nothing with these clones, he had no need, he had no love for the Jedi who were responsible for the death of his father so he took no action during Order 66. It must be hard to be a Bounty Hunter during the Empire's reign, with Imperial governors wrestling control of the galaxy from all the Jabba-like strongmen. Severely limiting Boba's contracts and his ability to maneuver freely in the Galaxy as compared to under the rule of the corrupt, and centralized Republic.

Enter the Rebel Alliance, the Allied command offers Boba a huge some in exchange for control of the Clones, now Stormtroopers. Now, how would the Rebels know about Boba's control of the Clones? Maybe the one Jedi in the universe who knows of Boba's unique origin oh yeah, who also happens to be one of the two Jedi to survive the Jedi purge, Obi-Wan Kenobi. How did the Rebel Alliance afford it? Mon Montha and the Organas were among the wealthiest senators in the Republic, but, the Rebel Alliance used very second-rate equipment ships, blasters, you name it. So, where did all their money go? It is possible to Fett. Why would Boba do it? Well besides receiving such a large sum, he figured that a post-Imperial galaxy would be much better for a bounty hunter. The biggest argument is the Clone's/stormtrooper's intelligence and training. They are not dumb, and they are not un-trained. They are pretty advanced fighting outfit, which spends years training for their one purpose- to fight. No human would ever have that one singular focus. As for intelligence, clones were trained with the ability to command hundreds in battle and were very advanced strategists. Only a unit so intelligent in military force could undergo so much training and actually be that incompetent. Anyone with less training would have accidentally hit Han or Luke one or twice, only a true sharpshooter could miss that closely so many times. As for the burning on Endor, the plan was probably unknown outside of the Alliance command so Luke, Han and the crew probably had no idea.

 

So as CT-867-5309 put it above, it's really just because "they're bad shots when they're shooting at the main characters".

 

Wut?

When you say "sold the templates of the clones", you make it sound like it was something he had on a flash drive, and not just the blood in his veins. The template is just his DNA, extracted by the cloners of Kamino.

Uh, how?

I don't see Jango as being particularly knowledgeable or skilled in the manipulation of DNA, and even if he was, the Kaminoans could and would have spotted it and just altered it, the way they altered his DNA anyway. They were perfectionists, they weren't going to miss a thing.

Take control, how? Like some sort of psychic mind control? With a "command" similar to Palpatine's Order 66? What command and how could Jango foresee Boba "giving" it to the Alliance?

Engineered complete obedience to Boba Fett? If you count TCW, we know that's not the case.

Everything I've seen says the dark times was a great time to be a bounty hunter. The Empire put out bounties like hot cakes. Boba seems to be thriving as a bounty hunter in the OT, especially in ESB where Vader gives him respect. I could go into more detail, but I don't think it's necessary. I can't say I agree that Boba would be particularly inclined to oppose the Empire, hurting your further points.

According to numerous sources, including George Lucas, the stormtroopers in the OT aren't just the clone troopers from the PT. Some are, but many, maybe even the vast majority, are clones of other templates and non-clones. The clone troopers from the PT may be a tiny minority by the time of the OT.

But I'm willing to stipulate that all stormtroopers are Jango clones just for the hell of it.

I think you're overestimating the wealth of Mothma and the Organas and grossly underestimating the cost of the Rebellion. Not that this is the most devastating blow to your theory.

Yeaaaaaah, I should have just skipped to this part. The stormtroopers can't kill Han, Luke or Leia because it's a movie. They weren't incompetent when they boarded the Tantive IV or when they attacked Hoth.

I really hope this isn't your "evidence" from the movies.

I'm not even sure what you mean by "burning on Endor", or why General Solo and Commander Skywalker, the new hope of the Rebellion, wouldn't be informed of potential allies on Endor.

Still doesn't explain why the stormtroopers put up such resistance against their alleged rebel allies in the most pivotal hour.



It seems like the only evidence from the movies (or anywhere else) you have to go on is that the stormtroopers missed Han, Leia and Luke. That's not very compelling. On top of that, there's just a ton of craziness going on that is absolutely absent from the movies, and one would think this super clone Boba Fett and rebel stormtrooper army would have been mentioned at some point. To my knowledge there's not even anything in the EU that would remotely support or even hint at any of this.

I love to entertain wild theories, but the Force isn't with you. There's always fan-fiction.

Still, cool username. Polydroxols ftw.

 

Okaaay wow, I have to admit I half made this as a joke and half trying to explain why the Stormtroopers are so inaccurate. The "not shooting at the stars because its a movie" thing is of course true, but its not very canon. This is especially true for a film series that prides itself on accuracy and plausibility. Siths aren't terrible Lightsaber duelists, Jedi die, Han gets frozen in carbonate, bad things happen in Star Wars, why? Because that is how it would be naturally and helps you feel like you are on a real adventure filled with ups and downs. They could have easily given the Stormtroopers harder shots and spared the world the biggest knock on Star Wars or, at least try to explain it like I did. Yes, you could say they are cut-rate discounts created in mass but c'mon, there is a limit, especially for a force who supposedly conquered a galaxy. 20 yards to a stationery target? May as well been droids.

 

They were incompetent. The rebels at least knew how to aim

 

One thing you do not seem to have considered, the stormtroopers on the Death Star in A New Hope may have been told to miss Han, Luke and Leia, Chewie too; but to make it look convincing.

It is subtle, but when the 'Falcon reverses through the containment field and gets the feth out of there, Tarkin asks, "Are they away?" and "You are sure the beacon is secure aboard their ship? I'm taking an awful risk Vader, This had better work."

At least Leia recognised that the escape had been a bit easy, and that they were being tracked.

 

This idea is crazy. Perhaps the OP could explain why the rebel agents in white were willing to let the rebellion be crushed in "one swift stroke" at Yavin?

 

It's good to see that 7SA is not the only place for insane theories.

 

I figured that applies to them only sending 4 TIEs after the Rebels, instead of the hundreds that the Death Star actually had. Leia actually says that in the novelization -"they only sent four fighters - they could easily have sent a hundred".

 

I'd forgotten about the TIEs. So long since I have seen the film or read the novel.

 

I think the only way to make this plausible is to say they are still clones made from the same code as the original clone troopers, and have some subconscious programming to not do evil.

But that's a bit of a stretch.

 

I'm not. They changed Boba Fett's voice to reflect his being a clone of Jango. Don't think any of the stormtroopers' voices were changed.

 

True - but we don't always hear stormtroopers.

I'm told Jango bumping his head on Slave 1, was put in as a nod to one stormtrooper bumping his head in A New Hope. I like the notion that some Jango clones still exist, at least.

 

Also true, but the stipulation was to all stormtroopers being Jango clones.

 

This thread reminds me, I've been meaning to manipulate my DNA so that nobody can ever use clones of me against me.

 

The Stormtroopers secretly work for Bolvan, who schemes to make everybody hold their fire.

 

Incompetent? I don't know. What I do know though is that they had the worst aim in the entire universe.

 

I doubt it was outright rebellion, but I can see a couple of them missing on purpose because they wanted the Empire gone, but they were too afraid to break rank. Not for all of them, though.