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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Strengths of ROTS

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth__Lobot, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    I did some re-watches of the entire saga with my kids in preparation for TFA in December. We used both the machete (451236) and numerical (123456) order. As an aside, I have to give Lucas a ton of credit; it's pretty amazing (not to mention unique) that a movie series can be great in two totally different orders and give you a different (but still wonderful) experience both times.

    I really enjoy ROTS and I've been trying to put my finger on all the reasons ROTS works for me where TPM/AOTC might not (even though if I'm being intellectually honest I admit it has some of the same issues that bother me in TPM/AOTC.. .but for some reason the movie just works for me and I'm willing to overlook them). I want this to be a POSITIVE thread about ROTS; I definitely do not intend this to be a TPM/AOTC bash fest and the mods should lock it if it goes that way.

    Some thing I've come up with:

    - ROTS just looks wonderful. I think Lucas and ILM had really mastered some of the more groundbreaking techniques used in the PT by the time of ROTS

    - ROTS is fairly tonally consistent

    - ROTS allows the two best actors (IMO) of the PT to really shine (Ian and Ewan)

    - Hayden gives us his best performance in ROTS

    - ROTS has one of the best film scores every recorded. I'd probably still rank TESB a bit higher, but it's not by much (and it probably just depends on my mood that day :))

    - ROTS has pretty good pacing; I don't feel like it has many spots where it drags

    - ROTS has some really memorable scenes. The Order 66 montage is great and features some of my favorite John Williams music ever.

    - ROTS features by far the most dramatic tension of the PT
     
  2. CaptainSuchandSuch

    CaptainSuchandSuch Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Agreed on all of your points.
     
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  3. AprilMayJune

    AprilMayJune Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Well look at you, all posting sunshine and rainbows! ;) Can I take some credit for this? (Admit it: you just knew that if this thread went south I was going to show up and ruin it with hair talk...didn't you? Didn't you?!)

    ...I'm just teasing. :) To give you an actual constructive reply here, I can't even really pin down exactly why I love this movie. The entire vibe of it just works so well for me. Like, right from the beginning, when it's still the Obi-Wan and Anakin Love and Help Each Other Show, there is, somehow, this feeling of impending doom from the get-go.

    I really love the old Jedi order, for all their occasional obliviousness and pomposity, and so watching them all get mowed down is pretty affecting and terrible.

    Also, there is SO much good and delightfully quotable melodrama in this one. "Not from a Jedi"? Gold. Actually, pretty much that entire segment is just fantastic. I will also admit to getting a total case of the this-is-so-dorky giggles every single time I hear the "...only my new powers can do that" line on Mustafar, and I LOVE IT.
     
  4. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    AprilMayJune

    You bring up a good point. I feel that this movie is the one film in which we can actually really see some of Obi-Wan's friendship with Anakin as described in ANH.
     
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  5. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    I'd say the most overall of the entire 7 episodes so far. This is due to a combination of all factors from the characters and story to the visual execution of all elements and of course JW's most masterful and emotional score. Like Lucas says his movies are in the graphics and the music and ROTS is Star Wars as SPACE OPERA personified.

    The excellent "Torn Apart" from TFA is in the mold but then stretch that over swathes of the entire movie.

    Padme's Ruminations, Anakin's Dream, The Immolation, the "lament" ie Order 66, Anakin's Dark Deeds and all those other stunning cues with the working titles that sometimes sound very silly like Palpatine's TV Set which is the story of Darth Plagueis told to Anakin.
     
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  6. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015

    I think one thing I can definitely say about Lucas is that he and John Williams really understood each other and just worked together so masterfully.

    One of my favorite pieces of music ever:

     
  7. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    This seems like a good place to compile some older ROTS observations of mine :)




    On Anakin's turn -

    The way the stage is set when we see things from Anakin's pov as he enters the room.
    Effective use of music here, the way it builds up to Anakin's arrival, and ends as we see Mace approaching an unarmed Chancellor, the music temporarily finishing for a bit so we just focus on the dialogue and sound effects.

    Although I feel Palpatine completely knew Anakin was coming, personally. The scene works either way.

    Then we have the build up in intensity as the three of them argue, Anakin vulnerably shielding his eyes from the lightning, and the thunder heard to accompany it (quite obviously linked to the significance of what is taking place).

    Mace decides to end it there, and the binary sunset theme (not sure what that piece is called) ominously plays for Anakin for the last time, as he tries to intervene. Anakin gives into his fear, and betrays Mace at the last second. Again, the music as Mace's saber symbolically goes out the window (with the Jedi Order), and Palpatine springs into action, is so fitting.

    Love the ironies of many role-reversals in the saga; here Anakin is about to go from a relatively innocent Jedi much like Luke will one day become, intimidated by the more dominant presences of Mace Windu and Palpatine, to the dominant icon of the Empire as Vader. I think these visual parallels holds some relevance to this...


    Mace from Anakin's pov in this scene:
    [​IMG]
    Because of Mace's hastiness to kill Palpatine and Anakin's actions here, Anakin of course ends up far worse than Mace as Vader:
    [​IMG]



    Anakin solidifies he has sold his soul:
    [​IMG]
    Spookily echoed when he has Luke's life in his hands -
    ROTS - "If they are not all destroyed it will be civil war without end."
    ESB - "Don't make me destroy you." :
    [​IMG]



    And to top it off, the role-reversal happens again at the end of the OT. In ESB; Luke at Vader's mercy, Vader arguably not trying his hardest to kill Luke, but clearly having the upper-hand:
    [​IMG]
    Which becomes a clear role-reversal for his son, when Luke almost goes too far and kills Vader at the climax of ROTJ. Only looking at what we the audience have now seen (watching all six films) does Luke see the true connection to who his father was and who he became, and where killing Vader in cold blood will lead him.
    [​IMG]


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    An eclipse symbolising Anakin smothering the good in himself
    [​IMG]
    A contrasting yearning in Luke
    [​IMG]




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Heaven/Hell perhaps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Obi-Wan spied on - Later more Jedi arrive and the war begins
    [​IMG]
    Obi-Wan spied on during the war - "There's no war here, unless you brought it with you."
    [​IMG]




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    ROTS: Anakin joins a Sith Master (Sidious) / ANH: Luke joins a Jedi Master (Obi-Wan). Some quotes and images...

    Palpatine: "Your fulfilling your destiny Anakin." / Obi-Wan: "Your destiny lies along a different path from mine."

    Palpatine: "Of course you should, but you're not entirely sure of their intentions." / Obi-Wan: "You must do what you think is right, of course."

    Palpatine: "Become my apprentice. Learn to use the dark side of the force." / Obi-Wan: "Learn about the force, Luke!"


    Hood on
    [​IMG]
    Hood off
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Sidious puts a healing hand on Vader after Obi-Wan dismembers Vader and leaves him
    [​IMG]
    Obi-Wan puts a healing hand on Luke when the tuskens knock him out, the beginning of a second chance at training a Skywalker
    [​IMG]






    Some stuff on the writing of Palpatine in ROTS...

    PALPATINE: (continuing) “Anakin . . . I'm appointing you to be my personal representative on the Jedi Council.”
    ANAKIN: “Me? A Master? I am overwhelmed, sir, but the Council elects its own members. They will never accept this.”
    PALPATINE: “I think they will . . . they need you more than you know.”

    Very crucial moment, this is where Palpatine really takes it up a level.
    - Firstly, as a direct representative of Palpatine, Anakin is his right-hand man, and one step closer to being Palpatine’s apprentice.
    - Secondly, it drives a much intended wedge between Anakin/Palpatine and the Jedi, who are already rightfully suspicious. Psychologically, the Jedi are going to further see Anakin as not truly one of them, and Anakin will sense this, adding to his feeling of isolation.
    - Thirdly, he is conveniently using Anakin to spy on his sworn enemy, and knows the Jedi will ask the same of Anakin in return – “I think they will (accept Anakin onto the Council)...”.
    - And finally, even though he is asking Anakin to do exactly the same thing as the Jedi will from the other side, Palpatine’s actions comes across as generous and fatherly - seeming to grant Anakin Mastership - which he probably knew the Jedi wouldn’t give Anakin anyway. With the Jedi on the other hand, asking him to spy (through Obi-Wan) is seen as a betrayal and an insult. They appear colder than Palpatine, even though Palpatine is creating this situation on purpose, and the Jedi actually care about Anakin more than Palpatine does – OBI-WAN: “Anakin, I am on your side, I didn’t want to put you in this situation.”
    Palpatine’s final line is quite ominous... “They need you... more than you know.” A hint at Palpatine’s true opinion... of course foreshadowing that the Jedi’s own chosen one will tragically become their greatest enemy.




    YODA: “Allow this appointment lightly, the Council does not. Disturbing is this move by Chancellor Palpatine.”
    ANAKIN: “I understand.”
    MACE: “You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of Master.”
    Anakin reacts with anger.
    ANAKIN: “What? ! How can you do this?? This is outrageous, it's unfair . . . I'm more powerful than any of you. How can you be on the Council and not be a Master?” (While not at all Jedi-like, Anakin’s anger here obviously partially stems from his past as a slave and a lack of recognition for his abilities, which Palpatine is capitalising on. Anakin never truly felt respected or fulfilled both as a slave and a Jedi, and his quest to liberate himself from the shackles of the Jedi ironically lead him to permanent enslavement to the Emperor.)
    MACE: “Take a seat, young Skywalker.” (Tense.)
    ANAKIN: “Forgive me, Master.”
    ANAKIN goes and sits in one of the empty chairs. Everyone is embarrassed. KI-ADI-MUNDI WHO APPEARS AS A HOLOGRAM, speaks.
    Kl-ADI-MUNDI: “We have surveyed all systems in the Republic, and have found no sign of General Grievous.”
    YODA: “Hiding in the Outer Rim, Grievous is. The outlying systems, you must sweep.” (Perhaps this holds some relevance to the fact Dooku and Grievous were doing Palpatine’s dirty work in the Outer Rim, and the real internal threat – Sidious on Coruscant – has got the Jedi wasting their efforts looking outwards.)
    OBI-WAN: “It may take some time . . . we do not have many ships to spare.”
    MACE: “We cannot take ships from the front line.”
    OBI-WAN: “And yet, it would be fatal for us to allow the droid armies to regroup.”
    YODA: “Master Kenobi, our spies contact, you must, and then wait.”
    Kl-ADI-MUNDI: “What about the droid attack on the Wookiees?”
    MACE: “It is critical we send an attack group there, immediately!”
    OBI-WAN: “He's right, that is a system we cannot afford to lose. It's the main navigation route for the southwestern quadrant.”
    ANAKIN: “I know that system well. It would take us little time to drive the droids off that planet.”
    MACE: “Skywalker, your assignment is here with the Chancellor, and Kenobi must find General Grievous.”(Bad move by the Council. Putting Anakin and Palpatine together, with Yoda and Obi-Wan on other planets.)
    YODA: “Go, I will. Good relations with the Wookiees, I have.”
    MACE: “It is settled then. Yoda will take a battalion of clones to reinforce the Wookiees on Kashyyyk. May the Force be with us all.”
    ANAKIN is disappointed.
    This scene has a very different context when viewed with the novelisation. Whether this meaning is still supposed to be there in the final film isn’t really clarified. Basically the Council has decided off-screen that they will send Yoda off-world to make the Jedi appear vulnerable, and tempt the Sith they believe is in Palpatine’s circle to make a move and come out of hiding. It technically works, but horribly backfires, as Anakin is turned to the dark side, Order 66 is executed, and Yoda isn’t there to help defend against the Jedi Temple raid led by Vader. The Council try to outplay Palpatine at his own game, but are outmatched. They just aren’t cut out for this type of thing like the Sith are.



    Wordplay -


    - PALPATINE: “I need your help, son.” (Fatherly - both in the wording/tone, and regarding the implication that the Sith were behind Anakin's creation.)


    - PALPATINE: “There are times (not hinting this era is the end of the Republic) when we must all (phrased like everyone is on the same side) endure adjustments (as if Palpatine is just as strained by them) to the constitution in the name of security.”


    - PALPATINE: "I'm depending on you."
    ANAKIN: "For what? I don't understand."
    PALPATINE: “To be the eyes, ears, and voice of the Republic...” (A metaphor for future "suited" Vader; Eyes - electronic vision, Ears - “Lord Vader, can you hear me?”, Voice - James Earl Jones’s deep menacing tone.)


    - PALPATINE: (continuing) “Anakin, you know I'm not able to rely on the Jedi Council. If they haven't included you in their plot, they soon will.” (“You know.” Making Anakin feel he is already naturally coming to this conclusion himself.) “Anakin, search your feelings. You know, don't you?” “I know they don’t trust you.” Again making Anakin’s thought process (seemingly organically) come to the intended outcome.


    - PALPATINE: (continuing) “Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis "the wise"?” (Use of language that influences how Anakin sees the Sith in his subconscious; “Tragedy” provokes relatable sympathy and “The wise” makes the Sith seem wiser, plus connects back to AOTC where Anakin suggested the Republic be led by "someone wise".)



    Warm intonation / wording -

    - PALPATINE: “You did well Anakin.” (About Anakin's first cold-blooded killing of a human.)
    ...
    PALPATINE: “It is only natural. He took your arm, you wanted revenge.” (Gently playing on Anakin's humanity and impressionability.)


    - PALPATINE: “Anakin, I've known you since you were a small boy. I have advised you over the years when I could... I am very proud of your accomplishments. You have won many battles the Jedi Council thought were lost... and you saved my life.” (Fatherly.)


    - PALPATINE: “They asked you to do something that made you feel dishonest, didn’t they.” (Like catching a child stealing. Feigned pity, when Palpatine is the one conning him.)


    -The Jedi appear more uptight, formal, and demanding of Anakin. Compare these two moments...
    PALPATINE: “You're the best choice, by far. (Warmly) Sit down. (to his aides) "Leave us.”
    ///
    MACE: “Take a seat, young Skywalker.” (Coldly)
    The Jedi Council give Anakin a Masterless seat on the Council for show, where Palpatine offers the "seat" of a position of one of only two Sith Lords.


    - OBI-WAN: (continuing) "You have allowed this Dark Lord to twist your mind until now... until now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy." ("Allowed" references that, on some level, Anakin willingly gave in to the manipulation because it was what he wanted to hear.)


    - Compare these two comments -
    PALPATINE: “You have great wisdom Anakin.”
    OBI-WAN: “I have failed you, Anakin. I was never able to teach you to think.”
    (Obi-Wan is clearly the one telling Anakin how it really is.)



    Point of view truths -

    Others have noted; Palpatine rarely flat-out lies. He is more prone to saying things that can be true or false depending on how you read them.

    - MACE: "Are you alright?"
    PALPATINE: “Yes, thanks to your two Jedi Knights. They killed Count Dooku.” (Anakin indeed killed Dooku, but no one else saw how. And he crash-landed the ship safely.)


    - PALPATINE: “I can assure you the Senate will vote to continue the war as long as Grievous is left alive.” (True, but the war was manufactured by Palpatine and the Senate is mostly full of weak-minded Senators under Palpatine's influence.)


    - PALPATINE: “The end of the war is near General.” (True, but he doesn't tell Grievous that the Separatists will lose.)


    - PALPATINE: (continuing) “Their sincerity is to be admired, although I sense there is more to their request than they are telling us.” ... "Senator Amidala is hiding something. I can see it in her eyes.” (True, but can you blame them? The Delegation of 2000 isn't sure where the Jedi stand, and they are growing very weary of Palpatine.)


    - PALPATINE: “They don't trust you, Anakin. They see your future. They know your power will be too strong to control." (I wonder why.)


    - PALPATINE: "You must sense what I have come to suspect. the Jedi want control of the Republic."
    ///
    MACE: "The Jedi Council would have to take control of the Senate in order to secure a peaceful transition.”


    - PALPATINE: “We must move quickly. The Jedi are relentless; if they are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end.” (Any Jedi surviving would indeed guarantee endless Civil War, regardless of how obviously morally superior the Jedi may be.)



    Double meanings -

    - PALPATINE: "Now they will elect a new Chancellor... a strong Chancellor... one who will not let our tragedy continue..." (Palpatine is essentially single-handedly setting in motion the real tragedy that unfolds over the PT.)


    - DARTH SIDIOUS: "This is an unexpected move for her. It's too aggressive..." (In reality Padme already told Sidious she was going back to Naboo to fight, but this is nevertheless truly how he is reacting to the fact.)


    - PALPATINE: "Please your majesty, stay here, where it’s safe!” (Coruscant proves to not be the haven it promised; Anakin turns there, and the Jedi Temple is wiped out there, plus Palpatine declares himself Emperor there, and Vader is constructed on Coruscant.)
    ...
    GRIEVOUS: “I am sending you to the Mustafar system in the Outer Rim. It is a Volcanic planet. You will be safe there.” (Mustafar proves to be dangerous to both Anakin and the Separatists.)


    - PALPATINE: “I hope you trust me, Anakin.” (I wonder why.)
    ANAKIN: “Of course.”


    - PALPATINE (ROTS): “Nevertheless, their actions will speak more loudly than their words.” (And the Jedi's actions will indeed paint themselves in a bad light.)


    - PALPATINE: “It is upsetting to me to see that the Council doesn't seem to fully appreciate your talents. Don't you wonder why they won't make you a Jedi Master?” (From a point of view it is indeed upsetting to Palpatine that Anakin is not reaching his full potential - as a Sith.)


    - ANAKIN: “I can’t live without her.” (On hearing Padme has died, Anakin metaphorically ceases to live.)


    - PALPATINE: “To cheat death is a power only one has achieved.” (Plagueis... or Qui-Gon? ;))



    Foreshadowing -

    - DOOKU: “Twice the pride, double the fall.”

    - PALPATINE: “They need you... more than you know.”

    - Palpatine describing killing his mentor "in his sleep" can be a metaphor for Palpatine's blindness to Vader's coming betrayal at the end of ROTJ.

    - PALPATINE: “I sense Lord Vader is in danger.” (Indicative of a strong bond considering the distance.)



    Parallels -

    TPM/ROTS
    - "You have been well trained my young apprentice. They will be no match for you." / “Get help, you’re no match for him, he's a Sith Lord!” (ROFL)


    - QUI-GON: "I will do what I must, Obi-Wan."
    ///
    SIDIOUS: “Do what must be done, Lord Vader”
    ///
    OBI-WAN: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must."


    AOTC/ROTS

    Anakin to Padme: “I will do anything you ask.”
    ///
    Anakin to Palpatine: "I will do whatever you ask."


    TPM/ROTS/ROTJ

    - (To Padme): “Together, we will bring peace and prosperity to the Republic."
    ///
    (To Anakin): "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret."

    ///
    (To Vader): "He has grown strong. Only together can we turn him to the dark side of the force."

    ROTS/ROTJ

    - “Good Anakin, good.” (ROTS)
    “Goood.” (ROTS)
    "Good! Your hate has made you powerful." (ROTJ)


    - "Leave us.” x2


    - “I can feeeel your anger.” x2


    - PALPATINE: “Help me!”
    ///
    LUKE: "Father please! Help me!"


    - “You will die!” x2


    - "Rise."
    ///
    “Rise, my friend.”


    - YODA: “Destroy the Sith, we must.”
    ///
    PALPATINE: “If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.”


    - SlDIOUS: “Your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda.”
    ///
    LUKE: “Your overconfidence is your weakness.”


    - (to Yoda): “Now you will experience the full power of the dark side.”
    ///
    (to Luke): “Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side!”

    - SlDIOUS: "You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us."
    YODA: “Faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be, as is your faith in the dark side of the Force.”
    ///
    PALPATINE: ”Your faith in your friends is yours (weakness).”



    (Follow onto next post)
     
  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Maul/Vader
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]








    One where TPM inverts in ROTS then inverts again in ROTJ (There are many like this).
    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - note the four Star Destroyers in the background
    [​IMG]
    ROTJ
    [​IMG]
    In TPM the Federation blockades Naboo (opening scene). In ROTS' opening scene the Seperatists are stopped from leaving Coruscant by Star Destroyers.
    Finally, in ROTJ, it inverts yet again, and the Empire's Star Destroyers stop the Rebels leaving. Note that although the Seperatists (ROTS) and the Rebels (ROTJ) are trapped (by Palpatine's machinations), they believed they were the ones that started each battle.





    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]






    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]










    "Rescuing" "non-force-sensitive friend" Palpatine
    [​IMG]
    Rescuing non-force-sensitive friend Han
    [​IMG]










    [​IMG]
    Vader states here "Obi-Wan has taught you well."
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Noticed a while back that the corresponding events between Anakin's immolation/damnation and his redemption/cremation happen in reverse order. I'll post them in ROTS order:



    ROTS 1. Immolation and lost brotherhood -
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ROTJ 4. Reunited and cremation -
    [​IMG][​IMG]


    ROTS 2. Palpatine coming for Vader -
    [​IMG]
    ROTJ 3. Luke leaving with Vader on a similar Imperial shuttle -
    [​IMG]


    ROTS 3. Mask coldly goes on (a glimse of Vader's vision now)-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ROTJ 2. Mask warmly comes off (Anakin seeing Luke with his own eyes) -
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    ROTS 4. Anakin's metaphorical death (losing Padme) -
    [​IMG]
    ROTJ1. Anakin's metaphorical re-birth (killing Palpatine and regaining Luke) -
    [​IMG]








    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    The only thing I'd change about ROTS is to make it longer! (particularly after Anakin's turn).

    Also, Anakin and Obi-Wan have the best hair in this episode :)
     
  11. DarthHomer

    DarthHomer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2000
    Still a great movie 10 years on. The other two prequels I can understand the backlash somewhat but not this one. I think it just gets lumped in with them by default.
    Some of my favourite parts:
    • The opening 20 minutes which, like the last act of AOTC, is Star Wars at its breathless, swashbuckling best
    • The tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise
    • Obi-Wan vs. Grievous - I love that it's the only time we see a fully trained Jedi take someone out with a blaster
    • The silent tone poem with Anakin and Padme staring at each other across the Coruscant skyline
    • Order 66
    • "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." Better than Shakespeare, that.
    • The scene where Obi-Wan visits Padme to try and find Anakin's location - the dialogue ("Anakin is the father, isn't he? I'm so sorry") and score is just heartbreaking
    • Everything that happens in the last 20 minutes (well, maybe except the "Noooooo!")
    I also agree about the dramatic tension, too. I actually felt more tension in ROTS than I did in TFA, even though we (mostly) knew where the story was going to go in the former.
     
  12. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Good post, I bolded some of my favorite scenes. I actually think if someone asked me to list my top 5 PT scenes they might all be from ROTS.
     
  13. theMaestro

    theMaestro Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2015
    I think the main reasons why ROTS is entertaining are:
    1.) interesting characters interacting with each other
    2.) compelling story
    3.) awesome villain
    4.) no slow parts

    Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship is actually fun and and endearing in this one.

    And Palpatine is such a great villain because his evil motivations are clear, McDiarmid's acting+dialogue really work well, and his pre-disfigured form is so menacing. Additionally, he does evil things (like ordering all the Jedi to be killed) and so this gives us a reason to get invested in the story and root for our heroes. This is especially true during the Yoda vs. Sidious fight; it feels like a heavy weight championship match with everything on the line and 2 undefeated masters of the Force. Even though I don't agree with Yoda having a lightsaber, something about this idea of pure good vs. pure evil squaring off with the fate of the Republic/Empire hanging in the balance is so compelling; this feeling is enhanced by the expertly placed Duel of the Fates.

    The narrative can also be emotionally compelling at times like during the Padme Ruminations scene or when Obi-Wan is giving his "you were my brother" speech. Overall, the story feels very important and we get to see things that were only talked about in the OT like: the death of the Jedi, the birth of Vader, and hiding Luke & Leia.
     
    AniLukeRey and Supernaut1977 like this.
  14. son_of_skywalker03

    son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    The music is undoubtedly the best in the Saga to me. It is, at present, the only soundtrack of the series I actually own. May have to rectify that before too long.
    From the moment Anakin falls until the credits roll, there is hardly a moment to pause and breath. But that doesn't feel at all exhausting. The pace feels just right throughout the entire movie. The dialogue was on point and near flawless (there's an occasional hiccup, but that's true of literally every Star Wars movie. Including the new one). George was always very aware of when to go minimalist, or completely without, the dialogue and let the previously mentioned and amazing score do the speaking.
    About the only thing I would really even consider adding/changing is putting the rest of the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight back in. About halfway through it cuts back to them now using each other's lightsabers. So clearly part of it was removed.
     
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  15. xezene

    xezene Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    • In my opinion the last hour of ROTS is pretty much perfect. The only SW climax that affecting for me would have to be the last half hour of ROTJ.
    • It's the most affecting adaptation of Faust that I know of. In this regard it is up there with Murnau's 1926 silent masterpiece.
    • The opening dive into the Coruscant battle is like watching an IMAX film, it's great.
    • The music is absolutely crushing. Anakin's Dark Deeds is tremendous. The score when Obi-Wan and Padme find out is gut wrenching, as is her funeral song.
    • I like that they are literally fighting in hell. The symbolism becomes so intense it almost bursts off the screen, symbols of eclipses and shadows everywhere. Operatic.
    • Both the spoken bits and the unspoken bits are extremely moving. From Order 66 to Padme and Obi-Wan crying to Anakin, it's heartbreaking and effective.
    • The first time I saw it, I think my suspense was at an almost all-time max when Anakin rushes to the Mace/Palpatine duel. I was afraid he wouldn't get there in time.
    • The film as a whole really humanizes Anakin & makes him the most relatable of all the films, although he is relatable in I & II as well. His tears on Mustafar... tragic.
    This x1000. My heart is broken, every time.



    What I would give to see the (finished) 4-hour cut of ROTS, before they trimmed it all down....
     
  16. xezene

    xezene Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    So, I was thinking about the things I like about ROTS and I came back to this scene again and again. I just love it and beyond that, I love Natalie Portman's acting here. I liked her in all three of the films but here she really conveys so much emotion on her face and by her body language (she was also very effective at this in some subtle moments of AOTC. It's there a bit in TPM as well.). You get the full picture here: she's a woman being told that her husband is now gone postal and she has to deal with this. She covers a lot of emotional response here, and for me she sells it; I feel that it's one small portion of her great but subtle acting in this movie. I think I get what George was going for and I love it. Combine it with this music, throw in Ewan's responses, and it's just truly tragic.

    [​IMG]

    Music:
     
  17. Supernaut1977

    Supernaut1977 Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2016
    For me, this film, more than any of the others in the Saga, contains everything that I love about SW. I consider it a masterpiece.
     
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  18. Twain

    Twain Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2014
    xezene

    That was the scene I was about to post.


    That scene and Obi Wan's final line of "I'm so sorry" is pretty perfect.

    ROTS wasn't a masterpiece imo and I would have changed a few aspects if I was ruler of the world, but it did a good job of connecting the two trilogies in a believable way. The last 30 minutes of ROTS are excellent. Again, not perfect but damn good enough. All the points that needed to be hit were hit really well and it felt like Star Wars.
     
  19. Pensivia

    Pensivia Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    I don't have anything new to add to all of the excellent analysis above. I agree with pretty much all of it and those are all the reasons that my capacity to enjoy ROTS immensely again and again never seems to wane. I've seen various criticisms of it around here over the years, and while I can see where a lot of them are coming from (e.g., "the Ani-Obi duel goes on too long/is too extreme"), it's just not my emotional response to those things (I actually think I might be fine with the duel going even longer, lol)

    Also just wanted to note that I thought this was a particularly interesting/cool point from the OP:

    I think I've only really managed one complete six-film rewatch (where I was able to fit all of each of the six films in within a short period of time), and I followed the numerical order. When I have some big blocks of time, I'd like to try the machete order just to see what the differences in experience are.
     
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  20. Evening Star

    Evening Star Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I'd like an extended cut, but with the longer attack on the Jedi temple.
    And once again we praise the hair in ROTS. :D
     
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  21. The_God_Anubis

    The_God_Anubis Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2015

    Hahaha, I laughed when I read those comments. But I must say I agree. They look very nice!

    I love RotS. It's one of my favorite Star Wars movies! :D
     
  22. SuperPersch

    SuperPersch Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004

    This! Besides Padme, Anakin, and Kenobi on Mustafar before the duel, this scene is the one I always think of when I'm pondering Lucas' style. It's so...stageplay/1930s.

    "You're going to kill him, aren't you?" She says it so...weird and wonderful.

    Amazing production design and music as well. Understated cinematography (as usual), and two of our leads just totally owning their strange space wizard and queen-turned-senator-turned-wife of a psychopath.

    I also think Tion Meddon is the best.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  23. Prospecting on Subtyrrell

    Prospecting on Subtyrrell Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2014
    I love ROTS of course, but I don't see how it is much better than I & II.

    Is it the action? Rest looks about same to me.
     
  24. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015

    For me one of the biggest differences is that it's not boring
     
  25. SuperPersch

    SuperPersch Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I don't necessarily count it as better (I find myself watching TPM more than ROTS); I would say it's bolder.


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