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suffered through another formulaic fan film...

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by Grover, Jun 20, 2002.

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  1. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    I missed no point at all. You can argue about the definition of 'Fan Film' all year long. You either like the film or you don't, but you can't lay down a set of visual rules on what a Fan Film should be. You can give your opinion, but you can't tell anyone what they HAVE to have in a film. It all boils down to taste. This movie IS a Fan FIlm... period. Now to the point of weather it was enjoyable... again it's a matter of taste and opinion.

  2. andakin

    andakin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 8, 2000
    Is this "grover" just someone who likes going around and hitting controversial topics?

    I HATE that!
  3. JediCias

    JediCias Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 9, 2002
    well... i didnt bother to read the whole story, but from what i read, you obviously hated it... WHO CARES, unless of course they were challenging you or something, i mean, you dont have to have all of the perfect things to make a fanfilm, i make my films just for the pure fun of it. i am just telling you that you shouldnt be makeing fun of this persons film. its not like there makeing money off of it
  4. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Nov 30, 2000
    GROVER ............
    Isn't he covered in BLUE FUR with a BIG RED NOSE and hangs out with a BIG YELLOW BIRD and a HAIRY ELEPHANT? [face_laugh]
  5. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    I think JediCias sees what I am saying here. You can have an opinion and that's great, but use some tact in the process. Your attitude pretty much sucks. They had fun making the film and I am sure they learned a LOT during the process. They wanted to share their project and get a feel for how they did. You decided to blast them for their work. I guess that's your right and you are welcome to it. But I think the attitude you have toward this film is unwarranted or at least poorly stated.

    If everyone that didn't like a film or a simple test clip came in here and displayed the attitude you did, I can see many newcomers packing up their computers and camera and giving up. What a loss ! Constructive criticism goes a long way. Many of the visitors here look up to the regulars for advice on how to make their films better. A swift slap in the face does nothing than dissuade them from trying again.

    Because of this thread I have added a news item to FFFX concerning, to some degree, this very topic.
  6. Shoveler

    Shoveler Jedi Youngling star 2

    Mar 8, 2001
    Hahah lol datoolman "but use some tact in the" ever realised that TAC makes up 75% of the word tact muHAUhahUAH

  7. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    Yes and it pains me when I use that word ;)

  8. Jedi_Cougar

    Jedi_Cougar Jedi Youngling star 3

    Nov 14, 2001
    Yeah, I would have to say, without having watched the film, that you guys are getting a little picky. (those that complain)

    If everything in the film was done the way "it should be" then they wouldn't be making a fanfilm. They would be "little Spielbergs & Lucases."


    Cut some slack and don't complain til you make your own Duality or Broken Allegiance.

    Oh wait, those guys don't interesting...
  9. NickLong

    NickLong Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 29, 2000
    <<Isn't that a MUPPET from SESEME STREET?>>

    Oh DEAR! TAC - you really should check your facts.

    The Muppets and Sesame Street are TOTALLY differnt, there's no character cross-overs at all.

    besides, wasn't Grover from Fraggle Rock?


    Nick "Shorty" Long
  10. Grover

    Grover Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 3, 2002
    Ha, ha, this is so hilarious...and expected.

    Out of boredom (a few days ago at work) I whipped up a "personality profile" system of forum posters...

    AND EVERYTHING THAT EVERYONE POSTED / REPLIED FITS PERFECTLY INTO THE TYPES...! I'll not reveal them now (but oh, do I EVER want to!),but will post it in a week or two...

    Holy moly, I'm not even sure where to begin...

    "I think fanfilm makers can take whatever they want from Star Wars and make their own versions/visions of them."
    ----yeah, and then others can critique them for it. that's why my post had the 'alternate title' of "the superfial
    versus the real." (please no -intellectualizers'- arguments on what is "superficial" and what is "real" ---OOPS!! did
    I reveal one of my "personality types?") I DO LOVE F/X... but NOT at the expense of the story. F/X are icing on the
    cake, that AMPLIFY what is already there.

    "I realise I'll get flak for this, but Star Wars films (for me) are all about the glitz, the action and the
    special effects. "
    ----if that's all SW is for you, then SW is no different than any other run-of-the-mill eye-candy sci-fi
    flick. Again, if so, so be it. That IS your choice, as a free person. However, SW is apparently alot more for most
    people, and this 'more' is not about the f/x. I suspect that you do like SW for these other themes, you're just trying to
    make a point...and that's fine.

    "Grover - this post is in extremely bad taste."
    ---I don't even know what this means (maybe that's why I have 'bad taste! ha!)

    "If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all. Or
    at least post constructive criticism."
    ---the "riteous, open-minded hero's" are always more narrow minded than the people they scold (OH NO, I gave away
    another one of my "personality types..." it won't happen again!)

    "And if you don't have the guts to tell the filmmaker what you think (or bother to remember the name of the film
    you are watching), then you should really keep your mouth shut."
    ---"the guts to yada, yada..." I did tell them what I think. Isn't that why everyone's whining? I watched this
    thing early in the morning, stumbled on it, AND HONESTLY DID NOT REMEMBER THE TITLE OR THE fact, immediately
    after watching the thing (and then trying to re-watch it) it went straight to the trash bin. And anyhow, SOMEONE ON

    "Saying that if people cannot do EVERYTHING to "your" standard of excellence, they shouldn't do it at all is wrong."
    --where did I say this?

    "Just because these "kids" have not had the thousands of dollars and years of training you (Grover) claim to have
    does not mean you are better than them, and it does not give you the right to be so dissrespectful to their work."
    ---again, did you actually read my post, or just get swept away in the frenzy of your forum cohorts? (boy, I'm really
    asking for it, arent I?) Disrespectul? NO, that would be telling them what they want to hear and not being honest.

    big budgets, etc... MY DAMN THING WAS NO BUDGET, NO DIRECT PREPARATION, AND ILLEGAL AT THE TIME!!! (you would know this
    if you actually checked out the site /trailer for 5 minutes!) I explicitly market the film as "GORILLA FILMMAKING..." Not
    "daddy's money and bro's video company, 1 year in the making..."

    "and i will just assume they are one of those people who think attaining a black belt is the be-all-and-end-all
    of martial arts."
    ---ha, ha! Don't I make fun of that mentality in the post itself? (I forgot, you didn't read it.) As for that
    statement, without going into detail (and getting accused for bragging for stating facts) I didn't get a 'black belt' till
    I won my first National Title in combat grappling and bareknuckle fighting... (key
  11. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    So let us see. You feel bad because your film didn't get the respect it deserved. You come here and bash another film to try and make a point. Good job Scooter.

  12. Chevalier-mal-Fet

    Chevalier-mal-Fet Jedi Youngling star 2

    Jun 14, 2002
    Ermf. Again with the missed point.

    I believe Grover started the topic in an effort to start some kind of reasonable discussion about a standard, a bar for fanfilms. Just as there are good movies (See The Shawshank Redemption, Gladiator, etc...), there are also bad movies (I'm not naming anything because someone's bound to say they love it...) - and there is some kind of criteria by which people usually judge them.

    Grover was simply saying that he likes a fanfilm to - not be professional - but to have some semblance of effort put into it. No matter how much fun the MAKERS have doing it, the people who download it aren't going to have much fun if there wasn't much effort put into making the film watchable. So the still-yet-to-be-named fanfilm was lacking in the points that Grover likes to see in a fanfilm; he used that particular one as an example exactly because of that, so he could point at so-and-so and say that a good, or at least decent fanfilm would have had some effort in that section. He's not saying every fanfilm has to be polished and professional, he's not saying that everyone needs to make a Duality or Broken Allegiance before they can upload it, he's just saying that he thinks that filmmakers should try to put some serious effort into something they intend to publish, whether it's for fun or not. After all, what's the point in making a piece of crap, even if it was fun? Crap plus fun is still crap.

    *waits for flames*
  13. Grover

    Grover Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 3, 2002
    No, my fan film isn't up yet, as it hasn't a soundtrack yet (early July)... BUT THE TRAILER HAS HAD NOTHING BUT HIGH REVIEWS...!

    And can you possibly post a reply that doesn't prove the very point I'm trying to make about some of our behaviours (<-- hey, look, 'Brit-spelling'...maybe I'll win an award!! ha, ha!)

    Oh, and I WOULDN'T HAVE MY FILM POSTED ON THE F.NET EVEN IF THEY OFFERED... I once sent in A REALLY ROUGH CUT... but got no response... Now, I prefer my own site, with reliable downloads (I hope!) where an UNBIASED VIEW / CRITICISM can be given...

    Please read posts thoroughly, droolman. (oh, now I'm playing that game!!!)

    we're gluttons for punishment, I suppose...!

    anyhoo, off to rehearsals... no, I'm not 'hiding' my uncouth head! lol!!!

    peace and clarity...

    well, just clarity!

  14. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    Wow... a psychologist and a film critic... you should have a job.

    Daft... lock this useless thread before Ann Landers attacks again.

  15. andakin

    andakin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 8, 2000
    So he doesn't just go around hitting sensitive topics...
    He hits a sensitive topic as part of his evil master plan to stereotype and categorize every single one of us!

    I HATE that!
  16. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    Take the time and troll this idiots past posts. It's pretty funny..... Then you may see what a sad individual he is. I do feel sorry for him. I guess I shouldn't, but I always have sympathy for the weak and diseased.
  17. Darth_Gehenna

    Darth_Gehenna Jedi Youngling star 3

    Jun 2, 2001
    Honestly, those that make fanfilms only for fun should keep them to themselves, while those that wish to better themselves for a future career in filmmaking or whatever should have their pieces of filmmaking torn apart so they do become better at this art form.
  18. Neszis

    Neszis Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 23, 2001
    This is totally uncalled for, Grover. C'mon man, Fanfilms aren't made to impress you. They're made to have a great time making them and having a fun final product in the end. Putting it up on the internet is the icing on the cake. And your bashing is a spot of mold on the cake. I would call you all kinds of bad words right now but this is a family board, and I respect that. Apparently you dont, because I would say that any of this crap that you post up here is like punching the person in the face.

    And something about "Daddy's money" REALLY SETS ME OFF. MANY of us are young here, and we work hard and long for our own !@#$ money. I NEVER beg my parents for things. I work and save my own money, and I made my own Fanfilm WITHOUT THE HELP OF MY PARENTS when I was only 14. Stereotyping films that have young actors in them is the worst thing you can do. If there is one thing in the world I hate besides people who bash people's hard work it's age discrimination.

    "...without going into detail (and getting accused for bragging for stating facts) I didn't get a 'black belt' till
    I won my first National Title in combat grappling and bareknuckle fighting... (keyword: "first") "

    Wouldnt that be bragging anyways? ESP the last thing in parentheses.

    "Daft... lock this useless thread before Ann Landers attacks again."
    datoolman...that was the funniest thing Ive heard all day.

    Daft, you have my permission to ban this dipwad and lock this USELESS topic. I absolutely HATE anyone who bashes these fanfilms. They were put up there for our enjoyment, after a lot of hard work, and all Grover wants to give them is a hard time.

  19. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    LOL good one Darth... I love the sarcastic tone of your post! [face_laugh]
  20. andakin

    andakin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 8, 2000
    "I absolutely HATE anyone who bashes these fanfilms"

    That's what I'm saying!

    *chants* Ban! Ban! Ban!

    And, heh, his fanfilm appears to be about GORILLAS!
  21. Neszis

    Neszis Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 23, 2001
    Heo yeah. Ban this guy unless he says hes sorry.

    Then ban him anyways.

  22. MoffJake

    MoffJake Jedi Padawan star 4

    Sep 24, 2001
    I just wanted to mention Mr. Grover that the trailer for your flick looks great - it has a very 'Hollywood' feel to it - much more so than fanfilms of recent.

    However I was confused by the last phrase "No corny names, no computer geeks, and no 'karate-dojo baton-twirling' fight choreography allowed in the making of this high budget film."

    Initially it seems like you were serious about the names and geeks and choreography because of your apparent disdain for those, but then it goes on to read 'high budget film' which confused me. Since the early part of the trailer states "no budget - all substance" I can only deduce that the last phrase is all one big joke and we will indeed see all those non-substantice things. I'll look forward to the nerdy computer work and karate-esque choreography. If it wasn't a joke, I'll hit myself for not understanding your humor.

  23. yodafett999

    yodafett999 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Sep 24, 2000
    I see nothing wrong with trying to establish a dialogue for fan films and the standards that should go along with them. However, any criticism (constructive or otherwise) of a particular film should always, first and foremost, be directed to the creators of the piece in question. That's the only way that you will know for sure that your critique is being heard and understood. If, that is, your goal is to try and help them in their next endeavor.

    If you just want to stir things up and create ill will then this is the way to go about it. Most people on this forum don't care about standards because, surprise surprise, they really are in it just for fun. Just for the thrill of making a Star Wars film. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Not everyone has the same abilities, the same tastes, or the same resources to draw on. There's no difference between a 12 year old kid making a fan film in his backyard with his best friends and a 35 year old man doing the same thing. Society may tell us that we should expect better results from the 35 year old man but that doesn't mean that we will get them. The 12 year old kid may be a great writer, giving us clear, concise dialogue and a thrilling plot. His friends may have been acting since they were 5 years old and be able to give emotional depth and resonance to the characters. They may all be martial arts phenoms. In short, they may have everything possible to make a great film and they may accomplish it. This does not mean that the other film is any less valid.

    Some people don't know professional actors so they use their friends and family. They can't find anyone in their local theater company that will work on their project for free so they are stuck with what they have. They may really have wanted someone with acting experience but it wasn't available to them. Does that mean we should dismiss them completely? I've seen independent productions with international distribution with acting on par with some fan films.

    I'll agree with you that it seems, especially lately with the influx of people to the board since the release of AOTC, that most people are building their films around a fight.....or a space battle.......or writing scenes just to include the great 3D environment that they just created. Those films, as almost all of us are aware, usually do not work and end up, ultimately, forgotten. Does that mean they shouldn't be made? No. It does not.

    People make fan films for many different reasons. Some of them use it as a chance to get some real shooting experience because they've never actually used a camera before but want to learn. Some of them are great CG artists who want to show off what they can do and really develop their craft. Some of them are great writers who have a great story that they want to tell. Some are great fighters and want to apply what they know to the Star Wars universe. The bottom line is that most people want to work on their particular talent and don't really want to have to worry whether people will take them seriously as artists. Yep, it all goes back to that fun thing again.

    You, having stated that you were originally doing yours for your demo reel, may be cut from a different cloth than most. You sound like me. I don't do anything until I can do it the right way. I won't stage a fight until I feel like it's on par with what has been accomplished in other films. Not fan films. Feature films. If I can't reach that level in my mind then I won't do it. Maybe you aren't like that, I don't know. I don't really know you. What I do know, from talking to some of the people on this board and watching most of them post on a daily basis, is that not that many of them are like that here. Everyone takes their projects seriously, they wouldn't be doing them if they didn't, but not everyone expects to rival the real Star Wars films.

    Everyone does the best that they can with the resources and talents available to them. If they aren't doing their best then that's their demon to conquer, not yours.
  24. Grover

    Grover Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 3, 2002
    Well, this will be my last reply...unless another one becomes necessary!

    "Take the time and troll this idiots past posts. It's pretty funny..... Then you may see what a sad individual he is."
    ---so taking the time to troll other idiots' prior posts doesn't reflect a sad, joke of a pathetic human being, huh? (oh, I can get personal, too!)(p.s. I don't even remember what stupid posts I've left, but I know they weren't mundane, pathetic, predicatble, and manditory.)

    "And something about "Daddy's money" REALLY SETS ME OFF. "
    ---if this doesn't apply to you, then it wasn't geared towards you! (how's it go? "Methinks he doth protest too much!") Seriously, this was a phrase I read somewhere (here?) about a particular group of FanFilms... that's the reason why I used it (paraphrased it; didn't cut and paste).

    bragging would be saying that I have around a dozen national titles in grappling and ultimate fighting, that all of my trainers were olympians or competed on the world level, and that i've worked out with (and competed against) some of best martial artists on planet earth. (but then, that's true too)

    As for "being sorry," for what? Alright, I'm sorry... sorry if anyone's feelings were hurt, and also sorry that many people aren't clear enough to step outside of their conditioning. (hence, the pavlov joke)

    It is interesting that there are some CLEAR, OBSERVANT, RATIONAL AND DETACHED replies...

    Finally, I'm moving across country after our production closes this weekend...where I'm going doesn't have internet hookup (although they may get one) and I'll be too busy to reply anyways, for awhile... (too bad about the "post personality profile..." I'll try just for some of you to get that one up!)
    The point is, if everyone is appalled at this atrocious post...WHY REPLY? LET IT GO! LET IT VANISH! but no...

    I saw no other negative replies that warrented any response.

    Oh, and for the end title of the TRAILER, yeah, that's a self-referencial joke on 'the Power,' as well as all other fanfilms, and in fact, hollywood in general... As for getting my humor, I don't either.

    Thanks for ALL FEEDBACK good and bad...

    always learning


    p.s. yes, I have a job, AND IT'S TIME TO LEAVE!!!

  25. datoolman

    datoolman Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 13, 2001
    p.s. yes, I have a job, AND IT'S TIME TO LEAVE!!!

    Like the beating you took wasn't a hint. LOL

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