Suing individual file traders. Right, wrong, or both?

First yes they can find out the large users who keep the files active in their file swapping list; and yes it's largely a scare tactic. They'll start with a handfull. Usage will go down. They'll settle out of court most likely as to not appear as monsters. It'll pick back up, and they'll issue another handfull. The process will keep repeating but bad PR and a large backlash will keep them from mass lawsuits.

Now as for file swapping and the lawsuit being right or wrong.

Is that constitutional in the US?
It is very much constitutional. But they're required to follow the law. That involves getting an injuction or court order of some kind to view online playlists with Kazaa or Morpheus. Then they would need to match IP addresses to an ISP, then they would need to obtain a court order to get that persons name. Then they would need to get a warrant to search the persons computer for copywrited material, and then to match the material to that persons actual collection to see what (if any) songs have been obtained illegally and if they hold the copywrite to it. They would also have to prove that a particular user did the actual downloading. In an apartment with 5 guys and one computer, it'd be a hard thing to prove.

If you're concerned about facing legal charges (and I could be wrong) you have two options. One keep the illegal songs off the playlist. Morpheus and Kazaa don't keep records of user, times dates and files that were downloaded to my knowledge so your playlist would be your only incrimination to start an investigation.
The second is for those that only use it to preview a CD, delete the files off of your computer altogether after you've listened to it and made your decision.
You won't have time to delete the files before they take your computer away for evidence.
If the majority of people do either of these things the spread of files would decrease dramatically and the record companies would have little to complain about. But we all know that's not going to happen.

It is far too late for them to start policing this now. Too many people download songs on a daily basis. It would be like trying to make alchohol illegal

Hardly comparative. Alcohol has been ingrained in our culture for millenia. As opposed to a couple of years with file swapping. Plus I doubt you're going to have 30 year old virgins running around with tommy guns if they enforce copywrite laws.

I think it's wrong. I think it's an invasion of privacy and it makes me think even lower of the music industry. Has it ever even occured to them because maybe sales are down because of ridiculous prices? That's the only reason I download MP3s!!!

The invasion of privacy? You're breaking the law, and you still deem yourself to bear no consequence of that infraction? (as minor as it is) That's naive and foolish. As for the price; people used to protest price gouges by not buying them, not stealing (sorry swapping) them. The price does go down as time goes on. Instead of breaking the law, why not wait six months for those you don't absolutely have to have.

why should I go pay $15-20 for a CD when there are only 3-4 songs out of 14-20

Consider it buying in bulk. You can always buy singles if you like for a much lower price. Then if you want them on a single CD, copy them to your computer and burn them onto a single CD. Amazing! Plus you could probably fit all the songs from an entire artist on to one nice CD and you haven't broken the law.

The music industry is just a bunch of greedy bastards

Your opinion of someone does not validate breaking the law against them.

with their hands in everybody elses pockets trying to steal what they can.

They are following the law, it's not stealing it's called business

And incase these morons didnt know, the internet is international

So anyone who disagrees with you is a moron?

I from the US can swap songs with someone living in Spain or Japan.

So breaking the law internationally makes it okay? As

 

Consider it buying in bulk. You can always buy singles if you like for a much lower price. Then if you want them on a single CD, copy them to your computer and burn them onto a single CD. Amazing! Plus you could probably fit all the songs from an entire artist on to one nice CD and you haven't broken the law.

That's all well and good, but 99% of songs don't have singles.

And this is basically all irrellevant for me now that my computer crashed tonight. I don't have a single MP3 left except for the ones I made into CDs. Happy?

 

If people actually bought singles they'd put more songs out.

 

Most of the singles I've seen on sale now run for about $8. That's still a ridiculous price.

 

Then boycott them altogether. Listen to it on the radio or at a friends house. My point is that it's theirs to do with as they please. If they wanted to pull a disney and lock away Purple Haze for 20 years it's their choice as long as they retain the rights to it. I honestly think P2P software has some good uses to it, but I think it's the artists decision if they want to use it to promote their band. It's actually one of the best and cheapest forms of advertisement ever.

What I hate is when people abuse technology and then the companies are forced to do things like putting safeguards on the CD's so you can't use them on a computer at all

 

Sure, it's theirs to do with as they please, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be more reasonable.

 

I'm not saying they're not making their share of mistakes. 1stAD's right in his first post. They had an opportunity to get in on the ground floor and they botched it up. CD's could definetly be lower, but like I said, if you wait a bit (same with DVD's) you can pick them up quite cheap. You only buy the new ones when it's something you really want, or if you've got the money to blow.

 

Most people that use P2P don't buy any more or any less CD's than they did before using P2P. Well, i know thats true for myself anyway. The majourity of music i have on my computer are either singles where i have no intention of listening to the entire album, or extremely rare songs that would take me forever to find in the stores. Music is something that sets us apart from other species. Its something that sets apart human beings culturaly. Its one of the most important things that make us human. Who cares if some greedy record producer only made 9 million this year instead of his usual 12 million? They want to put a rediculous price on something that was 100% free when it was first invented. In a 100 years or so its perfectly possible that it will once again be 100% free because sooner or later money will become no object and people will work and create music just out of the sheer joy of doing it.

 

Again trying to appeal to some idealistic crusade because you didn't want to pay for something that you didn't need.

The problem here is usage, not P2P software. If people deleted the songs after having them for 5 days the # of downloads would be dramatically reduced because there'd be less files available for downloads, and secondly the question of breaking the law would become more skewed as you were only evaluating the product.

The problem is that people many, not a few are using these files to eliminate purchasing of music altogether. Wether it's portable MP3 players or using CD burners. And who care if companies lose 30% of their income? You should, I do and most other people do as well. See it does affect the economy. Many people have IRA's, or straight out company stock because they don't trust Social Security to be there when they turn 65. IRA's invest in company stock as well. When IRA's go down instead of up because the company lost money to illegal activities those looking to retire soon (IE baby boomers), panic and start saving money on the side. That money saved hits all aspects of the economy, and then you have an economic downspin which affects all of us. Granted P2P software isn't the only adverse thing effecting the economy but it is one of many things.

Also artsists have always been paid for their medium. Some even got rich, way back when.

 

tenorjedi

Alot of good arguments.

I aplaude your understanding and typing ability

I especially like this one.

People put time, effort, sacrificed their social lives in some instances, and many times put their very soul into those things. It's their work, and it's theirs to do with as they please. The fact that it's not tangible doesn't lessen their rights to it. Do you think it's okay for your boss or customers to only pay you half of the time?


This is quite true. I myself "sample the music" via one or two songs and use the song name to find the album I want to buy. Assuming the person actualy got the name right. That and most of the MP3s out there are of very poor quality by my standards.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I am still very upset with Mr. Lares of Metallica fame for claiming that file swappers are stealing food from his family. Very upset indeed

 

"They want to put a rediculous price on something that was 100% free when it was first invented. "

Who's "they"? Don't forget, the artists who make the music you like are perfectly capable of showing up at your home and playing for free. But do they?

 

But do they?

Pretty much.

 

I am still very upset with Mr. Lares of Metallica fame for claiming that file swappers are stealing food from his family. Very upset indeed

Well he was overly dramatic, and a bit over the top. Obviously that statement about food hurt him more than it helped his cause. I guess he didn't like the the phrase "stealing the overly priced vehicle out of my garage".

 

As soon as they start bringing out music I like I'll buy it. (hell I bought 3 new CDs yesterday.)

It's not my fault that Spastic Ink refuses to re-issue their CD until the new one makes it to the market. Or that Bob Dylan didn't issue all his life concerts as real CDs.

I use mp3's to inform me about new bands, last time I bought a CD purly on recommendation I got a Papa Roach CD , it is a HORRIBLE CD. I've never listend to it completly, now I always listen to a few tracks of the groups before I buy it. I still use almost all the money I can on CDs. I buy 2 CDs a week on average.

Besides, 90% of the people that download music download from artists like Linkin Park, Nas, Nelly, Limp Bizkit etc. NEWS FLASH THEY ALREADY HAVE ALL THE MONEY THEY NEED.

The only artists who "could" be damaged by this are the lesser known ones , but oh wait, they LIKE having their songs shared because that way they get free PUBLICITY.

(hell I'd love it if people would go to the trouble of uploading songs of my band from to the internet and recommend them to people. That would be sweet.)

 

CDs just aren't good value these days - that's why the record companies are suffering from filesharing.
I could download whole movies if I wanted to, but I don't because I think DVDs are good value and the quality is much better. You can't make that claim about most albums.

 

Mostly gone are the days of albums like Achtung Baby, which is good music from the first track through the last track, without any padding at all. Now it's a few good songs with a lot of padding more often than not.

 

The record companies are full of it. We're just coming out of a recession. Some say we're still in it. Almost every company has seen sales decline this year and many by much more than 5%. Don't forget that the record companies had their best year ever during Napster's hayday.

I download music to try and find new artists. I love techno but that type of music doesn't get much play on Top 40 stations (which is pretty much all that I can get where I live, that and country and oldies which are aren't really my thing). If I hear a song I like I find it on Morpheus or Kazaa and see if there are other songs I like by the same artist. If so and if there are 4 - 5 good songs on the same CD I will usually buy it. I've got at least 20 CD's that I've purchased in the last year or two that I wouldn't have bought if it had not been or file swapping.

The record companies missed the boat and it's too late now. There is nothing they can do to stop file swapping. They can shut down Morpheus and Kazaa or any other company for that matter and three more just like them will pop up. Even if they succeed in shutting them all down, there is nothing they can do about peer to peer sharing apps like Gnotella. They aren't server based, there is no company behind them and they are open source.

If record companies decide to go after individual traders than I will never buy another CD in the stores again and I'll encourage my friends to do the same. I'm sure others will as well. If they do it then it's going to end up hurting them more than it will help.

 

I say eliminate the middleman... Screw Warner Bros. and screw Napster.

I'll make the music... you buy it. Deal?

It'll cost you next to nothing, and I'll still get a bigger cut than what the record companies would give me for the work I did. Then, everybody will be happy... except perhaps for greedy middlemen who haven't the slightest understanding or respect of what it takes to actually produce something of value as opposed to buying, repackaging and redistributing something someone else created.

 

Mostly gone are the days of albums like Achtung Baby, which is good music from the first track through the last track, without any padding at all. Now it's a few good songs with a lot of padding more often than not.

lol, please, just because it isn't on MTV doesn't mean it isn't out there. Please, try a little better before making comments like that.

But if you want, Dream Theater's last album, Symphony X's last album, Blackalicious last album, Jurassic 5's last album etc were all albums with good tracks from the first to the last moment. MTV doesn't play the good music but it's out there.

 

I know that. But how many are those are as high-profile as U2? I'm referring to the days when it was most bands/artists that released solid albums all around, instead of a relative few.

 

Wow TenorJedi after all this I no longer no where the music industry ends and you begin, come on out and meet Mr Sunshine. (Im not too serious about that, but I never seen anyone fight so hard for the music industries)

Now I dont d/l whole CD's, that defeats the purpose of me not liking but a couple songs on the CD.

And if I remember correctly I think the US Supreme Court already said that peer to peer file swapping is perfectly legal, so the Music Industry will have to prove how they got the song on their computer to begin with, maybe they recorded it there themselves, or perhaps their buddy sent it to them, I used to swap files with my friend on ICQ.

Fortunatley for us "Pirates" we have a valuable ally in the "Hackers" who would be more than happy to find their way through any and everything.

On a personal note, I d/l rare songs with the occaisonal hit song. Do you know how hard it would be to find the Mummer Dance on CD? Or the Princess Mononoke soundtrack? And I love Classical Music, and no industry can sue me over Beethoven, his music is gold for the ages, and his copyright expired a long time ago.

 

Nothing like music to expose some gen-xer's keen ability to justify anything illegal and immoral. Between the industry itself and its amateur pirates, I'm not sure which ranks lower in the sleeze category.

You can talk all you want about how much money the studios have; if you can justify stealing, that means you wouldn't hesitate to justify stealing from me, too. So, sorry if I don't have any sympathy for your "cause".

Snowdog has the right idea here - the middleman needs to be eliminated (the same is true in the movie industry). It's the artists that need to take the first, bold step towards that (and kudos for George Lucas for trying to do just that).

 

That's just it, though. Some consider sharing files not to be stealing at all. I don't know how many people consider giving away or sharing books to be stealing.

 

Not every instance of file sharing is stealing, of course. But many of them are.

 

I'm curious as to what you see as the difference between sharing books and sharing files. Both are people's creations, and both cost money to buy (and both can be made for free as well).