Lit "Superman" Luke of the EU

Not to mention he's motivated by a desire to do good, not, as some people think, pure apathy.

Which of these best showcase this?

 

TTT is one of the key examples, DE is another - in that Luke finds and redeems Kam Solusar

In The Shadows Of Their Fathers sees Luke dealing with the generational fall-out of a decision of Anakin Skywalker in the Clone Wars.

Archie Goodwin's Luke is a good take in Classic Star Wars, though that's much older material.

The big difference between Legends and TLJ Luke is the former never bought the idea of absolutely set predestination. Able to see futures yes, but knew it was never set, the only time he came close to buying the idea was when tangling with the Emperor Reborn.

 

To be fair to Luke's story in TLJ, he said he reacted on pure instinct when he saw Ben's future and more importantly, he didn't cut Ben down right there cuz it "passed like a fleeting shadow". Unlike poor-impulse-control Annie who done hacked Mace Windu's hand right off.

 

Well I don't get the impression that TLJ Luke believe in predestination, rather in that moment he was shocked by the possibility and acted instincually to protect the people he cared about and the galaxy. Once he thought about it for more than a second he realised that Ben's fate was not set in stone.

 

Legends Luke had nerves of steel from years of fighting C'baoth, clone Palpatine, the Vong, rogue students etc. Canon Luke never faced these things and freaked out.

 

TLJ Luke is too focused on the long game because he has a great sense of responsibility. He knows if he restarts the Jedi he will in some way be starting the possibility for new Darth Vaders, new Darth Sidious's, not to mention restarting an order that failed at upholding its mission of peace and justice.

 

Luke's focus was way off - he looked only at their failure to stop Sidious, dismissed all the Jedi had done before and had little more than a 'burn it all' "plan".

 

Realistically though the Jedi had inadvertently, from the creation of the Sith to the eventual victory of Sidious, caused alot of suffering. They created the nuclear bomb and then people stole it and created havoc for thousands of years. They finally get all the stolen bombs and now they have the responsibility to create a new one or not. Sure, they would be protecting the galaxy, but they failed previously by accidentally creating an even bigger problem for the galaxy. His plan is to get out of the way so that new protectors can rise from the light and void he leaves.

I don't agree with Luke but I certainly understand why he's so adamant they should end. More importantly it's his compassion that motivates him.

 

The thing is, the Jedi aren't responsible for all that's bad. Snoke seemingly has no connection to them and went bad on his own. So darksiders will happen anyway whether there are Jedi or not... While a Jedi might contribute one or 2, it might be better to have them to stop the Snokes than not having them.

 

I agree but in Luke's mind he wants to make room for something that doesn't accidentally create 1 or 2.

 

Except there's not much compassion or understanding there - in effect, it renders SW a story where Luke can apparently find the way to understand and have compassion for Darth Vader but nothing else. It also brings into play a form of perfectionism that's dangerously lethal. That's where Luke fails, in not understanding that he shouldn't be harsh on failures, be it those of the Jedi or his own.

What Luke also overlooks is that the dark side of the Force remains, Jedi or no Jedi. It'll still cause problems, but that's OK because Luke has washed his hands of all that. It's someone else's problem now.

The other element he overlooks is Ben's responsibility. SW has a tendency to allow students to pass the buck onto their teachers, but a teacher's responsibility to and for the acts of their student is not absolute, it has a limit and the student's own sense of responsibility takes over after that point. It's notable in this respect that the Jedi tend to better than the Sith at owning their actions, whereas for the Sith or, in the case of the ST, for Hux, Snoke and Kylo, there's always someone else to blame.

 

He's compassionate because he's willing to end himself and the Jedi so that something better will rise without his influence, all because he wants people to not suffer at his potential failures. And, you're right, Luke is being overly perfectionist and harsh on his own failures, but that's the point of his arc. His responsibility is more than most and naturally he is going to hold himself to a very high standard.

Well, yes, obviously he knows this, but his point is that actively moving aside he is actively causing anther light to rise. Something he hopes to be better than him. He doesn't want to cause more damage so he thinks that a fresh light will be better to face the darkness.

Well, yes, and ultimately that's where the movie comes down. But it's natural for someone like Luke to consider the long term effects of his actions. He isn't blaming everyone else, in fact he is blaming himself for others actions, only because gave them training. I think this is a natural thing for someone like Luke to struggle with - he's obviously going to feel bad for training someone who went on to do terrible things, and the extension of that, recreating an order that may go on to fail again and to have members use their training for ill.

Naturally I agree with you, but I understand why someone like Luke would feel the way he does he and I think it's motivated by his sense of responsibly and compassion.

 

I don't even understand why you even bother mentioning this when we don't even understand how Luke's order even operated in order for it to become that vulnerable. It's not compelling just because it happens to Luke. You really need more substance than that.

 

It's based upon the Old Order with whatever alternations he thought necessary. He obviously thought it would be an improvement and it failed and he took it badly. It's still an extention of the Old Order not a brand new thing.

Luke also mentions it as one of his reasons why the Jedi should end. He obviously thinks that it's a more fundementally problem, not some small change.

 

You mean those alterations that were never specified in the film?

 

We are in the literature forum. It's specified in their book.

 

It is? What changes did he make?

 

Spoiler

With regards to his training of Leia it is noted that Luke differed in his philosophy in regards to attachment. I believe it also notes Luke disagreed with their general conduct in their last year's, but I can't be sure.

 

No, no, this has got to be a failure of text-based discussion not being up to the topic, because, suicide isn't an act of compassion. (And it really desn't fit with the rest of your post.)

True, many of those who commit suicide will have that mindset, they will have the view that the world will absolutely be better off without them - but it's not true and the tragedy is they didn't have Yoda to come along and pull them out of their own personal abyss as Luke did.

 

I didn't mean suicide, although I know how you thought that.

Luke's is a struggle more to do with a cross to bear and exiling himself for the greater good. Removing himself from the game, but not through death. It's an act of compassion in the same sense as his final act.

Again I don't agree with Luke. I just think it's in character.

 

If Luke is the Superman of the EU, does that make Luuke Bizarro or Nuclear Man (from Superman IV)?

 

His plan worked too. He can't know that, because he's cut himself off from the Force, but it does. Enter Rey and Finn and Poe, each of them embodying a different aspect of Luke's character in the original trilogy (sort of an inverse of the three prequel villains adding up to Darth Vader). One hero went away and we got three in return.

 

How does anyone know the plan worked? Finn and Poe spent the whole of 8 making things worse inadvertently.

Rey showed extreme recklessness in charging off to "save" Kylo, based on a Force vision.

Rey's a nice girl, but Anakin was a nice kid once. As was Dooku presumably (nice enough to be knighted and made a master) and Luke was nice and messed up badly. Nothing we have seen shows us that Rey is definitely going to do better than any of them did, or definitely prevents her from making their mistakes (and with the recklessness shown in 8, she's not off to a great start really).

 

Well, Starkiller Base used to be a thing.

 

Hosnian Prime survivors would argue that if Luke actually stuck around, told the NR everything he knew about Kylo etc, they could have stopped Starkiller before billions died.