Lit "Superman" Luke of the EU

Yeah, he essentially hit his lightsaber's on-switch in shock after getting a massive dark side jump scare, then almost immediately calmed down.

Yeah... I must say that I've long disliked the Force being portrayed this way. Any time Troy wrote about a Jedi's "skin nettling" from the energies, or whatever, my jimmies rustled.

I was kind of hoping that the new canon would actually run with the "size matters not / only different in your mind" stuff, for a change. "Channelling huge amounts of Force energies to perform amazing feats omg" isn't something I've ever felt the Jedi are meant to be about.

 

"Dark side jump scare" is a fantastic way to put it.

Every time I see TLJ, I think more and more than Luke didn't die from the Force projection, he willingly surrendered himself to the Force. Yeah he's debilitated after the projection is over, but by the time he climbs back onto the rock and stares into the sunset, he doesn't seem wounded anymore. I really wonder if he COULD have survived, but chose not to, knowing he had to become the legend.

 

I was annoyed that Yoda seemed visibly strained in AOTC.

The mechanics behind using the Force have never really been explained, why some people are stronger than others. We've seen people in TCW that have powerful life Force but they aren't Force sensitive. So it seems generating a lot of life Force isn't the same as being strong in manipulating it. Since midi-chlorians are an indicator, it might be that you're channeling it through you, which I suppose is where the idea comes from that you can overuse it.

Kylo Ren is familiar with it, and Luke didn't find the texts until after he stopped training Kylo Ren, so that would seem to indicate there isn't a correlation.

 

There also seems to be a general notion that certain powers and abilities only come from extensive training or study, whereas the films tend to show the use of powers to be a lot more instinctual than that. Luke, a Jedi Master, needed to confront Kylo Ren but wasn't able to leave his island, so he called upon the Force to help him and bingo, projected himself.

 

That was my interpretation of that moment almost exactly. Luke more or less recovered from the strain of the Force projection, but chose to become one with the Force. The legend of Luke Skywalker would carry on in his place, accomplishing more than Skywalker himself possibly could.

 

This is different from, say, Obi-Wan Kenobi sacrificing himself to save Luke. If Kenobi hadn't, Luke and the others would have been captured/killed trying to rescue him.

Luke had no reason to choose to die based on what a legend of his actions may or may not do. The Jedi mandate is to preserve life when possible, including one's own. Luke continuing to live would not have cost anyone their lives. If Luke actually did choose to die and this is glamorized, then TLJ goes against even more of the Jedi way as previously established than I thought.

 

TLJ is simply working from the ESB copybook of the Force being more about focus and determination than aptitude.

Yoda struggles more with the pillar thingy than the X-wing because he's got a hell of a lot more going on and it comes, quite literally, out of left field.

The projection is a super-charged mind trick, having an influence on people who are most certainly not weak-minded.

 

It's not ideal, but I've got no problem with the idea it's mentally taxing to suspend your disbelief to the point you can do a lot more with less*. Which is what I've always taken the X-Wing lessons to be about.

Luke's not being taught how to channel an "X-Wing's worth" of Force. He's being taught he doesn't need an X-Wing's worth of Force.

That's why Yoda is so initially impressed when Luke begins to make it move. Luke isn't struggling to shift the ship because he's channeling loads more energy than he did previously, he's struggling because he isn't and he's trying to overcome the difference between the rock and the ship he has in his mind.

EU author after EU author missed this point. Or, more charitably, interpreted things differently. And it seems the NU may be following suit.

Not the end of the world. Just not my own preference.

* And in Yoda's case he's in the presence of a Sith Lord, so he's got a dark side cloud or w/e to work through, too. I may or may not be influenced by the way Jerec was described in Dark Forces.

If we can take Qui-Gon's ELI5 at face value, midi-chlorians are the medium through which one can consciously "hear" the Force. More midi-chlorians = less need to quiet your mind = more naturally talented.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that someone could be really sensitive to the Force while at the same time not being that strong with it. And vice versa. (Indeed, that's how I view "lucky" characters like Han.)

Still, I'm not really caught up on TCW so maybe there's something I'm missing there.

That you can overuse it seems pretty clear but I tend to feel that should fall into the same "abuse of the Force" category as choking people to death or throwing lightning around.

I would prefer to view it this way, but I feel like Kylo's comments earlier in the movie RE: "the strain would kill you" are meant to be seen as foreshadowing, to an extent.

 

I like to think there's more to the projection than influencing minds, that there's actually something there. The dice didn't vanish for a while, even after Luke died (one final troll).

It seems like there's ambiguity as to what extent Luke was able to influence, as with Leia he seemed to be able to kiss her forehead (as it seems like it would be silly to mime that), but then with Kylo Ren maybe he can't "project" an actual lightsaber to block which is why he avoids making contact, and having his feet actually move the salt would require high concentration.

 

I also imagine that anything tampering with the projection makes it harder to maintain it as you have to "fix" it to keep the illusion going properly, Luke had to reform himself possibly several times over during the barrage or wholesale drop it then come back, either way, the effort took more out of him then it probably would have if he just dodged everything.

 

Its properties are different, sure, but the intent and overall function of it is that of a mind trick. There is, objectively, an image there of course, and a presence.

 

Where I'm having trouble is Kylo thinks that Rey is doing the projection trick at the start when it's just him and her, and he thinks the effort of that would kill her. And he tries to mind trick her mind trick, if that's what it is, before realizing she's not doing the projection.

Plus Threepio saw Luke, and you can't mind trick a droid. OR CAN YOU?

 

In Legends, Threepio also saw Luke's Force projection and believed it to be real:

https://i.redd.it/im9rapbn1c401.jpg

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The projection seems to physically exist as Kylo is able to pick up Han's dice and hold them until they vanish, this leads to two possibilities, 1) Luke can actually appear somewhere, physically tangible by focusing more power into it then dial it back to only being a very convincing illusion or 2) only Force sensitives can interact with projections but everyone else can only see them. I personally think it's the former since the dice are a thing Kylo actually picks up but earlier on, his saber didn't cut anything.

 

That doppelganger ability in Dark Empire can physically interact with the environment.

 

I think the Luke on Acht-To was a projection that was projecting the one on Crait.

Projections all the way down.

And each one looks older than the last.

 

There is a reason why Luke is a superman in the EU
I go through many tests and many challenges so it is natural that he is a superman

 

inception

 

Did he or did not force away lava to demonstrate the Force to one of his students in Legends?

THAT sounds more kick-ass than a Force projection. The walker bit just feels strange in a SW film, especially the ensuing shoulder brush. I haven't seen the movie in weeks and I'm still processing it. That felt more in place in an actual Superman or DBZ movie or episode.

Granted, there's also a chance Luke might still be able to come back a la Gandalf or Aslan. Unlikely, but it's possible.

 

Luke should have forced away lava in TLJ, I agree

 

Actually, no, he WALKED on lava....WOW. In Jedi Search, apparently.

Or I could be wrong, everyone knows the reliability of wiki's.

 

Yep. Jedi Search.

 

I like how this thread slowly became literal

edit: you should definitely read Jedi Search btw

 

Very strange KJA wrote Luke as being able to repel lava in Jedi Search? Because it was already established as far back as 1983 in the ROTJ novelization that Anakin could not do this...

 

it's interesting to think of how many SW conventions are derived from either Tom Veitch, Timothy Zahn, or Kevin J. Anderson