Superman Returns

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by General_Quenobi, May 15, 2006.

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  1. Emperor's Prize Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 1999
    star 4
    I gave Ottman's score a re-listen and, quite frankly, I found even less to enjoy this time around. Outside of overusing the Main Title from Williams, it's entirely pedestrian.
  2. dvader234 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2005
    star 1
    I don't know why everybody is being so hard on this movie. It was definitely the finest film released this year by far. I actually thought it was better than Batman Begins, which I loved, and on par with the original Superman.

    As for the score, saying that the main theme was overused is insane. Ottman used it thoroughly, but never to excess. Should I remind all of you of another film which may use varations of its main theme throughout. ;)
  3. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    I'm not laughing at your opinion, just the fact that you called him Ottoman. His name is John Ottman. Look at the bold text, please.:p

    I guess I can't expect much common sense from a 27 year old.:p
  4. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    QFT

    By far the best film of the year. I just came back from the midnight showing of Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest and I wasn't all that impressed with it. My philosophy is, you know it's a quality film when you actually want to go back to see it multiple times. I don't have that desire with Dead Man's Chest. However, I'd be glad to see Superman Returns a third time, possibly a fourth or even fifth.:D

  5. Emperor's Prize Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 1999
    star 4
    Disagree all you want, but it isn't insane, mate. It's a subjective opinion. For me it *was* overused. And, as others have stated, unvaried. That aspect was only worsend by the fact that I also thought everything Ottman did on his own was entirely nondescript.

    But for those that thought that the soundtrack fit the movie, I would have to agree. Both were subpar. :p
  6. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Didn't Ottman edit the film as well?
  7. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    I seem to remember something about that.

  8. Boba_Fett_123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, he did.

    I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with the many occurences of the main theme if there was at least some variety. Instead, it sounds like Ottman just edited in the same exact performance every time he wanted to use the cue.
  9. mverta3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2003
    star 1
    Don't get swayed by the "everything's subjective" argument. While you can't tell somebody what they like, they may well like crap. And if they listen to mostly crap, they won't like the good stuff anyway. It's just human nature. Comparing the utter talentless hack that is Ottman to John Williams as anything approaching equals is insulting. We're talking about entirely different UNIVERSES of talent. Just raw ability alone sets them at virtually opposite ends of the spectrum to say nothing of training, technique and decades difference experience. If you think writing crap scores for a few films makes a composer ready to weave golden-era Williams into his music, you've grossly underestimated how good John is, and how insanely difficult that task is without coming off like a kid who's playing with his Daddy's gun. Which is exactly what happened here, and Ottman blows his brains out in the process. John Freaking Ottman. Give me a break.

    The music sucks, hope you like it. That about sums it up. If you'd seen it with a better score, you'd be able to see the difference in a nanosecond. Or maybe not. Doesn't really matter. Hey, when's Spiderman 3 coming out on DVD?

    _Mike
  10. Boba_Fett_123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    I'm not sure I'd say that it totally sucked. Like most...well, all of Ottman's scores, it was forgettable. It's certainly no Williams, but what is? I'd say that it did it's job well enough, and while I can't remember for the life of me what is sounds like, the cue for the Lex beatdown was pretty cool.

    I certainly hope that you don't expect every score to be on par with Williams, Mike, because you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. There isn't another John Williams, and there likely won't ever be, which sucks, especially if the only replacement we get is Ottman. But the guy isn't god awful, and he has plenty of time to get better. Besides, it's not like Randy Newman scored the movie or anything (THAT would have been painful).
  11. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Unfortunately, This shows you are not open to debate. Shame really, as I've agreed with a lot of what you've said on this thread.
  12. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    To say that Ottman is a talentless hack is ridiculous. I think we need to remove John Williams from the pedestal that everyone seems to hold him on. Yes, Williams is quite possibly the greatest film composer out there, especially when it comes to writing themes, but that doesn't mean that we have to consider everyone else pure and utter crap. There are musical moments on the soundtrack that gave me goosebumps, particularly the track How Could You Leave Us?

    *prepares for the launching of poop*

  13. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    (DISCLAIMER: As a person who enjoys the soundtracks of X2, Spider-man, Spider-man 2, and Pirates of the Caribbean and considers them, with the exception of X2, great works, my opinion may not hold much weight around here.)

    I found "Memories" and "Rough Flight" to be excellent and memorable, and I don't believe that the main theme was over-used. While I can't agree with Cmdr. Thigh about Superman vs. Pirates: DMC (I would see the latter again many times, while Superman I only plan on seeing again to see it in IMAX 3D,) and thought that Superman Returns had kind of a weak finish, I thought the score was quite good, and if somewhat forgettable in sections, makes up for it with some excellent and memorable cues throughout the film.

    And despite the complaints by some of butchery, Ottman's handling of the opening credits still gave me goosebumps!
  14. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    I believe the opening credits was an exact copy of the original opening credits, except he omitted the introduction part.

  15. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    I agree! Being only 18 years old, I've never heard that played on the big screen, but when I did, I too got gooesebumps.
  16. Well_Of_Souls Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2001
    star 5
    Aside from a few slightly sped up sections and the deletion of the second statement of the Superman March at the beginning, it is pretty much identical. Not up to the standards of the original recording by the LSO, but pretty decent in my opinion.
  17. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    That's right, I'd forgotten about that.

  18. vader_is_da_sith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2002
    star 1
    I have a question, when Lois Lane was sneaking aboard Lex Luthor's yacht, there was an opera music playing in the background. It's a famous piece but I don't know its name... can someone help me out?
  19. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Habanera from 'Carmen'. I think...Commander Thigh has seen it more times, so he might know.

    It's not so much Williams praise here, but more Ottman bashing. I'm willing to say that Goldsmith, if he were still alive, would write a great Superman score. Debney could also have done something great.
  20. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    And the people are bashing Ottman because it does not meet John Williams calibur.

    Yup, it's definitely Habanera from Carmen. My face lit up when I heard it playing in the yacht.:D One thing's for sure, Luthor has great taste in music.

  21. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    I bought the soundtrack and I absolutely love it! John Ottman composed the music beautifully. Even when I first heard the music during the movie, I knew there was something special about it.
  22. Emperor's Prize Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 1999
    star 4
    For the record, the fact that Ottman is not John Williams isn't my problem. The problem is that the quality Ottman's own work with the score is completely poor (IMO) -- a problem which is made even more evident when his work is clumsily woven into the incredibly above-standard themes written by Williams.

    EDIT:
    Misquote.
  23. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
  24. Emperor's Prize Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 1999
    star 4
    You are most sincerely welcome. :p
  25. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Just to make this clear, I do agree with you.:)
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