Superman Returns

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by General_Quenobi, May 15, 2006.

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  1. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    Okay granted that no composer [for Superman] could ever reach the standards of John Williams but for what it's worth, Ottman did do a great job with the score. When I was watching the movie, I was truly captivated by how deep and sorrowful the music was. The music is part of what helped me to enjoy the film as much as I did.

    But to each is own I suppose.
  2. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    AGREED

    I always get chills when Superman and Lois are lifting into the air above the Daily Planet building. The strings during that scene are amazing.

  3. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    I'm the same way. The music to that scene was just incredible, my spine tingles with the music and it fit so perfectly.

    I really love the music that is played when Richard, Lois, Jason, and Superman in the plane and then Superman says that he has to go. That music is just so heart-wrenching.
  4. Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 6
    i have to say the best music is during the scene where he leaves Lois, Richard, and Jason in the plane and rises above the clouds and you see the sun shining and him building up his power. very emotional and moving
  5. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    Agh! Now you guys have forced me to put in the soundtrack! Haha...I just can't get enough of listening to it.

  6. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    I can't get enough of this music either!!! The music is just so emotional and it captivates you right till the very end. Even some of Luthor's themes are tight!

    Have any of you checked out the special features from the CD? They are totally sweet! (insert into the comp. cd player. You need quicktime.)
  7. sithgoblin3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2001
    star 3
    I thought the score was fairly lackluster. I wish they'd hired a stronger composer who had the ability to create a new Superman theme. I associate the Williams theme with Reeve's Superman, not Superman in general. A new theme can, and should be, composed.
  8. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    Well to each is own. On the special feature from the CD, it was talking for the reason that Singer choose Ottman to do the music: they were friends back in film school (<--- at least I think it was film school but they were just really good friends.) It would've been great had John Williams done the music but I really love Ottmans' style. It's something fresh, something new.

    I'm listening to track 6. How could you leave us? I really love this song. It is so powerful and makes you wish for that longing that is Lois & Superman.
  9. sithgoblin3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2001
    star 3
    Yeah, they were friends in film school. But Singer shouldn't hire someone just because they're friends. He should get the best person he can, and while I don't loathe Ottman as a composer, he is far from being one of the greats. And Superman deserves a great composer.
  10. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    And I do agree with you on that point but like I said, to each is own. From my point of view Ottman did a heck of a job (sure it's no John Williams) but I think it fit. And I accept your view if you may not agree.
  11. Son-Of-Suns Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2000
    star 4
    Perhaps he also hired him because he produced good scores for Singer's other films? I love the score for The Usual Suspects and X2, but I only like the theme to Apt Pupil and not the entire score.
  12. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    I wasn't planning on writing a review of the soundtrack, but my post sort of turned into one. :p

    I was on vacation this past week and there was no computer, so my MP3 player pretty much stayed attached to my ears the whole time. It gave me a lot of time to listen to the soundtrack.

    Track 1 (Main Titles) - It's naturally the best track, simply because it delivers the excitement and adrenaline that defines Superman. From 1:31 to 1:47 is probably my favorite segment of this track, the Superman fanfare. After this comes the love theme played beautifully by the horns, another moment on the track that is great.

    Track 2 (Memories) - This track is pretty good. It begins with a nice rendition of the Kent family theme on the oboe, then quickly builds to a shot of Clark running through the field, accompanied by an exciting percussion rhythm. It's fun to picture the movie in my head while the music is playing, but lately the track has somewhat lost it's magic. I'vefound myself skipping it more and more.

    Track 3 (Rough Flight) - Simply put, it's amazing. I love the action in it and I especially love the slight emotional swell that happens as Lois looks out the plane window and catches a glimpse of Superman darting by (2:10 to 2:19). Then the music as he grabs the plane's wing and the woman looks out at him (4:01 to 4:24)...it's amazing. Another very small part of this track that I consider a gem occurs from 4:29 to about 4:45 or so. It's a rapidly descending minor arpeggio ostinato in the violin section. Being a violinist, I look for moments and phrases like those and try to play them because they just stick with me. But anywho, the choral part that joins in during that segment is fantastic. Truly one of the better tracks of the soundtrack.

    Track 4 (Little Secrets/Power of the Sun) - It's breathtaking. It begins as Lois and Clark are in the Daily Planet building at night, alone. Lois heads up to the roof for a smoke. The music changes to a 6/8 meter around 0:30 and it's simply lovely from there to 0:55. I can just picture Clark watching Lois as she ascends in the elevator. It's a perfect combination of winds and strings. Then the track moves on to Power of the Sun, where it sounds like the piano and harp share a wonderful duet. In this scene, Superman flies out of the plane after Richard, Lois and Jason have rescued him, and goes up to the sun to regain strength. Then when the horn comes in at 1:43...it's kind of like it's announcing the emotional climax that's about to occur. There's a nice little trumpet gem in there at 1:49 that plays the beginning notes of the Superman fanfare. Then comes the violin and soprano melody that just soars...it's quite an emotional moment in the track that gives me chills every time, especially when the rest of the choir joins in. The next part, which accompanies Superman bursting through the clouds and plunging into the sea, is rather anti-climatic. It seemed a lot more stirring in the film.

    Track 5 (Bank Job) - I can't say that this track interests me very much. I've never been a fan of heavy percussion. It's a nice ominous and creepy cue that does its job well in the film, but it doesn't do much on its own. I skip it eight times out of ten.

    Track 6 (How Could You Leave Us?) - Another one of the better tracks on this CD. It starts out quietly, then you hear the Krypton theme. The weird thing about it is that I can never tell whether this occurence is played by a trumpet or an oboe. They sound indistinguishable to my ear, and I'm really anal about stuff like that. Maybe someone with a more trained ear can tell better than I can. But anyway, we hear the same horn phrase from the beginning of Power of the Sun, then a variation of the Love Theme played on the piano. The music throughout this segment is quite beautiful and really adds depth to the dialogue being exchanged in this scene. The strings lift off as Superman and Lois do, and we're joined with female voices. The rest of the choir and more strings join in and
  13. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I like "Rough Flight" - 2:16-2:42. Unabashed superhero music... the rest of the track, mediocre action music.
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That eliminates a lot of the composer/director relationships. Because 90% are based on friendships more than who is the best alive.
  15. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    That's true -- but a lot of the older friendships have substance. When making the original "Superman", Dick Donner's first impulse was to hire Jerry Goldsmith, who had worked with him on "The Omen", but then it switched to John Williams being available, and back again, several times. Likewise, Spielberg always hires John Williams for a score, and the results are never less than incredible. But Singer/Ottman? Give me a break. Sorry, I think these guys are hacks, and not fit to shine Donner and Williams' shoes.

    The following podcast sums my feelings up:

    http://media20a.libsyn.com/podcasts/fsmpodcast/FSM_Podcast_014.mp3

    The bit about chord harmonies is very edifying. For objective, clear-thinking minds, it reveals the gaping disparity in the backgrounds, and subsequent well-springs of talent/ability, of John Williams and John Ottman. SR's score is inorganic, brash, disjointed, patchy, uninspiring pap. Just like the film. To me. Personally, anyone that chooses to honour Ottman's work here not only honours Ottman, but dishonours the incredible training and craft of John Williams and his stunning contributions to Superman and popular cinema. JMO.
  16. -Commander_Thigh- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, the chord harmonies bit was really good...it really shows the talent gap from Williams to Ottman.

  17. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    Loved your review commander thigh.

    I just can't get over how great the music is. My favorite tracks are 3, 6, and 12-15. I really love track 12 the most though because that is when Superman decides to go back and Lois is so worried about him. It's also when Richard sees that there is more to these two then they try to let on.
  18. rodan70 FanForce Chapter Rep

    Chapter Rep VIP
    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 4
    John Ottman has alot of talent. I loved his score for X2 and Superman Returns is better than the X2 score. It took me forever to find the soundtrack cause I live right next to Metropolis, Illinois, The home of Superman. Superman Returns is a Very emotional movie and Ottman's score really helps tell the story. but of course, John Williams' Superman theme was used in all of the right places.
  19. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    While I have not seen the film more than once and I am not yet too familiar with the score, I must say the attitudes, arrogance and outright condescending nature of some of the posts in this thread are borderline staggering. Really wow.
  20. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    Months later, I can honestly say that Memories, Rough Flight, Power Of The Sun, and Saving The World remain near the top of the 'Most Played' list out of my IPOD's 8 days worth of music... it may not be the Williams original, but this score has both beautiful themes and staying power.
  21. Well_Of_Souls Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2001
    star 5
    I haven't listened to Returns in months personally.

    Williams' Superman, on the other hand, I come back to almost weekly.
  22. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I don't even own Williams' Superman score.
  23. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    I do... but I still prefer Returns at the moment. Then again, take that with a grain of salt, as I also prefer Courage's Superman IV to the original, too. So maybe it's just over-listening burn-out. But frankly, I think that Superman Returns has enough individual merit that, even if it can't stand up to the original Superman March or the Helicopter Rescue scene, it can still go toe to toe with most of the Superman music out there.
  24. Cellist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2003
    star 4
    I still listen to the SR soundtrack every day. It's amazing.

    AGREED

  25. SWJaggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2003
    star 4
    I can't stop listening to the soundtrack either. I listen to it every day if not every other day. This music is just so magical.

    No disrespect to John Williams because he did an outstanding job but I much prefere the Superman Returns score since there is more depth and feeling to it.
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