Superman: the original movies

With Superman Returns coming to theatres this summer, I thought it would be appropriate to go back and revisit the original Superman films.

I know I watched them as a child but I honestly remember nothing of them. I saw the 1978 Superman last night, in preparation for Superman Returns.

To make a long post short, it wasn't very good IMO.

The FX work was great, especially for the time. I did believe that a man could fly. But it was all character introduction and exposition. There was almost no story. The threat of Lex Luthor and the missiles lasts maybe 10 minutes of screen time. He's the "villain," and he and his nefarious schemes are hardly in the picture, and barely come into play until the end.

To an extent, Luthor only seems to hatch his plan so he can annoy Superman. It's not like he has this plan and Superman finds out and comes to stop him. He creates the plan specifically so he can screw with Superman.

And where in the heck did Luthor come across the conclusion that Kryptonite would be lethal to Superman? There's, like, nothing to support his assumption that it would even exist, but that pieces of Krypton have made it to earth is not impossible. But then he immediately assumes that they will be radioactive, and makes the further leap of being totally sure that the radiation will be lethal to Superman, as a Kryptonian, but completely harmless to humans.

The really annoying part is that he's right. There's nothing to lead him to this knowledge, he just suddenly knows it because the writers were lazy.

Overall, there's not much story in this film. It's a lot of exposition and relies on people's excitement to see Superman on the big screen -- and their understanding of his character and story -- to carry it through. Total shorthand when it comes to his relationship with, like, everyone.

We hear Lois Lane and we're supposed to cheer and know that they're going to end up together. It's treated like a foregone conclusion that they're an item, there's hardly any development here. We're supposed to believe that Superman would literally turn back time for her (don't even get me started on THAT) when he's known her for what seems like two days, and for most of that time she's been arrogant and standoffish. I don't buy the relationship at all.

I'm going to rent Superman II soon. Since they were written and filmed simultaneously I'm going to assume that the bulk of the story resides in the second half.

What do you guys think of the original films?

M. Scott

 

i like superman I and II equally. what i liked the most about II was the fighting other kryptonians and him losing his powers temporarily

 

They're sure to take away my Kryptonian Drivers License, but I have to agree with you for the most part. I used to hold Superman 2 up on such a high pedastal. That is until I caught it recently on TBS. First of all, it's not even scored by Williams, it's "inspired" by John William's score. The result is a load of keyboard renditions of his themes from the first film.

Secondly, the effects. At 8 years old, the battle between Superman and General Zod and his goons blew me away. At 33, not so much. It's pretty bad. Not at all the knock-down drag-out fight I remember from my childhood. Perhaps this means Superman IV is better than I give it credit.

I still love the films and long to see Superman 2 as Richard Donner wrote and envisioned it. Perhaps one day WB will make that happen.

 

Someone has to say it in this kind of thread...

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought Christopher Reeve was the perfect choice for Superman. And still one of the best portrayals of the man of steel so far. Even surpassing DCAU Superman.

I thought it was a great movie, myself. An almost perfect retelling of Superman's origins. Heck, to me that was the plot.

 

Perhaps this means Superman IV is better than I give it credit.

No. It is not.

 

When I was a kid 1 was all I watched. Soupman was my first words according to my dad But now that I'm older, I like 2 better, I can sit thru it without getting so figdity like I can on 1.

~PK~

 

The two films were originally one film, but due to past legal issues, the Salkinds had to make it as two films back to back. Read the whole story at http://supermancinema.co.uk/

Trust me, it's interesting.

 

Well, I watched the movie when I was much younger, but I knew of Superman from the DC comics and the occassional airing of the Christopher (the other 50s Superman)television serials/series(?), and I did connect and enjoy those brief moments where I 'recognized' the persona or character of Superman, however, even at that young of an age, I could also be critical and there were many aspects that confounded me and how the writers went about presenting this character in their estimation or criteria. For instance, and I addressed this in another thread, Lex Luthor ending up as a comical genuis. From the comics published at the time and the writers and artists who worked on the titles prior to the movie, my impression was clear in regards to Lex Luthor, a no nonsense character with a tragic past bent on killing Superman. Yet, there he is and no fault of actor, Gene Hackman,as he's just doing his job, as assigned to him, of acting. I won't pretend to guess how the writers arrived to give this incarnation to Lex Luthor, I thought I was watching a milder form of the three stooges but without them and embodied mostly in a 'never has been' sidekick portrayed by Ned Beatty. No fault of his either. You've already made your points on which I agree with, so no need to go over them, but the most glaring part, certainly is that 'time travelling' THAT was perplexing and just made no sense to me. I did not read, in an exclusive manner, all Superman comics, so maybe I missed this aspect of his powers, but ev

 

For the most part, the Lex Luthor of the films was based more off his early incarnation in the Golden Age. Long before the Superboy/Lex story came about. In the beginning, Lex was just a simple criminal scientist who was being road blocked by Superman. The Superboy connection was added around the start of the Silver Age. Since Donner and the Salkinds were avoiding Superboy, Lex was reverted to his Golden Age roots. With a bit of a modern flair. A fast talking, wheeling dealing, son of a gun. Rather than wearing the purple and green jumpsuit and using robots, this Lex was into using his mind and was more into real estate than anything. Elliot S. Maggin would use portions of this in his Superman novels. Later, Marv Wolfman would take that idea in a more realistic manner, as part of his proposed revamping of the character in 1984. But it would be two years before he and John Byrne would put that into use, which is the current version. Mark Waid, Dan DiDio and Eddie Bergenza decided to infuse elments of Smallville into the Superman mythos.

The joke about Lex's hair came from Hackman's refusal to shave his head or wear a bald cap throughout. He did come up with the joke of many different hair pieces. And would wear the bald cap only for the prison scenes. Kevin Spacey, who has shaved his head in the past, had no problem doing it for the new film. Michael Rosenbum would do likewise.

You should be a bit grateful for this version of Lex, as the Salkinds original idea was someone who was more like Woody Allen.

 

So I saw Superman II last night.

...it was a little better. Though again, Lex arbitrarily decided (correctly) that Superman must emit alpha waves and thus be traceable, Superman got a lot of new one-time powers, and could someone PLEASE explain to me how he regained his powers when his mother said it could NOT be undone?

Was it the Kryptonian equivalent of being sent to bed without supper? In comes Jor-El "Here you go, son. Don't tell your mother." Way to undermine your own script, guys.

And how did he and Lois get AWAY from the Fortress when he could no longer fly? I thought it was in the arctic, was it really just up in Big Bear or something?

It's apparent that the only one I've actually seen before is Superman III, as I recall things that happened in neither movie so far. We'll find out sometime soon.

M. Scott

 

I respect the 1st Superman film for getting the Superhero movie trend going but...in regards to the film, I just don't find it as good as everyone else. Granted, it's a good film, the first hour is perfect (From Krypton to Smallville and even to Metropolis a little) but once we get into Superman mode (what should be the most exciting part) it kinda lags a little bit. And don't even get me started on that scene where Superman turns back time...

 

You guys are all wrong. The first Superman movie is considered the best out of all them and one of the best superhero movies of all time. To most fans, he is Superman. I disagree 100% with you all.

 

Oooookay.

But, uh, WHY do you disagree? These are all pretty valid points that people have brought up.

 

In response to Darth:

I don't think anyone's disputing that Superman: The Movie is one of the greatest Superhero films of all time. I also don't think anyone is disputing that Christopher Reeve is the Definitive Superman. What I think some of us are disputing is the quality of the film and how it holds up in 2006 and that it is in some people's eyes a tad (just a tad) overrated.

 

I've never particularly cared for either the first or the second movie, but it's been a long time since I've seen them. I'll probably rent the first two in preparation for Returns later on, so I'll let you know what I think then, but I remember finding them rather tiring as a child. For my comic book/superhero fix when I was a kid, though, it was Tim Burton's Batman all the way.

-Paul

 

Ooh i loved part 1 & 2, but part 3 is a guilty pleasure of mine! i own them all on DVD. You gotta admit the scene in "Superman 3" where Vera the Nazi old lady got sucked in the machine and became a Fembot was scary but cool!

Supergirl was also a guilty pleasure of mine, i have the 2-Disc limited edition DVD! Helen Slater was such a babe in it.

 

The only part of Superman 3 that I enjoyed was the Superman VS. Clark fight.

 

Yup that part was kickass, but what did you think of the robot sequence? freaky, cool or kind of laughable?

Well when i was a kid, that freaked me out along with "Magic" ( the killer dummy flick) and "Dark Crystal".

 

That scene's just TOO freaky for my tastes...still creeps me out.

 

I love the Superman Movies.
I have seen Superman I, II, and III many many many times, but i think i only saw IV a long time ago, in the theater, and
dont remeber much except Lex made some super dude to fight Soop.

Anyways,
I is a classic and well done. I always liked Lex's character, although i do see how some who know the comics may be upset...
I also question the turn the world backwards time travel. is that from the comics? or a movie invention...

And is it me, or does anyone else want more Jimmy Olsen

Superman II is the greatest. Zod and company are great bad guys and i love all the humans reactions to the things they do...
I love the big dumb one, who doesnt speak, and Zod is great. I love how they are in the beggining of Superman I.
I admit, watching now, perhaps the fight scenes could be better, but i stil enjoy it! My favorite part is when Clark goes back to the diner and takes care of business with the rude guy, and then turns to the Chef and Waitress and says, ive been working out...hahhaah


Superman III, is really funny, although i havent seen it in the longest time. I love richard Prior, and for soem reason the only scenes i remeber are Superman making the coal into a diamond, Superman Turning bad and messing up the oil tanker, and the end where that lady gets eaten by the robot machine and turned into a robot?? I think that gave me night mares.

I assume this new superman to be incredible, i cant wait

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It sure sent a great message.

"Remember, if you CAN beat someone up, you SHOULD. And petty revenge is a good thing, kids. Even Superman does it."

I KNOW that gave me nightmares.

You forgot Supes getting drunk and the surreal fight with Clark Kent. Now that I recall loving.

M. Scott

 

These movies were funny to watch for the first time, though several parts were a bit far even for a comic-based movie. I'm not sure if I could go back and see them again and again but they are definitely a huge part of Superman history.

 

it's been a while since i've seen Superman III and IV. doesn't the red kryptonite get brought into the story in III?

 

Here's the thing. Marlon Brando filmed scenes for both Superman I and II. But Brando filed suit with the Salkinds, which he won, but prevented the footage from Superman II from ever seeing the light of day. Until Bryan Singer got the right to use the footage from Brando's estate. All hologram footage in Superman II was of Jor-El, much like in Superman I. But because of the suit, Lara was used instead. Jor-El and Lara both decided that if he wanted to be with an Earth woman, he would have to give up his powers. Cut from the film is the rest of the scene where Clark puts the crystal into the control panel and Jor-El reappears. He tells Clark that he figured that he would want to return, so he set up a backup plan. All of the power in the Fortress would be infused with Clark, thus giving him back the power. But Jor-El would never be able to speak to him again. Jor-El blasts Clark with it and appears in a human like form, before disappearing for good. Clark's face heals and his powers return.

In the films, the Fortress is in northern Alaska, near the border to Canda. There was probably a transport, in case Kal-El ever did decide to give it all up.

A list of the changes and differences.

Richard Donner's version of Superman II can be seen in all the Lex Luthor scenes (but look at some of the ending battle Fortress scenes where the guy who falls off Non clearly isn't Gene Hackman); in all the scenes where Lois Lane clearly looks different from shot to shot (The Daily Planet pre-street battle scene in particular; she is wearing more eye makeup and her hair is straighter); and in all the brawling scenes in the diner, including the part where Clark Kent goes back to the Fortress alone.


Battered Clark Kent in the Fortress was the first scene that Chris did when he arrived on the set in early 1977. Shot was completely refilmed by Richard Lester.


All scenes involving Brando and Hackman, particularly Brando were done first, which explains why Chris had to complete SII "Jor-El restores Superman's powers" scene early on before Brando left. You''ll notice that Chris's hair is much longer when combed as Superman where his powers are restored and in the other scenes involving the villians and Lex. And that his cape is more thickly padded on the shoulders. These are all early 1977 scenes before Chris' look was perfected.


At the end of Superman II when Lex walks out to the exterior of the Fortress his hair gets longer as Chris' gets shorter. Chris, or course is bigger with the more traditional cape because a few months had gone by between filming interiors in Shepperton and exteriors in Pinewood.

Donner's opening for Superman2 - Lois compares a photo of Superman in the newspaper to Clark who's standing outside the office --she draws a hat and glasses on the photo then screams "Oh My God!" and rushes out next to him. Perry stops her short of accusing him of being the man of steel by telling her he's sending the two of them to Niagra --she elbows Clark in the ribs and says "We could fly up there, huh Clark?" -wink wink- Later she point blank accuses him of being Superman and tells him she's willing to bet her life on it --she jumps out the window and in a split second everything in the office room stands still -- except for a streak heading down the stairwell followed by blowing newspapers --On

 

wow. that's a lot of stuff