SW literature vs. regular lit (newbie qustion)

Hello.
I'm new here and I have some questions.
I've always loved the SW movies, but started reading literature in general just recently. Nothing fancy, just fiction(Tolkien stuff, Chandler's Marlowe novels - stuff like that).
A couple of days a go I picked up a SW book called Jedi Search from a friend. I read it... well to be frank I read the first 50 pages. To put it bluntly that was a waste of good paper.
So I went to this friend to criticise his bad taste and he agreed that the book was very bad, but said that not all SW books are that bad.

So my question is how does SW literature hold up to regular literature?

 

In general, It is very good. There are occasional pieces of bad writing (KJA's trilogy, the crystal star, etc.), But those are far outwieghed by the good. My personal favorites are the X-wing books by stackpole and allston.

 

It's not up to Tolkien or Chandler, mostly, though there are exceptions, but as far as fluff goes, it's, on average, better than your typical bookshelf-clogging fluff. Very little of it would qualify in my book as capital-L Literature.

 

To clarify my criteria a little, I don't like works of fiction that have some deep message to relay. (I think some big shot director said messages are not meant for movies) I don't mind messages but for me a message is no exscuse to write a novel.
As long as the book has some quality to intrigue me it can be compleatly empty.

 

On a whole, it's great. At least it is if you learn to skip past authors you dislike. In the New Republic Era, your best bet will be to read the books by Stackpole and Zahn.

Stackpole wrote the early X-Wing novels, which detailed the rise of the New Republic through the eyes of Rogue Squadron - an elite squad of the best of the Rebel Alliance's pilots. Some of the characters in this would prove to be important players in the final New Republic Era stories, as well as in the NJO. Stackpole also made I, Jedi - a story that covers the major events of the Jedi Academy Trilogy, thus allowing you to skip those.

Zahn produced the "core" Novels of the saga, all dealing with the Empire as a threat to be reckoned with - in a manner that stays true to the movies, rather then a gaggle of incompetants or as cartoonish supervillans as seen in lesser Star Wars Books and Comics.

Also worth checking out are the Black Fleet Crisis and the Wraith Squadron Trilogy, although the former has dull points, and the latter has too much humor for some people's tastes.

 

Let me put it this way. I HATED to read fiction when I was younger. I've always been a Math/Science/Tech/History person and from ages 6-13 all I read was nonfiction. Then after AOTC came out I decided to delve into the EU since I have always been a SW fan. I've probably read a good 2/3 of the adult novels, and the only ones I haven't enjoyed on any level were Children of the Jedi, Planet of Twilight, and The Crystal Star. To this day SW is the only type of fiction I read for enjoyment. So if you love what some would consider "Classic Lit," SW books will dissappoint you. If you just want fun reads that when combined form an epic 60+ year tale, SW books won't let you down.

 

Star Wars cannot compare to other literature until they stop writing as though only teens are the core audience. It wouldn't hurt to exhibit something other than Star Destroyers, Corellians, Rodians, Twi'leks, X-wing fights, hotshot pilots and forever endless movie quotes that they think warm the nostalgia inside our frost hearts.

It's pulpfiction akin to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms: put out the quantity, but only the occasional title is quality. A horse with a uni degree doesn't make her a professor; Star Wars is produced with the holy movies in mind, and thus all products are targeted based on that foundation, and will continue to do so for another decade.

I think it's funny. Funnier, when the occasional outstanding title gets flak fire for offering something different to the slushpile.

I'm delighted to add LOTR, on the other radank arm, is nothing more than endless description where characters take great pains to get their songs right. Nothing exciting happens all book long. They just talk and walk and sing and drink. With action scenes lasting mere sentences, this is the grand epic you think it is? I'm not dazzled by this monumental, sacred percepted "masterpiece." It's English-syntaxed (like Doctor Who novellas), utterly one-sided, one-gendered, and stereotypical of its 1940s climate.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps endless topographic/flora/fauna description is orgasmically exciting reading.

 

To be blunt, 90% of all Star Wars EU literature sucks badly when compared to regular independant fiction (as in non-fluff lit, thus we exclude ST, Forgotten Realms, and a lot of other crap). There's a few gems, like Traitor and Cloak of Deception, that are exceptional and are worthy of the title of literature.

 

Like Dark Rendezvous?

 

Well, i guess the words have been taken right out of my mouth.

 

I think that the definition of "literature" is very subjective. Many pieces of "real literature" seem to be overhyped supermarket trash to me. I find making a distinction really unecessary-- what does it matter as long as you enjoy it?

 

Hmm... it... varies?

If you want something that tells a good story within the SW context, try the Heir to the Empire trilogy by Timothy Zahn, which picks up the story five years after Return of the Jedi, and is regarded by a lot of old-school fans as everything that the Jedi Academy Trilogy you started on is not. I guess you could say there's a message in the Zahn stuff somewhere, but in a way, it's really just good characterization...

If that doesn't work for you, try Tatooine Ghost by Troy Denning. Stand-alone Han/Leia adventure, set a few months before HttE.

Failing that, another tack - Traitor and Shatterpoint by Matt Stover; not so much "novels with messages" as novels about messages... only tangentially related to the movies, both are still Star Wars, and both can stand alone...

Something I didn't find too satisfying, but which you might enjoy is the MedStar duet (Battle Surgeons and Jedi Healer) - basically "MASH in space", by the scriptwriters of those trendy Batman cartoons... light adventure, but faintly Chandleresque...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Ya know, i picked up Shatterpoint while i was in Borders and i read through a few pages and it was actually a pretty interesting book. My birthdays coming up so i'll probably ask a friend for that.

 

Just so you know, many consider Jedi Trial to be the absolute worst EU novel. I actually turned down an offer to have it bought for me, since I didn't want anyone paying full price for it. In my experience, the books range from great to terrible. I've actually cried at the end of three SW novels. They have varying levels of action vs. intrigue, but you probably don't have to worry about them being too message-oriented. (Which isn't to say that some of them don't make you think.) I would advise you to thoughtfully read reviews, and remember which authors you like.

 

The thing is, star wars literature, unlike normal literature, doesn't need any of the normal elements of a book. Some people may see it as bad because they are just blind to the truth, Star Wars is vast, its books are each great, no matter the language or the plot or anything, they exist to tell a story, and every bit of that story is a lot more important to the whole scheme of Starwars than another book is to itself

 

So, which authors are good?

I've been reading the "SW Lit not considered ?real? lit?" thread, and I understand a little more now about literature.
There are some things I'd like you to eqplaine to me. One poster said for a certain author that he has little command of the language.
What does this exactly mean?

 

"I've always loved the SW movies, but started reading literature in general just recently. Nothing fancy, just fiction(Tolkien stuff, Chandler's Marlowe novels - stuff like that).
A couple of days a go I picked up a SW book called Jedi Search from a friend. I read it... well to be frank I read the first 50 pages. To put it bluntly that was a waste of good paper."

Well in my opinion the star wars movies don't even stand up to Tolkien, Marlowe, Dickens, and other writers of classic literature.

Jedi Academy was pretty much at the movies level... Just pure escapism fluff. I think they used to call the books dime novels, penny dreadfuls, and pulp fiction way back when. While the movies of the type were called b-movies and matinee serials.

People see them or read them to be entertained on a more base level, not to have their mind expanded. I know for me star wars movies is more like fattening comfort food, I enjoy because it tastes good but contains empty calories.

Where as high literature is more like a balanced diet, that has all the right nurishing ingredients. I might enjoy both to some extent but one is certainly going to be better for me in the long run(high forms of literature).

To me even with the star wars books that are at a higher form than the movies, and most star wars books I feel as if there are still better choices out there that are far more enriching. Why learn from a generic facsimile of philosophical ideals when you can read from the original sources.

But just like being on a diet its ok to eat the occasional comfort food as long as you do it on moderation. I mean all work and no play makes me go crazy. As long as something is written its going to be some form of lit.

BTW, there is no such thing as true and false lit, just low and high forms of lit.

Even things we consider high forms of literature now weren't necessarily considered high forms of literature when they were originally written. Works of authors such as Jules Verne for example were often considered low fiction when they were released shunned by the literary elite, but now are considered works of classic literature to be discussed by english majors the world over, and found in literature courses. Ulysses was shunned when it first was written considered to be rather base but is now its a perrenial classic.

 

What do you mean high literature will be better for you?

 

Zahn, Stackpole, Allston, McDowell(?), Denning, Stover. That's about 28 novels right there, with at least 7 upcomming books too. They all have their flaws, but they tend to not get in the way of one's enjoyment of them.

Some people swear by Luceno, but I can't stand his works - try Cloak of Deception out, and see if it's your style. If so, you're in luck, as he tends to write a lot of the important stories.

There are also a lot of people who like the Republic Commando series, which I haven't read, but are still probably worth while.

 

The difference between real lit and SW is that real lit has to actually be GOOD.

SW just has to have SW on the cover. And it doesn't even have to make sense, use continuity or logic at all. The characters get taken at face value, no matter what they say, even if they are blatantly lying.
Readers still think it's "canon". Even when it's so obviously lying because it's the villain of the story. It annoys me to no end. Three versions of one event can't all be the real one. In one of the FH books, the same guy was in two battles at the same time, in two different places in the galaxy. That is just impossible. Only in SW....

That's why only the movies are real canon to me, and the rest is speculation, it's fun and enjoyable, but the movies aren't really even compatable with the EU at all anymore. It's like the same universe, but not the same timeline. The PT era EU seems like part of the movies, because they aren't random, it's a contination of what the characters are doing until the next movie, with no OC's really, and no glorification of EU author's pets. Just a straight story.

 

In one of the FH books, the same guy was in two battles at the same time, in two different places in the galaxy

Who's that and in which battles? I never even noticed that

 

It was one of the generals. i think Kreiffey. It was one scene. Does anyone remember who? It's been a while and about a million pages. But there was a lot of ranting at the time.

 

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while i'll agree on the second point - there's some pretty bad SW books, real lit doesn't have to be good. Classic lit generally does, though, or else it would not have withstood the test of time. while SW books are entertaining, i don't see them as a while withstanding the test of time, except as a case of 'successful media-tie-in-lit'. none of them are particularly groundbreaking for science fiction. i feel Tolkien is really only considered good lit because it essentially created a whole genre by trying to create new mythology.

 

Wow. Some people in this thread are even more pretentious than I am.

The only thing that makes any lit worth a hoot to a reader is -- the reader. There're many examples of classic literature that gazillions of English professors gush over that I don't care for and that don't do anything for me, and that's okay. And if it's a Star Wars novel that touches you, moves you, changes your life -- then for you, that's good literature. I do pity people who read nothing but SW books and their ilk, because there really is much better stuff out there, and tons of it, but I . . . will shut up now before my pomposity overwhelms me, and dive back into my sixteenth century Chinese lit.

 

It's what you enjoy, basically. Much older literature is more than I can stand, to be honest. My English teacher took a major disliking to me, and nearly failed me on several occasions, because I just couldn't stand Dickens. A Tale of Two Cities is one of the worst novels I've ever read, and I was quite vocal about this in class. When we were assigned an essay, I went on forever about how the characterization was lacking, the plot contrived, and the writing overwrought. I had good points, but apparently disliking a "classic" author is disallowed.

As far as SW novels are concerned, I only consider one to be high literature, and that would be Shatterpoint. The rest are just pulp fiction, really. Nothing against them, but they're not Salinger, Vonnegut, or Huxley.