Saga SW Saga In-Depth In-Depth Discussion Thread

True, but you did seem to be saying that my bringing-up of the changes was in effect 'distinction without a difference,' or 'even if there were changes, they didn't actually alter anything about the feel or style.' But actually - as we seem to agree - whether changes to a story will affect the feel depends greatly on one's point of view.

I... am not sure what the relationship is between this and what I wrote?

As to the Emperor as Sorceror, I think you're right on with that (not only what he 'felt like' as a character but also what was kind of intended by the filmmakers). For others who seem somewhat miffed at the notion, it's not that he was 'just' a random sorceror, it's the difference between Palpatine as continuing the Sith political and cultural project directly, vs. as only one kenobi says, being the 'black heart' but one which operates entirely on his own terms.

 

There was a change in who Palpatine was, but the lack of distinction in Vader's boost is that he's still talking about the Jedi. Not the motivations behind saying that.

It's relation is the lack of concrete detail surrounding what will happen. That in Trek, we don't know the context of the future conversations, until we see them in context. Here, the context of what leads to Anakin's destiny aren't so clear, but the end result is.

 

Of course they are. They're telling different stories. The PT is about the fall of a Republic. It's a darker and morally complex tale. The OT is about the fall of an empire. It's the type of story that is bound to have a happy ending. Judging from the endings of each trilogy, there are bound to be differences in style. As for the difference in data, I'm in a quandry over this. Aside from Obi-Wan's claim that Owen Lars was his brother in ROTJ (which I found improbable in the first place), what real data differences marked the two trilogies?
.

 

ANH and TESB largely differ in style and structure. They're part of the same trilogy no less than the OT and PT are part of the same Saga.

 

Owen being Obi-Wan's brother didn't make it to ROTJ...It's only in the novel and a cut scene from the shooting script. I concur it sounds really odd and improbable in the novel, not really believable to me either.That's maybe why those lines were cut from ROTJ. So there is no real data inconsistency here (movie-wise speaking).

A couple of bothering "data" differences :

• Leia's memories and clear feelings about her mother in ROTJ, which is HERE pretty consistent with the storyline that was envisioned by Lucas in the shooting script and the novel (Mother Skywalker fleeing to Alderaan with baby Leia and dying some years later), and rather contradictory with Padme's death in ROTS when Leia and Luke are 30 seconds old.... The "connection through the almighty Force" explaination being really phoney and contrived to my opininon. Really strange that Luke has no memory at all by the way...
• Ben Kenobi in ANH : "Owen didn't agree with your father's ideals. He thought he sould have stayed here and not gotten involved.....Your father wanted you to have this (lightsaber) when you were old enough." Not really consistent with the PT...At least with what's showed and conveyed onscreen. Anyway out of tone now.
• Tarkin in ANH : " Surely he (Obi-Wan Kenobi) must be dead by now...". Strongly implying that Ben Kenobi is quite older than he is now supposed to be with the PT (57).
• Vader's line in ROTJ : "Obi-wan once thought as you do (turn him back)." Doesn't happen in ROTS...
• Obi-Wan's line in ROTJ : "I took it upon myself to train him (Anakin) as a Jedi". In TPM, Obi-wan only agrees to train him because of his master and the promise he made. He even strongly disagrees about Qui Gon's defiance of the JC about the issue on Coruscant...Rather inconsistent. Even if, indeed, he eventally agrees to train the boy.
• Obi-wan's lines in ESB ; "Was I any different when you taught me ? ("Too much anger in him...)...As I was if you remember ("You are reckless !")". Not believable now that Yoda's implied to have instructed Obi-Wan only as a little child in the PT.

Although not unbearable and rationalisable some way or another, it's clearly there for many and really hampers the whole as a completely cohesive saga. Especially for OT Era aficionados I guess...

 

1) Conceptual nature: It's true that in the OT, because the rebels are just a band, the Jedi are practically no more, and the Empire is the so-called embodiment of evil, the characters are able to create what we know rather than in PT, the characters are created by what we know/see. I do not think that makes for a better movie (if not done right of course) but I see that you're saying. The rebels and the jedi were what Luke/Leia/Han did. The empire was faced by Vader and the Emperor. In PT, the senate was a standing body in which people like Padme and Bail found purpose. The Jedi was an order that Anakin and Obi became limbs of. This is not bad for making a movie, but it is different than OT. Basically, it is more organized. OT could be called more improv simply because the rebels has a goal but not a structure, the empire was a structure apart, and the jedi no longer had any rules except no dark side.

2) Mysticism: What you speak of when you say "back-stories ruin the effect" is mysticism. Many against PT say similar things. If not nostalgia, they speak in terms of the PT "ruining the mystery of the force and of the emperor, etc. etc. This concept of the emperor as the divine evil is not lost simply by telling of his rise to power and how he was a Sith Lord disguised as a senator who outmaneuvered everyone in the galaxy. Though I am biased toward histories and backstories, the fact still remains. The point of it is that, no matter the being, it is still the force-light side or dark side. The being is still just an embodiment. Really, that's why the emperor is not "the great evil", he's the embodiment of the "Great Evil". And he functions for the selfish, hateful, insidious darkness. Vader as the Chosen One makes the most sense seeing as Luke would have been a pile of meat had he not turned back to the light and, as prophecy foretells, vanquished darkness [just as he vanquished light in the PT]. Again, I think the concept being pushed is that Good/Evil is not black/white like the OT [and even the PT a bit] made it seem. We see from the PT how even the Jedi change. Obi further changes. Yoda's teachings are even more wise. And, ultimately, the Jedi order is made again different this time. Because Good (Jedi) and Evil (Sith) is not black and white. Evil is not the man in the mask or the sorcerer in the cloak. Evil is what's within them.

3) Lucas Wants: Yes, he wanted to show how good becomes evil. And, in doing so, show the ambiguity of 'what is evil.' He says is best in his interviews. I would quote if I could remember the exact line but it is in episode 3 bonus disk. Whether you think he failed or not, the point was to show his transformation into Vader and to further tell of the dark side (the great evil) and how it changes you [hence: changing the name]. He gave us a hero, yes but one that was similar to Luke in many ways (very different yes but of the same mind on some occasions). He was this Chosen One yet it also shows how unorthodox a hero can be. A former slave, lovestruck, murdering, tusken slaughtering, unruly, egocentric, (etc. etc.) man is the Chosen One. This lovable, nice, kind, compassionate, caring, loving, general of the republic, defender of the people, yet innocent, prideful, debatable man whom people know and love is Vader?

 

What's your point?.

 

1. That has been debated sooooooo many times. SO I'll just go with force vision.
2. I thought it was consistent. From what we see it 20 years, he's pretty much telling whats happened from the time Ben dropped Luke off, to their meeting after rescuing Luke from the tuskens.
3. I thought it implies that seeing that all the Jedi were pretty much wiped out during the purge, that Obi Wan has probably died too. I don't see no contradiction.
4. Obi did try to speak some sense into Anakin, before the fight, he tells Anakin to let Padme go and even at that, he doesn't go all gung ho. Then he tries to reason with him again about Palpatine being evil.
5. not really he does take it upon himself, he didn't need to seeing that he agreed with the council, but in the end he did and thus began a wonderful relationship.
6. Children can be wreckless and patient, you can just watch supernanny to even see that.

 

First off, welcome to the boards. Thank you for a well thought out post.

The problem I have with Anakin being the 'Chosen One' isn't due to it being a toss-up between Luke and Anakin - it is the very idea that the 'Chosen One' element creates in the story, and the sense in which it alters the conclusion of the 'saga'. In the OT alone the figure of 'The Emperor' is important only within the personal story of Anakin's redemption. The rebels defeat the Empire and, very and clearly separately, Luke and Anakin defeat 'The Emperor'. What the 'Chosen One' arc does is it conflates the two - so that the destruction the Emperor is the destruction of the Empire - so that nothing the rebels do will matter unless the 'Chosen One' destroys him.

Tied up with that, but a distinct issue, is the nature of the 'Chosen One's' creation - conceived by the 'will of the Force' so that the Force, once free of allusory tropes and inculcated doctrine/dogma, is now lumbered with a human-like conscious agency and morals.

I think you may be right when you say "He says it best in his interviews". In terms of the film...I think he missed entirely what makes 'good' people do 'bad things'. It's a slow process (a seduction), baby step by baby step - where the means are justified to the ends until, at a certain point, the means and ends become jumbled so that they are essentially the same thing - 'what I desire to be' - and then the ends are justified in terms of the means.

What doesn't happen is what occurs in ROTS. In fact what we end up with is one of the most dim-witted 'anti-hero' figures of all times. Think about what we see. He believes that Palpatine is a "good man" and, when Palpatine reveals himself to be a Sith Anakin is angry. As he has every right to be.he has lied to everybody. He has been behind both sides of the war. He has been involved in plots against Anakin's wife. He has lied about who he is to Anakin throughout his life.

So, this guy tells him "I beg you. Use my powers to save your wife from certain death"

Now, this is far enough. I mean the guy is a complete liar and Anakin knows that. And he has plotted against Padmé, or at least been involved. He doesn't give two figs about Anakin's wife.

So...ok, when he sees Mace Windu swinging for him he might think 'but he might know a power'. See I could let it slip up to there. But then....as he is down on his knees Palpatine tells him "Only one has...blah blah, but I'm sure that between us etc."
Now...HELLO! So, Anakin doesn't at this point think to himself 'hang on, you said "use my power" but you don't have it. You've lied to me and the galaxy about who you are, what you believe in and you've lied to me again'

Nope. no Siree. he just accepts this and then the ideas that he has to kill the Jedi, and younglings, in order to learn this power that....his lying master has just told him he doesn't actually know.

Just how much stupid is there here? This is stupid piled up upon stupid. this is stupid beyond any stupidity I have seen. He is like a concentration of all the stupid in the galaxy arriving at a single point of infinite density .

I don't care how much I'm supposed to believe he is desparate... there is a limit to just how dumb a character can be believed to be.


'The Jedi's next move will be to kill the Senators'
'Um-er...I'm not sure why but I'll go with it, yeah.'
'You've got to kill the Jedi'
'Duh, ok'
'And the kids'
"Duh-hu'
'In order to have the power to...do something I don't know how to do'
'Okey dokey'

A story of how 'good people' end up doing 'bad things'...if they're really, really...really stupid.

 

Covered by the fact that through the Force, Jedi can see the future and the past. Even without making an effort to do so. Anakin had visions of the future and Yoda says to Luke that he can see the future, the past and even the dead. Luke not seeing Shmi isn't a contradiction since not every Jedi can see the same set of futures. This is why Obi-wan didn't see Anakin's visions.

The Lightsaber is considered a lie by Obi-wan. Not that big a deal. Even in Lucas's notes, Anakin didn't know that his wife was pregnant when he became Vader. As to Owen's feelings, this is still true because Anakin went off to fight in the Clone Wars, which did not end well for the Jedi. Much less the Republic.

Still not a contradiction. There were bounty hunters and lowlife scum out hunting for the Jedi, alongside the Empire. Not to mention that 57 year old men can die of a heart attack.

Not really. There's thirteen years of stuff that happened. Plenty enough to believe that a Jedi could come back from the dark side.

He kept his promise to Qui-gon when he didn't have to. He had made up his mind before Yoda took him aside, that he was going to train Anakin without the Council's permission. Which he even says.

How? Obi-wan would have had anger in him as a boy. And he was reckless growing up and later as a Jedi. Padme says that the Obi-wan and Qui-gon were far too reckless. In AOTC, Obi-wan dives out the window to grab the droid carrier in order to find Zam. Pretty reckless.

It tends to help if you pay attention to what Palpatine is saying. He never said that he knew how to cheat death. He said that through him, Anakin can learn the ways of the dark side of the Force, which the Jedi deem unnatural, and become more powerful than any Jedi...even Yoda. If he dies, any chance of discovering how Darth Plagueis was able to cheat death, would be lost. He states that only together can they figure it out. Palpatine's knowledge and Anakin's raw power. Anakin attacks Mace because he didn't want him to kill Palpatine. He didn't intend for him to die, but because Palpatine killed him, he now has to go forward and join Palpatine. The Jedi will never forgive him for what he has done.

The Jedi going after the Senate is because there are those who are loyal to Palpatine and thus wouldn't turn on him, so long as they believe in him. Or they're being paid off to do so. By implying that the Senate is in danger, then so would Padme and thus prompting Anakin to act. Killing the Jedi is only logical since the Jedi would kill all the Sith. If one Jedi survives, the Sith will die. We see this in the OT.

 

Well, listening to the dialogue reveals something quite important. The idea is put into Anakin's head in the opera scene - that a power is known that can save 'the one's you care for...from dying'. Palpatine works on that by stating outright to Anakin "use my powers, I beg you, to save your wife from certain death" - you don't think that is meant to imply to Anakin that Palpatine knows this power? Or that that is what Anakin believes to be the case? Even though,as he kneels before Palpatine, he says that he will do anything he pleads..."..just help me to save Padmé.."


Let's say what you are inferring is correct - that Anakin doesn't think Palpatine has this power - all that does is push the stupid further back and holds it in place for longer. He is trusting his fate to a man who has deceived him his entire life who he doesn't even think knows how to save his wife? Hmmm, yeah, that makes so much more sense...

 

I am correct. Here's what is said in Palpatine's office.

ANAKIN: "I know there are things about the Force that they are not telling me."

PALPATINE: "They don't trust you, Anakin. They see your future. They know your power will be too strong to control. Anakin, you must break through the fog of lies the Jedi have created around you. Let me help you to know the subtleties of the Force."

ANAKIN: "How do you know the ways of the Force."

PALPATINE: My mentor taught me that me everything about the Force...even the nature of the dark side."

ANAKIN: "You know the dark side?!?"

PALPATINE: "Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to be a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force."

ANAKIN: "I won't be a pawn in your political game. The Jedi are my family."

PALPATINE: "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to use the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death."

ANAKIN: "What did you say?"

PALPATINE: "Learn to use my knowledge, I beg you..."


A bit later...

ANAKIN: "I will quickly discover the truth of all of this."

PALPATINE: "You have great wisdom, Anakin. Know the power of the dark side. The power to save Padme."

As to trusting Palpatine, yes, he has lied to him about being a Sith Lord. But that is the only thing that he has lied to him about. He has been sincere about his friendship to him. He is offering him hope where the Jedi offer him nothing. Palpatine has, as far as he knows, bent over backwards to help him out whereas the Jedi haven't. He himself said that he believes that the Jedi won't teach him the ways of the Force, because those methods are only attainable through the dark side. Worse, the Jedi don't trust him while Palpatine has, even going so far as to put himself in a vulnerable situation just now. Even turning his back on an armed Jedi.

Anakin has nothing left to lose once Mace is dead. He has to believe that Palpatine is his friend and that he will try to help him. It is no more foolish for him to trust Palpatine, than it was for Luke to trust Obi-wan about destroying the Death Star without using a targeting computer.

 

Yeah, well, the problem is that Obi-Wan and Yoda are held as too good of characters.

Like, they're pretty much perfect on the screen.

That is the biggest foundational flaw of the prequels. It isn't even accurate. They're deceptive, non-forthcoming, a little devious even in the Original Trilogy.

A good screenwriter would have people leaving saying, "that Obi-Wan is a real bastard".

But a good screenwriter, we did not have in AOTC or ROTS.

 

I'm not quite sure how you consider reciting one part of the dialogue makes you 'correct'. Is it not also correct that Palpatine tells Anakin that there is a power, known to the Sith, that allows a person to "..keep the one's (they) love...from dying"? is it not also correct that Anakin pleads with Palpatine to "..help me save Padmé.."?

As to his trusting Palpatine being like Luke trusting Obi-wan...errmm, really?

'Luke, you'll have to kill everyone you've ever known and some kids as well...only then will you be strong enough in the Force to destroy the Death Star"

I don't remember that line from the original Star Wars

Also, Palpatine has lied to him about his beliefs and who he is. He was in cahoots with Dooku all along - you know..the guy that cut off Anakin's arm and tried to murder Padmé.

All those clones that he cares about, killed in a false flag war for Palpatine's own purpose. The man deals in lies and half-truths. You would have to be a numbskull to trust him. As for 'he had no choice after Mace' - I'm supposed to believe that he throws away his 'goodness' because he thinks 'woops..no way round this. The Jedi gonna be soooo mad with me'

The more I consider the scenes, the more ludicrous they become.

 

Yup.

A few fundamental factors should have been done...

1. Padme has an incurable disease that plagues her throughout at least one whole movie

2. Obi-Wan and Yoda are helpless and say "it is the will of the Force that she suffer"

3. For Chrissakes, make Obi-Wan discover that Palpatine is an evil Sith Lord. Jesus Christ all mighty how obvious was that?

4. And for Chrissakes, make Anakin defend Palpatine, on a mistaken yet legitimate belief.

 

I posted where it is said in the film, that Palpatine was talking about understanding the dark side as a means to saving Padme. Palpatine never once said that he was the student of Darth Plagueis. He just told him that a Sith Lord found out how to create life and cheat death. What he tells him is that together, they can figure out what had been lost long ago.

No, he just told him to blow a battle station that was filled with thousands of people, some of whom were evil and some who were just following orders.

And who is now dead. If Palpatine really cared for Dooku, he would have interfered. Also, it was Nute Gunray who wanted Padme dead. Not Palpatine.

Anakin cares more about Padme than the clones. So they don't matter now. Palpatine has lied to others, but aside from who he was, he has never lied to Anakin.

He cannot hide his betrayal from them. He was recorded being told to stay in the Temple and then he leaves a few minutes later, like his ass was on fire. The Jedi will never believe him that his attacking Mace and causing his death was an accident. They'll kill Palpatine and quite possibly will kill him for his betrayal. There is no way he can get out of this and the only way out is to go through. The minute the Jedi Council learns of his actions, they'll come for the two of them with both barrels. He has no choice now.

​

Why?​

​

Why? That goes against the whole "Revenge Of The Sith". Anakin doesn't hate the Jedi for being callous. He hates them for not trusting him and for not having the galaxy's best interest at heart.​

​

He did, originally. Lucas changed that because his friends told him to change a lot of the second act. Having him be revealed to Anakin makes more sense, while Obi-wan is busy fighting.​

​

He did that. He believed the Jedi were going to take over, which they talked about doing. He also believed that it was possible to save Padme, yet he was wrong as Qui-gon says that it cannot be done for someone else. ​

 

I thought I had made clear in my post that those inconsistencies can more or less be rationalized some way. That's exactly what you're doing here...

Forgive me, but to me and some others, all those defensive justifications are really convoluted. At least given what's indeed shown and expressed in the movies.

The fact is that there was no need to rationalize such things before the PT came out...

But Let's move on, as all this is a bit out of topic here.

Never even thought about this, I must confess...

He could also have died of cancer, or brain tumor, or whatever you want....Or, why not, because "he had lost the will to live", like Padme in ROTS !

Anyway, we all know that, according to Lucas' notes and early conceptions 1975-1983, Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi, along with Luke's father/Anakin Skywalker, was supposed to be much older in the OT than he is now supposed to be after the PT altered chronology.

The only thing that can, to some extent, lessen my interpratation and favor yours, is indeed Vader's answer ; "Don't underestimate the Force.". As it's rather ambiguous...Has the Force allowed Obi-Wan to fend-off danger, or to keep him alive and still a Jedi as an old man ? I personally favor the later because...There are those 2 other lines in ANH : Ben Kenobi : "I'm getting too old for this sort of things...", and Vader : "You powers are weak, old man...".

 

True- that was novelization-only:

"Do you remember the myth I told you of, The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?" the shadow whispered.
The myth-
...directly influence the midi-chlorians to create life; with such knowledge, to maintain life in someone already living would seem a small matter ...
"Yes," Anakin said. "Yes, I remember."
The shadow leaned so close that it seemed to fill the world.
"Anakin, it's no mere myth."
Anakin swallowed.
"Darth Plagueis was real."
Anakin could force out only a strangled whisper. "Real...?"
"Darth Plagueis was my Master. He taught me the key to his power," the shadow said, dryly matter-of-fact, "before I killed him."

 

Indeed, and an argument of omission is no argument at all.

No he didn't. he said to trust in the Force. I see you are attempting to change the subject. Are you arhuing that the rebellion shouldn't be attempting to destroy the Death Star (the name kind of gives away its purpose, as did Alderaan)?

Its not about whether he cared for Dooku. It is that he was on the same side; they were working to the same plan.

So..he doesn't really care about the clones at all does he? Rather than look at what Palpatine has done he relies on the faintest idea that Palpatine either knows a way to save Padmé or through the darkside they might find a way...because Palpatine said so. And...he's such a trustworthy man.

So, he wasn't good at all then. The only thought he had was his own safety. That's all he considered? Not so much a good man does bad things, more a bad man gets found out. Of course, if he stiffs Palpatine then...what happened to Mace becomes a moot point...

 

It is, however, implied, is it not? The rule of two and all that....

 

I think so yeah...Although Plagueis could have lived a long time ago. Oh my...

But Iron_lord and darth-sinister have a point here. For the general audience, oblivious to the novel, there's no way to assert that Palpy was Darth Plagueis' apprentice. Even if it's strongly suggested.

 

Its not about establishing the truth of Palpatine being Plagueis' apprentice, it is what Palpatine implies by his words and what Anakin takes them to mean.

As I said before I can just about excuse the idea that Anakin might go along with stopping Mace killing Palpatine on the understanding that he actually knows a power to save Padmé - which is what I believe Palpatine has lead Anakin to believe and what I understand Anakin believes. It is even dumber for him to make such decisions on simply the basis that he might, through the darkside, be able...somehow...to find a way to save her. To me the latter version just extends the duration of Anakin's stupidity.

 

Ok. Sorry, I hadn't tracked the whole discussion from the start with the others. Too tired...

I'm basically with you on that.

He eventually ends dumb to me anyway, as Darth Sidous doesn't actually have the power to save her, at least yet...Unlike what he claims moments before : " I have the power to save the one you love...You must choose". It clearly smells pure manipulation by Palpy.... That whole issue kind of weakens Anakin's turn in term of believability and motivations for some.

What is to conclude here is that, according to Lucas, Anakin is so desperate to save his wife from death (fatal flaw) that he's ready to buy anything. Even from a close friend and second mentor who finally turns out to be the evil Sith Lord, that contemplated the whole war, the wiping out of the Jedi and the fall of the Republic.

I personally don't find this palatable. I was basically disappointed by this "pact with the Devil" arc for Anakin Skywalker.

Anyway this is just movies.

 

Lol. The point being that one of the desired affects was to question "what is evil"? "what is a hero"? What is that? What does that look like? It was meant to further grey the concepts of jedi/sith, good/evil. As he's said in interviews, the empire was evil and Vader in the black suit and mask was the villainous symbol when he was really not as he was taken in 4-6. The PT didn't get the dark side completely right and still black-whited it a bit.
Addendum: Anakin is the unorthodox hero. Vader is the unorthodox villain.

 

I see what you're saying in that regard--that the Chosen One undermines the rebels' efforts. Yet, I would also like to point out, no matter if there was a Chosen One or not, the rebels' efforts are [to me] already undermined. What would happen if Luke failed and the rebels won Endor? If the Emporer is the "Great Evil" this "Great Power" [which he was not and we are helped to see that-if we didn't already-through the PT. He is an embodiment], if the savior dies, what's to say he doesn't survive such an encounter with the rebels? Luke went up to face Vader and was defeated. When Vader turned, the shields were down. (This is one of the problems I have with OT: the Luke going to face vader while the shields are getting blown part. It was not at all well-thought-out by the characters, as flawed by Lucas I know). But anyway, besides that, if the death star was penetrated, whose to say the emperor and Vader could not escape? And come back? That was the purpose of Luke going to confront them--Vader at least. If Palp lives, the sith live, the empire lives. It is horribly simple that way. The need for Luke to confront Vader undermines the rebels already.

The seduction was a slow process. I think he did well on the seduction (having to sum it up in 3 movies starting with him as a boy). A lot of Anakin's means justified the ends. And a lot of his choices leave the audience with "he did that!" while struggling with "but I understand." And he does become jumbled. His need to save Padme becomes convoluted with his need/lust for power and greatness and control. That's more subtle but it's there. Maybe it could have been stronger, yeah.

Palpatine appeared a good man, loved by not only Anakin but the galaxy, except for a few making the loyalist party which also made up the rebel alliance later (and the Jedi after a time). Yes, he lied. So there's anger. While he is a liar, he still obviously knows of powers that the Jedi don't. He'd been slowly planting things in Anakin's heads that revolved around his greatest fears: inadequacy, death of Padme, death of people he loved, not being strong enough or powerful enough. He told him of Plagueis and weakened his trust in the Jedi and was even still presenting it to Anakin as though he cared about him. Liar about identity doesn't mean he's lying about how he feels about you, right? It's like being friends with a terrorist who reveals themselves but keeps on about knowledge of a great weapon on your soil. It's perfectly rational to think "this guy might just know something." And, as Palp is still pretending the 'I'm evil but I like you' role, it's understandable that Anakin, though he no longer trusts him, thinks he can do something for him or will do something for him.

As I said before, "maybe this guy knows something." Evil or not, liar or not, he might have what Anakin wants. And remember, the need to save Padme HAS become jumbled with the need for control and the lust for power.

Now, I get it--after he kills Mace. I understand how that can be like "come on." Palpatine then says I don't know the power. But then again, let's relate. Your terrorist friend was all like, I know of some weapon on your soil by your family. You're thinking, he might just. And he knows how to deactivate it. So, the vice prez tries to kill him (hypothetical) and you kill the vice prez. suddenly, you're a terrorist as well. suddenly, you've just betrayed all--the country, personal beliefs, and your extended family (let's say the vp is one of your distant mentors). and the terrorist says, "I don't have the codes but I know we can piece them together because they are made up of the data in my brain and yours (aka-vader's power+emperor's). Basically, I can understand Anakin's delirium and floating between "what have I done" "I still need to save her" and his curiosity at what power he can gain. As he killed Windu, there's no real turning back. That doesn't mean he has to go with Palp but he has a higher chance of getting what he wants from Palp than the Jedi. The Jedi will give him a) no attachments to Padme b) a cell probably c) and a not let him be a jedi (maybe even strip him of the force). How it was onscreen was...okay I feel. The mistakes were 1) Anakin's absence of anger 2) Anakin saying nothing about what he wants. And, really, because they didn't drag out the Mace scene and let Anakin express his not trusting the Jedi come out fully which would help lead to his statements about ruling his empire later. Yeah, it wasn't great. Didn't ruin it for me. But I get how it could be better. As many things in SW could be better.

See, at this point, Vader is emerging--almost fully taken over. The dark side is not greatly explained by either trilogy but it is seen well enough in PT (and by things like KOTOR and whatnot).
But as to the statements:

1.We just saw Mace about to kill Palp and heard Mace say that Palp controlled the courts. By that denomination, I would think that saying the Jedi were going to be after the senate/senators is reasonable. And remember, he doesn't have just a need to save Padme but a lust for control and already mistrusts, resents, and has now killed a member of the Jedi. And he still pledges loyalty to the republic, especially run by the man who he needs to achieve this power to control death and save padme.
2. Sure, kill the jedi. Anakin isn't fond of them by now anyway and that is what the lord wants and what he apparently needs to solidify his position and feed the Vader that has grown within him and has bloomed
3. Sure, kill the jedi kids. No more Jedi to **** on what he thinks may be his new empire when he betrays Palp for betraying him and runs things "the right way" with his wife and child.
I don't find it stupid at all. Really. I'd like to see what people would do in that situation after practically killing Mace and throwing away everything out the window. Consider the terrorist scenario again and add to it the increasing lust of having control and power and seeing to it that things like terrorism don't happen in the place where you are dominant, etc, etc.