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SWC SWC Jedi Draft/Starfighter Draft Discussion Thread: Now Discussing the Bizarro Draft!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by heels1785 , Feb 12, 2014.

  1. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Hello, everyone. My name is heels and I commished the last installment of the Jedi Draft, and hopefully will do so for the next one.

    As a point of reference for those unfamiliar with the draft, its format, or concept, here are the drafts that have been held on TFN with champions and links listed. The great Darth-Horax started the first draft, some 11 years ago.

    1. "The first annual 2003 Jedi Draft" (Winner: GenMadine)
    2. 2003 Second Installment (Winner: GenMadine)
    3. 2003 Third Installment (Winner: Qui-Gon-Jinn2)
    4. 2004 First (Winner: Corran10584)
    5. 2004 Second (Winner: Gaeri)
    6. 2004 Third (Winner: Saber_Leader)
    7. 2004 Fourth (Winner: Ghost_Jedi)
    8. 2004 Fifth (Winner: Suzuki_Akira)
    9. 2004 Sixth (Winner: EMPEROR_WINDU)
    10. 2005 First (Winner: bburditt)
    11. 2005 Second (Winner: HandofSkywalker86)
    12. 2005 Third (Winner: Mr_Sith)
    13. 2005 Fourth (Winner: Talon_Kenobi)
    14. 2006 First (Winner: KenKenobi)
    15. 2006 Second [Return to SWC!] (Winner: Shadow_of_Durron)
    16. 2007 First (Winner: Shadow_of_Durron)
    17. 2007 Second (Winner: KiwiRogue)
    18. 2007 Third (Winner: KenKenobi)
    19. 2010: Return of the Jedi Draft (Winner: xblackout)
    20. 2011: A New Draft (Winner: DarkEagle)
    21. 2013: Return of the Revenge of the Draft (Winner: Mikaboshi)
    22. 2013 Only a Bith Deals in Absolutes (Winner: Point Given)

    Additionally, here is the list that we used in the last iteration of the draft:

    Aayla Secura
    Adalric Cessius Brandl
    Adi Gallia
    Agen Kolar
    Ahsoka Tano
    Ajunta Pall
    Alema Rar
    Alora
    Anakin Solo
    Anakin Skywalker
    Anoon Bondara
    Antares Draco
    Antinnis Tremayne
    An'ya Kuro (Dark Woman)
    Arca Jeth
    Aryn Leneer
    A’Sharad Hett
    Asaak Dan
    Asajj Ventress
    Atris
    Atton Rand
    Aurra Sing
    Azlyn Rae
    Bant Eerin
    Bao-Dur
    Barriss Offee
    Bastila Shan
    Ben Skywalker
    Boc Aseca
    Brakiss
    Brianna (Handmaiden)
    Bultar Swan
    Cade Skywalker
    Callista Ming
    Cay Qel-Droma
    Celeste Morne
    Cilghal
    Cin Drallig
    Coleman Trebor
    Corran Horn
    Cronal (Blackhole/Shadowspawn)
    Dace Diath
    Daeshara'cor
    Daiman
    Darovit
    Darrus Jeht
    Darth Andeddu
    Darth Angral
    Darth Azard
    Darth Bandon
    Darth Baras
    Darth Caedus
    Darth Chratis
    Darth Cognus
    Darth Desolous
    Darth Havok
    Darth Jadus
    Darth Karrid
    Darth Krayt
    Darth Kruhl
    Darth Maladi
    Darth Malak
    Darth Maleval
    Darth Malgus
    Darth Maul
    Darth Nihl
    Darth Nyriss
    Darth Phobos
    Darth Plagueis
    Darth Scabrous
    Darth Sidious
    Darth Sion
    Darth Stryfe
    Darth Talon
    Darth Traya
    Darth Vader
    Darth Vitiate
    Darth Wyyrlok (III)
    Darth Zannah
    Dasariah Kothos
    Dass Jennir
    Depa Billaba
    Desann
    Devan For'deschel
    Drake Lo'gaan
    Drok
    Duron Qel-Droma
    Echuu Shen-Jon
    Eeth Koth
    Eldon Ax
    Elke Vetter
    Empatojayos Brand
    Etain Tur-Mukan
    Even Piell
    Exal Kressh
    Exar Kun
    Exile
    Fable Astin
    Fay
    Feln
    Ferus Olin
    Finn Galfridian
    Fortris Gall
    Foul Moudama
    Freedon Nadd
    Fy-Tor-Ana
    Ganner Krieg
    Ganner Rhysode
    Gantoris
    Gavar Khai
    Gethzerion
    Githany
    Glaive
    Gnost Dural
    Gorc
    Haazen
    Halagad Ventor
    Hardin
    Hethrir
    Ikrit
    Jacen Solo
    Jaden Korr
    Jafer Torles
    Jaesa Wilsaam
    Jai Maruk
    Jaina Solo
    Jastus Farr
    Jax Pavan
    Jeng Droga
    Jerec
    Jocasta Nu
    Joclad Danva
    Johun Othone
    Jolee Bindo
    Jon Antilles
    Jorak Uln
    Jorus C'baoth
    Joruus C'baoth
    Juhani
    Kai Justiss
    Kam Solusar
    Kaox Krul
    Kar Vastor
    Kavar
    Kazdan Paratus
    Kenth Hamner
    Kento Marek
    Kerra Holt
    Ki-Adi-Mundi
    Kiel Charny
    Kira Carsen
    Kirana Ti
    Kirlocca
    Kit Fisto
    Klin-Fa Gi
    Knol Ven'nari
    Koffi Arana
    Kol Skywalker
    Komari Vosa
    Kyle Katarn
    K'Kruhk
    Lanius Qel-Bertuk
    Lar Le'Ung
    Leia Organa Solo
    Lomi Plo
    Lord Adraas
    Lord Hoth
    Lord Kaan
    Lord Kas'im
    Lord Kopecz
    Lord Nyax
    Lord Qordis
    Lord Scourge
    Lowbacca
    Lucien Draay
    Ludo Kressh
    Luke Skywalker
    Luminara Unduli
    Lumiya
    Mace Windu
    Malorum
    Mander Zuma
    Mara Jade Skywalker
    Marasiah Fel
    Maris Brood
    Marka Ragnos
    Maw
    Ma'kis'shaalas
    Mical
    Mira
    Mother Talzin (Nightsister)
    Naga Sadow
    Nahdar Vebb
    Nat Skywalker
    Nejaa Halcyon
    Nelani Dinn
    Nico Diath
    Nomi Sunrider
    Octa Ramis
    Odan-Urr
    Odion
    Olaris Rhea
    Oppo Rancisis
    Orgus Din
    Oss Wilum
    Pablo-Jill
    Pernicar
    Picaroon C. Boodle (Pic)
    Plo Koon
    Pong Krell
    Qrrrl Toq
    Querdan Dei
    Qui-Gon Jinn
    Quinlan Vos
    Qu Rahn
    Q'Anilia
    Raana Tey
    Rachi Sitra
    Rahm Kota
    Rasi Tuum
    Raskta Lsu
    Raynar Thul
    Relin Druur
    Revan
    Roan Fel
    Roan Shryne
    Roblio Darte
    Rojo Trace
    Ronhar Kim
    Roron Corobb
    Rosh Penin
    Saarai
    Saba Sebatyne
    Sa Cuis
    Saesee Tiin
    Saes Rrogon
    Sarasu Taalon
    Sariss
    Sarro Xaj
    Satele Shan
    Savage Opress
    Sayar Dun'La
    Sedriss QL
    Serra Keto
    Set Harth
    Sev'rance Tann
    Shaak Ti
    Shado Vao
    Sha Koon
    Shak'Weth
    Sharad Hett
    Shigar Konshi
    Shoaneb Culu
    Sia-Lan Wezz
    Sian Jeisel
    Sigel Dare
    Sirak
    Siri Tachi
    Sora Bulq
    Stass Allie
    Streen
    Sylvar
    Tahiri Veila
    Tamith Kai
    Tavion Axmis
    Te Corso
    Teneb Kel
    Tenel Ka
    Tesar Sebatyne
    Thann Mithric
    Tholme
    Thon
    Tohno
    Toki Tollivar
    Tol Skorr
    Tott Doneeta
    Treis Sinde
    Tresina Lobi
    Tr'a Saa
    Tsui Choi
    Tulak Hord
    Tyvokka
    Uthar Wynn
    Valenthyne Farfalla
    Valin Horn
    Ven Zallow
    Vergere
    Vestara Khai
    Vialco
    Vil Kothos
    Vima-Da-Boda
    Vima Sunrider
    Visas Marr
    Viun Gaalan
    Vodo Siosk-Bass
    Voolvif Monn
    Vrook Lamar
    Whie Malreaux
    Wolf Sazen
    Worror Dowmat
    X1
    X2
    Xalex
    Xamar
    Xanatos
    Xat Hracken
    Yaddle
    Yarael Poof
    Ylenic It'kla
    Yoda
    Yun
    Yuthura Ban
    Zannah
    Zayne Carrick
    Zekk
    Zett Jukassa
    Zez-Kai Ell
    Zonder
    Zule Xiss

    In our last draft, a few questions were raised regarding multiple characters in the Draft, and ways we'd like to approach them going forward. So, I'll start this thread off with a few areas to discuss, and we can move on to other topics as they are brought forward.

    1- How to handle Galen Marek - if included, what is treated as his "peak," what force powers are allowable, etc. Same will be true for all characters created for TFU "universe," including Rahm Kota.
    2- How to handle characters like Jaden Korr and Kyle Katarn, that regularly carry "non-light" weapons (sabers and whips). Do we allow one additional weapon for those characters, or all. With prep only, or naturally?
    3- Prep. What does it entail? Simple knowledge of your opponent, or access to all known armors and weapons that the particular character has used in canonical SW media/lit?
    4- The Ones and Abeloth - do we bring them in? They have been defeated by characters we currently list in the draft, but "peak" brings an area of interpretation that may make them difficult to judge.
    5- Character splits - keep Caedus and Jacen, Anakin and Vader, Hett and Krayt separate?

    This thread will hopefully allow us to foresee any issues and/or questions before we start our next draft up, which I'd like to do in the next few weeks or months, depending on the demand.

    Some tags for old friends (I'm only allowed 10):
    Mikaboshi
    DarkEagle
    The Loyal Imperial
    Yodaminch
    Trimaj
    Skywalker_T-65
    Jordan1Kenobi
    Point Given
    DarthIntegral
    LloydChristmas
     
  2. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
  3. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    5- Character splits seem fine as they are now.
    4- Keep the Ones out of the game, if Marek is too powerful then these guys have no business being here.
    3 & 2 - I would suggest that preps allow characters to utilize equipment beyond lightsabers or whips, but only stuff they would normally use (ie blasters for Luke or Katarn, but not things that a character wouldn't generally consider using in a book or comics). Armors should be allowed if a character would generally wear it regardless if prepared or not (ie Krayt wears armor as a Sith Lord, it is hard to judge him without it).
     
  4. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    i think make the split characters into choices, you can pick one or the other, but don't have both of them. it just causes too many headaches in my personal opinion.

    the ones/abeloth are a big, fat no to me. just no. abeloth alone took HOW many people to beat? not to mention we really have no clue what the peak of the ones is. anakin may have beaten them, but that was certainly not at peak by any stretch of the imagination.

    i'd say that the likes of kyle and jade should get their goodies with prep. i also think that prep should include what the character is known to have. so standard, you have your lightsaber/lightsaber/lightwhip/whatever your "standard" weapon is, but with prep you get anything that is known to be in the possession of the character.

    as for galen marek... again, just no. he's nothing but a video game character designed to be stupidly powerful. i've never liked him in these because who beats him? he basically beat the emperor and vader one right after the other, and then you have the whole other kettle of fish that we used to have with revan before the book. which is he, light or dark? i don't like him, and i don't think he really had a place in this because what he was capable of doing was just stupidly overpowered, and no one else in the SWs universe really has anything comparable to him in a lot of ways. i.e. he really just doesn't fit inside the universe, and was basically just a gimmick. also figuring out a baseline for how powerful he is? way too painful. this also makes rahm kota somewhat difficult as well... given that we can't really know how powerful he is, since we really don't have a baseline on marek very well. my personal opinion is that TFU and TFU2 are just expunged from the draft completely.
     
  5. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    5. I generally agree with Mika here. Splits didn't seem like a problem to me, and it allows fun things like Anakin vs. Vader.

    4. I...dislike the Ones, a lot. They exist basically as the nearest equivalent the Force gets to a physical form. Seems rather like asking a character to fight the Force itself (if one considers that their peak) to me, so I don't think they should be included. As Trim pointed out on Abeloth, 'she' is also far too powerful.

    3/2. I think prep should give them any extra weapons they may happen to use. Luke could bring a Shoto to a match with Lumiya, Kyle/Jaden could bring loads and loads of weaponry, so on and so forth. On the subject of those two actually...I think, if they have one specific thing they normally have outside the standard 'one lightsaber' they should have that too. Kyle would have his pistol, while Jaden is said to have his first lightsaber on him (after it was recovered) at all times, even if he only typically uses his second one. Granted I may be biased there :p

    1. I'll need to think some on Galen.
     
  6. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral SFTC June Tiemaster star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    For weaponry, I propose the following solution:

    The use of prep time can be used to EITHER study the opponent or amass regularly used weapons other than the standard lightsaber/whip.

    And, I'm good with combining all split characters into a choose either/or, except AnaVader. You need to have both of them available.
     
  7. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    I don't see why a person can't both study an opponent and gather weapons they would normally use, doesn't seem to be an either or situation.
     
  8. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    me either. it's not like studying a file they'd get on someone (or really looking them up) would take a huge amount of time. and if it's weapons they normally have on them... why would they have to gather them exactly?
     
  9. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral SFTC June Tiemaster star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    I just like it as an option for additional strategy and variety.
     
  10. DarkEagle

    DarkEagle SWC Muggles Draft Commissioner star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2009
    1- I'm ok with Marek being in, we have the TFU novelization for more "concrete" depictions of his feats (so it's not all in that nebulous "game mechanics" category). Yes, he is pretty strong, but is adding him any worse than Vitiate or Plagueis?
    2- I think they should get some additional weapons, though not hyperspace arsenal amounts. For Kyle, say blaster or two, few grenades, maybe mines?
    4- No

    List edits: "Exile" to "Meetra Surik", remove "Ze" (it's a copy/paste error from Zez-kai ell), remove "Zannah" (Darth Zannah already exists).

    Here's a list of the people picked in the 10th round and picked and/or dropped in FA just for a reference of where we were power-wise
    10th
    Zayne Carrick

    Cin Drallig

    Darrus Jeht

    Kira Carsen

    Tsui Choi

    Eeth Koth

    Gavar Khai

    Lord Kaan

    Olaris Rhea

    Serra Kato

    Jax Pavan

    Zekk



    FA

    Freedon Naad

    Darth Jadus

    Darth Andeddu

    Adi Gallia

    Yarael Poof

    Oppo Rancisis

    Kerra Holt

    Odion



    Dropped FA

    Viun Gaalan

    Sarasu Taalon

    Olaris Rhea

    Kerra Holt

    Darth Talon

    Eeth Koth

    Kira Carsen

    Darth Jadus
     
  11. Darth_Furio

    Darth_Furio Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Hey guys. I'd love to join the draft next time around. I've been trolling this thread for years. Would you guys mind if I gave my opinion on your topics?
     
    Mikaboshi likes this.
  12. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Anyone who has an opinion is welcome to give it I believe. Besides, the more opinions we have the better I would think.
     
    Trimaj likes this.
  13. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003

    Certainly - the goal of this thread is not only to refine our existing draft, but introduce new ideas to improve and move it forward.
     
    Skywalker_T-65 likes this.
  14. Darth_Furio

    Darth_Furio Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Thanks guys.

    1. In terms of Galen Marek, if there is a movement to get him into the game, you could vote to a set of realistic base of powers that reflect what he was at the time of the TFU. He was Vader's apprentice and may have been close to his Master in terms of Force ability and lightsabre skills. (Although I don't agree with that myself, he shouldn't have been close to Vader let alone Darth Sidious) I'd compare him to Darth Maul perhaps?

    2. Kyle should have his blaster included at all times as he carried it everywhere IMO. Give it to Jaden prepped. I don't think they should get many weapons though because realistically you can carry all that gear like multiple blaster rifles.

    4. Since I am not a fan of TCW, so my opinion is biased, I wouldn't include them.

    5. Split them, Darth Caedus wasn't the same person as Jacen Solo and Anakin vs. Vader would be a great match up!
     
  15. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    so i have a slightly off the wall suggestion. it's somewhat similar to what we did in the comics draft this past time. why don't we depower the list slightly? i'm mainly thinking of the people that you basically can't argue anyone over, sidious and luke. they're auto wins no matter what they come up against. galen marek falls into this as well, between those three who beats them exactly? list people you can think of that you MIGHT have an off chance of arguing over them, and realize that probably no one would vote against them. it's kind of silly having people that can single handedly not only win any match they're going to come up against (and force help us if we have to deal with luke vs sids... if we're including dark empire sids i'd have to go with that pretty easily sadly) but are also singlehandedly team wreckers of the highest order. they basically break things, unless you have a perfect team to go up against them. or you have an absolute craptastic team around them, neither of which happens very frequently. and if you have what mika put together this past draft, well no one's beating that. as soon as i saw his top four way back in the drafting phase i knew he'd one the whole thing, and that it was basically pointless to go through with the enter draft. they're fun characters... that just suck all the fun out of this to me. if you don't get one of those top two picks, you're stuck with the second cut. and everyone of those characters that you take after them you can argue one over the other.

    i almost think vitiate should be included in this duo/trio because he seems like sids light after last draft, where about the only legit person you could put over him is luke or sids (or galen if he's in it). people like that just make this boring and unfun, and if you manage to get two of them on your team well... tis just kind of over.

    i also wouldn't be opposed to completely excising the first round, just to make things more interesting. and anyone that's of the appropriate power levels to be considered first round material. but that might be a little extreme since this doesn't have the vast amounts of viable characters that the comic draft does. and there are some pretty awesome characters we'd have to get rid of to do that as well. but i am completely for getting rid of those three/four i mentioned above.

    anyway, thoughts on this everyone?
     
  16. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Part of me is inclined to agree with Trim. We saw that a very well constructed team (Orange Box) was able to beat a Luke-lead team (Whitey's) this time, but that was only because Whitey's team was...a bit lackluster aside from Luke. And Skywalker still required both Revan and the Exile to take him down.

    Sids is arguably even worse, since a team battle gives him prep which means you aren't taking him down unless you have Luke. You can look at my team in that regard...way back in the first round I might have had a chance against Mika's team, outside of Sids/Sithperor. Those two alone would have wrecked my team though, and there is something depressing about putting together a good (or decent) team just for one (or two) enemies to be team-wreckers that destroy it.

    Just my opinion though.
     
    Trimaj likes this.
  17. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    I really got lucky with some underrated picks and a sweet trade. Not sure if anyone would get Vitriate and Sids on the same team again, though it could happen. If anything, just remove first round picks. I don't like the idea of it though, but wouldn't be hurt if it happened regardless.
     
  18. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    the thing of it is, most of the first rounders are fairly even. depending on the judge, any of them can really beat any of them. sids, vitiate, and luke... beat everyone at this point. they're really the only problems in my eyes. i mean, it's kinda like the first round of the SFD. you have your top flight five, then everyone else. but that top five, anyone can beat anyone. which really, it's a good thing in a lot of ways. it influences how you take your team a ton, which a first round pick is supposed to do. it's your anchor, and ends up being the fights we enjoy discussing the most. i don't want to lose that.
     
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  19. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    ^That. As much as I like Luke, it might not be a bad idea to take just him, Sids, and maybe Vitiate out, if only to balance things somewhat on the top-end. Obi-Wan, Anakin, Vader, Revan...any of them could be, convincingly, argued over each other. By the same token, none of them can touch Luke, Sids or (maybe) Vitiate. That's what I think Trim is getting at.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, who's the next best after Luke/Sids? Yoda? Mace? And we already know neither of them will win a fight there, since Yoda lost to Sids, and Mace can be argued up and down, and that's discounting later stuff Sids got up to, like Dark Empire.
     
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  20. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    I'm in favor of taking 2 off of each side- Luke and Yoda, Sidious and Vitiate.

    Mace, Anakin, and Obi-Wan would be top LS. Vader, Bane, and Caedus would be top DS. All beatable characters.
     
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  21. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    sounds good to me.
     
  22. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    That does sound like it would work.

    It will feel odd seeing the first pick not be Luke or Sids though :p
     
  23. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    somehow, i don't think that's a bad thing.
     
  24. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Oh I'm not saying it is, just that it would look odd. I actually like the strategy this brings in to play (do you pick Obi-Wan who can outlast most fighters thanks to his Soresu mastery, or do you pick Bane who can batter them apart with pure power?), as opposed to just picking Luke first and everyone else second.
     
  25. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Just want to say, as a past Champion & Judge, glad to see the draft still going.

    And I dont know how much weight my vote has, but I would be against splitting characters, as it makes for more challenging team building.
     
    heels1785 likes this.