I think the movie makes it clear that Palpatine is faking being beaten by Mace, holding out for Anakin's arrival. He would have sensed what Anakin was doing, knew that he had to give Anakin the proper incentive to step in.

 

I was surprised how relatively easily Mace beat the emperor. It didn't look like Palpatine was fakeing it either. (Maybe I failed to notice it..I missed a lot of things apparently..) Maybe I interpreted that scene wrong but Palps didn't even know lil' Ani was coming. I was allso surprised to see a tie between Yoda and emperor. I guess Lucas didn't have the gutts to show that little green frog get beaten thoroughly. Lucas loves Yoda too much to really let him loose entirely. That's how it looked to me. That was one of the scenes I was looking forward: Seeing that annoying little green git beaten. After AOTC I have hated Yoda allmost as much as I hate Anakin..."Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has..How embarassing"...Arrrghh...Yoda to me represensents a being that maybe once was enlightened but then realised it and started admiring himself...Ok I am rambling...Pay no attention...Carry on

 

"When I watched ROTS the first time, there was a 7ish-year-old boy very unengaged with the movie. He played in the aisle for most of the movie. (And no, he wasn't playing Star Wars.) I didn't notice other children in the theatre.

When I watched ROTS this morning (my second time), the theatre wasn't even half full. (I thought ROTS would have bad word-of-mouth, but this is ridiculous.) The only children I noticed were 3 or 4 five to nine year olds. They must have gotten up and left the theatre 4 times during the movie.

Speaking only for myself, when I was in the theatre watching SW at age 7 and ESB at age 10, there was no way on earth you could have gotten me to leave my seat or stop staring at that screen."

Um, are you just making this stuff up? Because I've seen the film five times now...and it was a packed house every time...filled to the brim with people of all ages...and they were all into the movie. You could hear a pin drop a good percentage of the time (mainly during the emotional, shocking and tragic bits)...and they've laughed and ooohed and ahhed during the proper moments. I think it's safe to say that most everyone I've seen it with has been completely mesmerized by this film.

That, and $85 million in the first two days would also disagree with your assessment. "Bad word-of-mouth," indeed.


ANYWAYS, it's good to see that some of you who disliked the first two prequels gave this one a fair chance, and came away enjoying it. Good stuff.

 

MajorNerd, eyah we can agree to disagree I guess. Just look right now. The debate is starting here with us and We have Tachiko and Jabba.

I'll go see it again and see if I come away thinking about it differently.

 

You missed the point of that scene. That was a bluff to play on Anakin's loyalty

sorry, I'm not with you. what do you mean ? Anakin's loyalty to who?

He pulled a lightsaber on him in all of a second and held it at his throat. Then, Palpatine works his little magic.

What I mean is that this is the moment when 12 years of believing this is a good guy are suddenly trashed for anakin, it should've been a huge moment. It was just so ordinary .

The culmination is a state of confusion. A state we see very clearly in their bedroom. He is teetering on the brink of breakdown, and mind you, Anakin is an explosive impulsive personality anyway. He is a volcano.

All what you describe could explain his decision to disarm Mace, but beyond that ...

If you don't buy into a Faustian tragedy, the movie just won't work

But I don't think it is a Faustian tragedy .
In Faust the doctor gets something, the devil promises and the devil delivers .
Palpy doesn't and can't promise anakin what he wants . Let alone deliver .

So, no, I definitely don't see it as a faustian tragedy .

g

 

in the grand sceme of things it doesn't matter anyways...it's like the endless threads in the 3SA; "who is the most powerful jedi?"..."who would win in a fight, spiderman or darth maul?" etc...debating who is the most powerful fictional character was a lot more fun when i was 10 years old.

 

I tried watching the last hour of Clones today. It's crappier now than ever.


Shane - I did see his eyes darting back and forth, but it looked more like he was desperately looking for Anakin to intervene VERSUS faking it to test him. They really lit up when Anakin told Mace he can't do that. But the way Palps got his lightsaber knocked away, and he was smoking, burning and yelping, he looked like he got his butt whooped to me.

And then Yoda comes back, and Yoda almost whips him. He even tries to run.

I like my interpretation - but I'll give it a doublecheck on my next viewing.


Speaking of noticing things, anybody else see the Falcon?

Or notice that in the Duel, Anakin tries the exact same move on Obi-Wan that he used to chop Dooku's hand off - and Obi outmanoevred him?


---

Leonard, the 1 o'clock show yesterday was half full in my theatre. The opening day, sold out on 10 screens all day, but Friday was really slow and a little empty.

---
Gez, It's the SW version of that tale. Close enough. I'm not even sure if Palps has the power or not. He may actually have it and lie to Anakin about not knowing, just to drive him to be more powerful. And besides, I thought most "sell soul to Devil" stories the hero ends up losing everything?

 

When I saw it there was a lot of laughter when Palpy is doing what I call his Gollum routine - "no, no, please please" etc. when mace is trashing him.


Something I noticed the 2nd time - padme looks pregnant during the funeral .

The biggest reaction I noticed in the 2 viewings was when yoda took out the red guards, that gets a huge laugh .


g

 

I think I'm going to have to be the one who's on the fence with this one. I think that Mace clearly defeats him in the beginning, when he knocks the saber out of Palpy's hand. He also has the upper hand when it came to the Sith Lightning--as he was redirecting it back into Palpy's face.

HOWEVER, I have seen what Shane is talking about. After Palpy stops shooting his lightning and is repeating that he's "too weak," you see him looking back and forth at both Anakin and Mace. It's very much subtle, and you'll miss it if you aren't looking.

You can also see him smirk after Anakin slices Mace's hand, and he begins to zap him again.

So my verdict on this goes as follows:

He was defeated in the saber duel, but was faking defeat during the Sith Lightning contest to gauge Anakin's response and loyalty.


EDIT: "Or notice that in the Duel, Anakin tries the exact same move on Obi-Wan that he used to chop Dooku's hand off - and Obi outmanoevred him?"

Wow, you're right. Never thought of that. I think that's derived from the two of them being student/teacher--and such close friends--that they know each other's moves and are matching them, move for move. Obi knows this is a move Anakin does, and probably even taught it to him, so he knows how to break free of it. Awesome stuff, man.

"Leonard, the 1 o'clock show yesterday was half full in my theatre. The opening day, sold out on 10 screens all day, but Friday was really slow and a little empty."

Really? That's odd. Must be more Star Wars fans in Waterloo, Iowa.

 

I didn't notice the move till a later viewing, but right as they leave the Mustafar landing platform and head down the hall into the conference, he tries it - very cool.

One of the many subtle ways that ROTS builds on itself and maintains internal consistency.


---

I'm sure it is sold out all weekend here, but most of the geeks took off Thursday and filled theatres (me included). And there are so many showings, that I can believe - and was happy not to wait in line - the 1 oclock yesterday was only half full.

 

I'm not even sure if Palps has the power or not. He may actually have it and lie to Anakin about not knowing, just to drive him to be more powerful.

sorry -- what ?


And besides, I thought most "sell soul to Devil" stories the hero ends up losing everything?

Yeah. In the long term they lose it all . But the point is that in the short term they get what they most desire and the devil delivers, the devil doesn't say "we'll look for it together" , that would be rather silly .

It's not Faustian .


Obi knows this is a move Anakin does, and probably even taught it to him, so he knows how to break free of it. Awesome stuff, man.

Obi also seems to be the first person to realise that if your opponent jumps over your head you can chop his legs off .
And doesn't anakin do that while they're on their lava-surf-boards ?

g

 

I wasn't talking to you.


EDIT: **** it, I'll bite.

"Obi also seems to be the first person to realise that if your opponent jumps over your head you can chop his legs off .
And doesn't anakin do that while they're on their lava-surf-boards ?"

Make more sense, please. I'm having trouble deciphering this jargon. Thanks.

 

I've seen the film five times now...and it was a packed house every time...filled to the brim with people of all ages...and they were all into the movie. You could hear a pin drop a good percentage of the time (mainly during the emotional, shocking and tragic bits)...and they've laughed and ooohed and ahhed during the proper moments. I think it's safe to say that most everyone I've seen it with has been completely mesmerized by this film.

That, and $85 million in the first two days would also disagree with your assessment. "Bad word-of-mouth," indeed.

Um, are you making this stuff up? Because I've seen the photoplay (it's NOT a film) twice now...and it was about 90-95% full the first time and somewhat less than half full the second time. Both times there were children wandering in the aisle, unengaged with the movie.

I don't think that the bad word-of-mouth will really hit hard until after this weekend. I suspect each week ROTS will make only half as much as the week before, toping out at no more than $250 million.

 

I'm not trying to get you to like this scene, but I honestly think it was done the way it was because it was meant to lay the ground work for Anakin's redemption. I could go further with this, but I'll choose not to.

Even if you're right, it still doesn't explain the bad use of Palpatine with a lightsaber or his rapid aging. I liked how we saw Mace Windu betray the code right in front of Anakin (which gave him the extra edge he needed to turn), I liked how he chopped off Mace's arm thus allowing Palpatine to kill the Jedi master, and I liked Anakin's initial reaction to all this. Other than that, just going on my experience with one viewing, I did not like this scene that much. As many have said, he turns too quickly in that moment. Palpatine only offers him Padme's live... possible, not even guarenting that. I wish he would have played on his loyalities to the Republic and to his love of "quick, decisive action" as well as using Padme as a motivator.


Darth-Stryphe, I was just about to PM you and ask where I could find your opinions of ROTS and boom!
there it was.

Hi John! Sorry you weren't out there with us at First Colony. It was a blast! And thanks for reminding me, I need to repost my thoughts over in HFF.


I'm happy that you enjoyed the movie as a whole despite what you regard as it's negatives.

Yeah, me, too. Like you, I really want to digest a second viewing before given it my official ceal of approval or not, but I wanted to go ahead and post some initial thoughts. The above having been said, you must realize I have this many problems with ROTJ, which is my third favorite movie of all times. The question is, will ROTS do what ROTJ did.. that is, have the good outweigh the bad? The "rewatchabltity" factor is key in making this decision.


No matter what, Sith will be huge.

It already is.


When I watched ROTS this morning (my second time), the theatre wasn't even half full. (I thought ROTS would have bad word-of-mouth, but this is ridiculous.) The only children I noticed were 3 or 4 five to nine year olds. They must have gotten up and left the theatre 4 times during the movie.

You didn't honestly expect the morning showing to be full, did you... for any movie?


You know, on a more personal note. The scene where Yoda and Chewbacca say goodbye really struck me as unaldulterated nod-to-the-audience unnecessary crap the first time out. Viewing two. I teared. Viewing three. I teared more. And viewing four, I'm really sad to see the end of STAR WARS. That was Lucas's goodbye. It's been fun. We're here. Time to say goodbye.

I'll be interested to see if I feel the same.

Hmmm... really want to see this again, but really don't want to make the mistake of seeing it too many times (I can't do that with any movie, not over short periods). Must pace myself. I'll see it again next weekend.


I am defending a prequel. Sometimes I amaze even myself.

*sniff* And it was a beautiful thing to see Ree Yees.. after all these years.

 

Stryphe, I went to the 9:00 am show on Thursday and it was 90-95% full.

I then went the very next day at 9:00 am and it wasn't even 50% full.

I expected the second day to be as full as the first. <<shrugs>>

 

I don't think that the bad word-of-mouth will really hit hard until after this weekend. I suspect each week ROTS will make only half as much as the week before, toping out at no more than $250 million.

Binary, I just don't see the bad word-of-mouth happening, at least not to this extent. Despite all the suited Vader marketing, I've not heard one complaint - not one - about the lack of Vader in Ep. 3 in talking to people or overhearing people after a screening.

Have you actually heard bad word-of-mouth? Not kids in the aisles - I mean, righteous anger over the lack of Vader from people as they've emerged from a screening?

I think, in the end, this won't touch TPM (which was a theatrical event on a phenomenal scale, box-office-wise), but will handily beat AOTC.

 

You guys just reminded me.

The two things that made my ROTS viewing experience less than optimal was, one, this little Youngling sitting right behind me who talked throughout the WHOLE damn movie, and teo, some idiot who was shining a laser pointer on screen!!

I mean, the kid wouldn't shut up at all. But I don't blame him because he doesn't know better. I blame his Dad who was sitting right next to him who didn't tell him to be quiet while the film was showing. That guy has absolutely no manners and is clearly a total moron. I would have turned around and told him to shut his kid up but I didn't want to miss anything on screen and I also didn't want to scare the kid. Anyway, I hope my next viewing won't be disrupted by the actions of these types of unruly children.

 

Binary, I just don't see the bad word-of-mouth happening, at least not to this extent. Despite all the suited Vader marketing, I've not heard one complaint - not one - about the lack of Vader in Ep. 3 in talking to people or overhearing people after a screening.

Have you actually heard bad word-of-mouth? Not kids in the aisles - I mean, righteous anger over the lack of Vader from people as they've emerged from a screening?

I haven't heard any bad word-of-mouth, or any word-of-mouth of any sort. I don't actually know anyone who has seen ROTS (except for a co-worker whom I won't get to talk to about his reactions until Tuesday).

 

Binary
Both times there were children wandering in the aisle, unengaged with the movie.

Maybe they forgot to take their ridillin(sp?)?

I think you and TJ encountered children with acute ADD.

 

I expected the second day to be as full as the first. <<shrugs>>


You have to remember that a lot of people that go to the very first showing in the morning on opening day are the same people who go to see the movie at midnight... What you said is exactly how it was at my theatre on Thursday, every showing was sold out including 10 am and 10:30 am


But the next day at the early shows you do not have the "midnighters" going for it. That's why it is empty



On another note, I talked to two people today who are about 22 or 23 years old. Not SW fans of any kind (The guy did not know Ewan McGregor's "space name"). But both of them thought the movie was sad and emotionally moving. Both agreed it was better than Return of the King, and I remember them loving that movie.


Good word of mouth is going to give this film great legs and summer box office dominance...easily

 

I watched ROTS recently and because of what I thought to be a slightly positiv initial impression I put in my TESB DVD of dubious origin for comparison. And then I realized that although ROTS really tried hard to please it is and never will be for me in the same universe as the first two movies of Star Wars. It difference in emotional attachment, in narrative flow, in character development and sheer absence of lameness is so tremendous that I cannot see the whole PT as part of some alternate freak Star Wars universe.

I also realized that if I ever start connecting the characters from the PT with the OT it would probably almost destroy my viewing enjoyment. Their motivations and actions in the PT diminish their grandeur. How can I fear and respect Darth Vader knowing he was a whiny lobotomized teenager who fell for the dark side because it was convinient to save his girlfriend ? Or listen in awe to Yodas teaching while my mind conjurs images of leaping frogs ? Should I accept that Obi-Wan is lying every time he opens his mouth ? For god's sake, most of them don't even look alike.

The magic is dead.

 

Here's 10 questions I have for anyone who enjoyed ROTS -

#1 - How does the Emperor know Padme's dead at the end of the film?
#2 - How does Obi Wan know Vader is alive?
#3 - Why does Darth Vader wear the mask? He was breathing fine as he
smoldered by the lava, as he waitied for Sidious, and before the mask on the table.
#4 - Why did Sidious' lighting "age" him, when it didn't do the same to Luke in ROTJ?
#5 - Why did Mace's lightsaber reflect the lighting back at Sidious, but Obi Wan's
didn't do the same when Dooku shot lighting at him?
#6 - After ROTS, why would Yoda fear Palpatine? And would Obi Wan fear Vader?
#7 - Why does Anakin leave Palpatine alone after he finds out he's the Sith Lord?
#8 - Why wasn't R2's memory erased too? Wouldn't he fill 3PO in afterwards?
#9 - Where did Yoda's "good relations" with the Wookies come from?
#10 - Why did Anakin have yellow eyes for ONE shot in the movie?

Please educate me. Because as it stands now...

Revenge Of The Sith SUCKED!!!!!

VFD

 

Why did the Jedi wait three more years in their Sith "investigation?" They call Palpatine the Sith lord they've been "looking for," but they came to the conclusion that Dooku was a Sith in AOTC and he told Obi-wan a Sith was controlling the Senate. And why does Mace, only then, "sense" a plot to "destroy the Jedi?" It's been apparent that a Sith was out there for the past thirteen years; not only that, but the Jedi seemed surprised they were betrayed by the army of clones created from a known Sith's henchman. You'd figure at THAT point, they'd "sense" something was fishy.

I could go on.

 

I wasn't talking to you.

This is a public message board

Make more sense, please. I'm having trouble deciphering this jargon. Thanks

what jargon ?
In the duel when they're doing that lava-surfing anakin somersaults over Obi's head .




#1 - How does the Emperor know Padme's dead at the end of the film?

I suppose there's an official announcement.

#2 - How does Obi Wan know Vader is alive?

Does he ?


#3 - Why does Darth Vader wear the mask? He was breathing fine as he
smoldered by the lava, as he waitied for Sidious, and before the mask on the table

Yeah, he could've been wheezing a bit more.

#4 - Why did Sidious' lighting "age" him, when it didn't do the same to Luke in ROTJ?

IMO the lightning actually reveals Sids true face, rather than deforming him .

#5 - Why did Mace's lightsaber reflect the lighting back at Sidious, but Obi Wan's
didn't do the same when Dooku shot lighting at him?

Too far away maybe.

#6 - Where does Owen's dislike of Obi Wan in ANH come from?

And why does he think Anakin followed him on some damn fool idealistic crusade?

#7 - Why does Anakin leave Palpatine alone after he finds out he's the Sith Lord?

Good question.

#8 - Why wasn't R2's memory erased too? Wouldn't he fill 3PO in after wards?

I suppose it doesn't occur to humans that R2 units 'see' human behaviour . I don't mind this so much after all 3PO never really listens to R2 and always thinks he's wrong about stuff etc.

#9 - Where did Yoda's "good relations" with the Wookies come from?

the deleted scenes I imagine.

#10 - Why did Anakin have yellow eyes for ONE shot in the movie?

they needed it for the trailer.



g

 

#1 - I'm guessing that a state funeral might need a little preperation, so it's possisble it might have been announced in advance
#2 - Even in the desert, 20 years is plenty of time to pick up rumours of a lightsabre using guy called Vader who's the Emperor's enforcer and right-hand man
#3 - He also seems to be able to breathe without the mask at the end of IV - maybe it's more a long-term health thing.
#4 - Maybe it only does that when it's reflect back at the user.
#5 - Mace is maybe more skilled than Obi-Wan, hence his position on the Council.
#6 - Somewhere between III and IV - calling him a "crazy old wizard" sounds more like he's talking about the older Obi-Wan than the one in RotS - which implies that he's seen, and quite possibly talked to Obi-Wan after receiving the baby - which would only be natural - Obi-Wan promised to watch over the child, so I doubt he'd just wait 20 years before checking up on how he was doing
#7 - Anakin knows what drives a Sith - power.
If Sidious flees, then the Sith's grip on the Senate and the Republic is at an end - he can only challenge the jedi when he has the power of the Republic behind him - without it, he's reduced to what the Sith have been for the past thousand years - a Dark Lord hidng in the shadows, utterly unable to strike againt the Jedi.
If he stays, he's brought to justice, and the Jedi have won a complete victory. If he flees, then the threat is all but gone anyway.
(Plus, of course, Anakin may not be thinking all that clearly in the current situation
#8 - He didn't fill 3PO in on his "mission" in Episode Iv, so maybe he feels Goldenrod can't be trusted with secrets.
#9 - The same place as Han's friendship with Lando - the mysterious Plotdivice System, beyond the Outer Rim
#10 - His eyes are yellow too after he's been dismembered by Obi-Wan.