SWC Productions Present: The Official SW Community ROTS Spoiler Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Stryphe, Feb 8, 2005.

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  1. I_AM_IRON_MAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 2
    "So basically as their fighting and trying to survive being engulfed by flames they should chat it up like schoolgirls "

    Yes. One thing I missed in the duel was taunting banter from Vader. I don't know if you have seen episodes Iv-VI yet, but the duels in those movies have a lot of dialogue, and hence, character development in them, rather than just over choreographed fighting.

    By the way, I looked at some pictures I have, and Tatoinne does have clouds, so I retract that remark.

    Also, does anyone have any idea how the Emperor was supposed to mask his presence from the Jedi. Or are we just going to have to go with the dark side clouds everything.

    This thread rocked.

    BTW, AOTC is on Fox now, and if that would have been as good as ROTS, then ROTS would have been a lot better, if you catch my meaning. What a blown opportunity.

  2. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    yeah gezvader and Darth Sheba, I'm not sure how Sidious knew either. Also, when Palpatine was sending out a search party for Yoda after their little brawl, how come Palpatine couldn't sense that Yoda was nearby? He sounded as if he didn't know if Yoda was gone or not. Talk about weak powers.

    The video recording seemed like a nice effects gimmick Lucas would love to put in.
  3. namnlos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2005
    star 3
    The video recording is of Sidious at the Temple, after the attack - it is not Anakin pledging himself to the Drak SIde - he's just reporting on what he's done.
  4. Darth_Sheba Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 1
    Even if he was reporting to Palpy, we'd see only Palpy and not both of them, wouldn't we?
  5. Tachikoma-Kun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 3
    "Words cut deeper than swords...:" - That sounds like a joke now. Was there some dialogue that ended up being cut? I think the ROTS duel might easily be the most boring duel in the saga. It doesn't look very good and it doesn't have much emotion either. Well except for the ending ofcourse when Darth Ani says that he hates Obi. :p
  6. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4

    One of the odd things about the story is how easily Palpatine sells the idea to the senate/public
    that the jedi are traitors I mean just a couple of days ago they rescued him from Dooku . In the novel the jedi , especially Obi and Anakin, are revered throughout the galaxy by Holonet news as great heroes .

    I really think that we needed to see Palpy do more to ruin their reputation for this to be believable .

    g

  7. I_AM_IRON_MAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 2
    Yeah, he said the Jedi injured him. With what, a chemical burn? I mean, his injuries seemed pretty unusual.

    However, maybe by this point the senate was in love with him for seeing them threw the war, or no one was willing to stand up to him at that point.
  8. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    OK, this brings up an excellent point that now confuses me:

    In AOTC, Dooku tells Obi-Wan that the Trade Federation was tricked by Sidious, so how is it that Sidious is once more a friend of the Trade Federation in ROTS?

    WTH?!!

    Anyone?
  9. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    WOW I NEVER THOUGHT THAT KIND OF CRACK POT REMARK WOULD COME FROM A STAR WARS FAN. I GUESS WHEN BASHERS HAVE TO BASH THEY TRY AND FIND ANYTHING IN THERE SAD, PATHETIC AND DESPERATE ATTEMPTS AT ATTENTION.

    How any fan can just bash another fan with such disregards is beyond me, especially here at this special time in our history. Is this how SW fans will be remembered? People who insulted each other at the drop of a hat?

    Well, back to banland with you, PT_Fan. It's obvious you learned nothing from your last banning just two days ago.
  10. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "In AOTC, Dooku tells Obi-Wan that the Trade Federation was tricked by Sidious, so how is it that Sidious is once more a friend of the Trade Federation in ROTS?"


    Well, Dooku wasn't exactly being honest with Obi Wan there, was he?

    Actually, that entire scene in AOTC has always bothered me. There really doesn't seem to be any reason whatsoever for Dooku to try to sucker Obi Wan into joining him in the first place.
  11. a2dmusic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2001
    star 3
    Actually, that entire scene in AOTC has always bothered me. There really doesn't seem to be any reason whatsoever for Dooku to try to sucker Obi Wan into joining him in the first place.

    Another of several reasons to ignore TPM and AOTC altogether.
  12. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    So - does anyone know how Palpy knows about Anakin 'killing' padme ?

    Perhaps he didn't really know. I believe he's just playing with Anakin's emotions here. By telling him that he killed Padme, it fueled his anger more and made him fall deeper to the Dark Side.
  13. darthgetalife Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2002
    star 3
    About Palpatine knowing Padmé's fate:
    1st - he was from the same planet of hers ( Naboo), if you consider the size of the parade in her funeral it's clear that her death was known by all officials of Naboo.
    2nd - There's also a thing to rant about. Something surprising, at least to me.
    After the fight/duel with Yoda, Palpatine asks Mas Amaeda to prepare his shuttle, because he sensed that Vader was in danger.
    Note that hapenned way before the end of Anakin/ObiWan duel.
    When Palpatine leaves Coruscant, Vader and Obiwan weren't even ?lava surfing? yet.
    So the fact is that Sidious foresaw the fate of Vader.
    So eventually we have to accept that Sidious was monitorating what was happening in Mustafar trough the Force all the way.
    Now call me an apologist :p
  14. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Perhaps he didn't really know. I believe he's just playing with Anakin's emotions here. By telling him that he killed Padme, it fueled his anger more and made him fall deeper to the Dark Side.

    Well I understand why he's saying it, we even see him smile at Anakin's pain, but he would have to at least know that anakin choked her .
    So how did he know that anakin choked her ? that's what I'm wondering .


    g


  15. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "Perhaps he didn't really know. I believe he's just playing with Anakin's emotions here. By telling him that he killed Padme, it fueled his anger more and made him fall deeper to the Dark Side."


    That's what I figured too. The Emperor has to sever Anakin's last tie to his old life, so he not only tells Vader that Padme is dead, but also that Vader himself killed her. Gives it to him with both barrels to make sure the last of Anakin dies. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, as long as The Man In The Iron Mask believes it's true.

    IMHO, this is another reason it would have been better to have that exchange happen while Vader is on the operating table, right before the mask comes down. That way, Anakin is dead by the time the mask goes on, at which point it's all Vader. Plus, you can have an angry reaction from Vader without turning it into the unintentional laugh that the arm-waving "NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" has become.
  16. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    So basically as their fighting and trying to survive being engulfed by flames they should chat it up like schoolgirls

    While I realize the concept may be lost on a PT Fan, people do talk in duels. It helps.

    Remember, Ben and Vader talk in A NEW HOPE... a lot actually. 2 minutes of dueling but more talking (while swinging) in A NEW HOPE than the ROTS duel.

    Luke and Vader talk in EMPIRE. They talk in RETURN.

    It isn't a new concept. In fact, we used to take it for granted until the PT brought us the 'mute' in TPM.


    Perhaps he didn't really know. I believe he's just playing with Anakin's emotions here. By telling him that he killed Padme, it fueled his anger more and made him fall deeper to the Dark Side.

    That's part of the beauty of Sid's role in this. He lies so much, noone will ever know when he told the truth and when he didn't - and it doesn't matter - it only matters that he created mistrust and confused everyone up to the point it was too late.

    As to the Senate, do remember that most of the Senators are in league with the "Dark Lord"? And the other half have fallen for the security for freedom line. And the few dissenters, well, they form the Rebellion. If you want more politics, read the book. Though, I would think less politics would please most of us.

  17. a2dmusic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2001
    star 3
    Good idea, Patrick! Kills a bad moment, and has some nice metaphorical elements. I like!
  18. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    It isn't a new concept. In fact, we used to take it for granted until the PT brought us the 'mute' in TPM.

    There is some dialogue during the duel - Obi says something about the sith being evil and anakin replies "From my point of view the jedi are evil" , which I just don't get - why does he think the jedi are evil ? it doesn't really fit . I can imagine him replying : "The Jedi are weak." 'cos he's all about power now, but for him to have reached the idea that the jedi are all evil would really have needed a lot more development .

    g

  19. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Random thoughts from Lurking:

    ---I think Vader's "NOOOO!" would have worked better if he immeadiately shouted, rather than start mubling "But...she was alive blah blah blah". That whole thing made me laugh, which shouldn't be the reaction to that scene.

    Definitely would have been better if after Sidious said "You killed her" Vader immeadiately shouted the "NOOOO!".

    ---I think I forgot to mention the whole Qui Gon thing during my earlier post. But hey, that's pretty much how forgettable that scene was. The regular viewer probably don't even remember who the hell Qui Gon was (some of my friends don't even know the name, they only knew Liam Neeson played Kenobi's mention).

    Anyway, the whole mentioning Qui Gon was completely pointless, unles the new Ultra-Edition of the OT now has a scene of Yoda explaining to Luke about Qui Gon [face_plain]

    ---I'm so glad Luke and Leia will never know how pathetic their motehr was. She simply lost her will to live, don't give a damn about her children! Bah! I pray Luke and Leia never find out the truth.

    That's all for now.
  20. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    The theft of the Binary Sunset shot from ANH. This pissed me off more than anything else in the entire movie... what is Owen doing standing on that knoll looking at the twin suns of Tatooine????!

    Actually, that was one of my favourite parts. It made me realise that Luke inherited that stance from Owen and, to a lesser extent, made me realise that Owen and Beru had a hand in keeping Luke to the lightside. Until then, I never really thought of Owen and Beru as important figures but they must have kept Luke honest and decent.
  21. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    I wonder if Owen staring at the sunset was his way of ignoring Kenobi, supposedly because he hates the guy. But really, why would he hate Kenobi, he never even met the guy before? And he didn't seem angry in that scene, both he and Beru looked happy.

    Also, he and Beru both looked young, don't they have children of their own?
  22. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    I figured out why Ewan didn't do as good a job in the acting department in ROTS as he did in the other two:

    Most of his scenes don't have other humans in them. [face_plain]

    Look at how bad his acting is on Utapau. There are no other humans there. Ewan was standing in a blank bluescreened room, talking into the air. So it's hard to blame poor Ewan.

    Look at how bad his acting is in the Jedi Temple after Anakin's little massacre. Again, there are no humans there. It's just Ewan talking into the air.

    Contrast that when Ewan is acting with humans, and it's the good ol' Ewan again.

    Poor Ewan. Lucas really stuck it to him. In spite of which, Ewan managed to escape from the PT unscathed. I don't think there is anyone else of whom we can say that.
  23. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I wonder if Owen staring at the sunset was his way of ignoring Kenobi, supposedly because he hates the guy. But really, why would he hate Kenobi, he never even met the guy before? And he didn't seem angry in that scene, both he and Beru looked happy.

    Possibly this was Lucas' last mintute attempt to show Owen didn't like Obi-Wan. But, then again, he may just show contempt for Obi-Wan in ANH because he worries the boy he has just raised would be influenced by him not because he holds any grudge.

    I assumed Owen didn't greet Obi-Wan in this scene because he had already spoken to Obi-Wan and, perhaps, didn't care to raise Luke. Overall, I wish Lucas did a better job with this.


  24. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    If there's anything in ROTS I have to bash, it's the last scene, really.

    While hawk raises a good point that makes me like things a little more, Owen and Beru never really struck me as the types of people who looked off into the sunset.

    But, more than this ? there is only one thing left I don't understand about how the PT and OT fit together, and that is, what's Owen's beef with Obi-Wan.

    I don't mind anything Obi said about the idealistic crusade etc., I am happy to buy that as him just trying to win Luke over. But why is Owen all huffy-puffy about Obi-Wan? "That wizard's just a crazy old man" and all.

    And it just makes me mad, because all my other continuity questions are either directly answered by the film, or answerable with one minutes' worth of intelligent thought and reasonable assumptions of what happens over 20 years. But I can't crack this nut.


    On the up side, good God is Bonnie Piesse a beauty. If you'd come up to me, oh, eight years ago and said "It will soon be made canon that Aunt Beru was hot in her day" I'd have laughed in your face. :eek:



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  25. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    While hawk raises a good point that makes me like things a little more, Owen and Beru never really struck me as the types of people who looked off into the sunset.

    That's actually a very good point that blows my point right out of the water. Luke was the dreamer who looked up at the sun. Owen was the realist who was concerned with getting on with working.

    In regards to your main concern, I do think Owen's reaction to hearing about Obi-Wan may simply be a concern that Luke may want to leave with the man who gave them the baby many years before. It was probably hanging over his head all his life. So, I don't think it necessarily has to look as "Owen dislikes Obi-Wan". He fears that if Obi-Wan enters Luke's life again, he will lose his adoptive son and that makes perfect sense to why he gets stuck into him.

    On a side note, I don't think this was Lucas' intention back in the 70s.
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