main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

[SWC]The Jedi Draft

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Suzuki_Akira, Oct 8, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    Strilo edit: OK this issue is currently under discussion between Stryphe and myself. In the future contact us with any issues instead of opening a Comms thread. If you would like to dispute our authority in the SWC forum then you can take it to an Administrator via PM.

    If you've been in SWC, chances are you've heard of the Draft. I daresay it in conjunction with the Starfighter Draft are the most popular threads on SWC period. One of the most popular games as well. But recently its been locked and unlocked and banned and postponed by the mods for the actions of a few people. We've begged, pleaded, sucked up, made complete fools of ourselves to placate the mods who jump to ban the Draft at each opportunity. In competition, there will be arguements, there will be heated emotions, and the mods IMO aren't being as understanding of that as I feel they need to be. This is absolutely ridiculous in every facet of things, and this issue needs to be addressed. The Jedi Draft Litany of Complaints:

    Complaints

    We, the draftees, are tired of being punished for the deeds of a few.

    We, the draftees, are tired of the constant need for placation.

    We, the draftees, are sick of having to be complete angels to each other and the mods just so our wants will be considered.

    We, the draftees, are tired of our Draft being:

    Locked,

    Postponed,

    Trivialized,

    Censored,

    Ignored,

    and obstructed from continuing.


    We are prepared to work with the mods and get the Draft back in order, we are prepared to compromise, but we are not prepared for a draft to be completely ruined for at least a dozen users because of the mildly bad actions of one. Please, this needs to be solved.

    Strilo, I can understand you and Stryphe discussing this, but at the same time, your users have come here to present a concern. I think that it would be appropriate to leave this thread open for discussion on the drafts and encourage your input into this discussion.
     
  2. SecondBest

    SecondBest Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Agreed.
     
  3. darth_nemisis

    darth_nemisis Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 15, 2004
    Yeah, I agree. I was really enjoying the draft. It was something where we could all get together and have fun, so bring it back!

    [face_skull]darth_nemisis[face_skull]
     
  4. PadawanEmily

    PadawanEmily Jedi Master star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2003
    I...agree. It was going great.
     
  5. HandofSkywalker86

    HandofSkywalker86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2004
    I agree completely.

    HandofSkywalker
     
  6. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I have to say I agree with Suzuki on this one. There have been some heated discussions in the Draft, but I feel they've been resonable. However, supposedly the reason it was closed this time was because bburditt, who runs it, was being a "tyrant".

    I have to disagree with that. I thought he was just trying to keep people from going overboard. I thought he was trying to avoid some of the situations that have caused the Draft trouble before. I can't claim long standing experience with the Draft like some can, but I can claim experience on the JC and this does not seem to be the type of thing that should get a thread closed.

    I think there need to be discussions and concessions on both sides. This would be much better than simply closing it down or delaying it because mods think it's not going well. My experience with this draft is that people have been able to disagree and that burd has been quite reasonable in his moderation of the Draft. I feel the mods should try to understand the nature of the Draft more, because I honestly don't understand what the issue is.

    And finally, yes, it really would be a great loss to SWC to just end the Draft. It's definitely the best thing about the board and has thusfar been quite a good experience for me. I was looking forward to the competition rounds getting started possibly today, only to be quite surprised and confused that the thread was closed.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
     
  7. Katya Jade

    Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2002
    I would say that Strilo and Stryphe are really the only two people that can answer your concerns and the future of the draft threads. I wouldn't imagine that we couldn't have them in SWC as long as they were moderated on a post/user level. That said, I'm not sure of all the history that went behind the decision to give them a "break."
     
  8. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Thank you for reopening this, Kate.

    Even for those of us with no personal stake in the matter, it's important to see constructive discussion allowed in Communications. So long as the thread remains on topic and constructive, it ought to be open.
     
  9. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I know the draft has been re-opened now, but it might be helpful for Stryphe and/or Stilo to let us know exactly what we should or shouldn't do in the thread. None of us wants to see another situation like this, so it might be helpful to know.


    -sj loves kevin spacey
     
  10. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    Yes, I agree. Perhaps there are reasons for a tighter rein on flaming in the Draft, so maybe there should be an outline of exactly what kind of posts are allowed. We already know that political stuff is out of the question, so we already have part of it down.
     
  11. HandofSkywalker86

    HandofSkywalker86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Since the draft has a shady past I think a thread like this will help the participants know whats acceptable and whats not.

    Hand
     
  12. bburditt

    bburditt Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Hey, everyone.

    First of all, I would like to say that I know I am the type of user who will speak his mind about anything, and I'm sure both Strilo, Stryphe, and a lot of the administration know this.

    I admit that I was rather rude to the user who I felt was causing a trouble in the draft, and that I did overreact.

    I'm happy with the decision to reopen the thread, as I feel this is just a minor incident and will not happen again.

    I was going to PM Strilo/Stryphe with the comment another user had directed towards me, but he edited it out, so I didn't PM the mods, but Strilo has informed me of the right thing to do in that situation.

    Anyways, I just want to apoligize to Strilo, Stryphe, administration and the rest of the draft participants for biting the bait, and can assure you that I will continue to run the draft in the manner that you have all known me to run it in. I am more than willing to work with both Strilo and Stryphe so that they are happy with the way it is being run.

    They have made many requests of me, and I truely try my best to comply with them. Today was a simple mistake, and not a deliberate disobey of the rules they have laid out for us.

    Again, I apoligize, and thank the administration for hearing out concerns.
     
  13. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    I don't know a thing about the draft, so I probably shouldn't be posting here, but I felt this matter was worth bringing up.

    Strilo, I do understand that this issue was partially related to you, but you're not a Comms mod. It would be nice if you didn't moderate in Comms except in the case of emergencies such as clear violation of the TOS, especially when one of the Comms mods has already posted and clearly didn't find the thread worthy of a lock.
     
  14. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Well excuse me. I was under the impression that when a thread was specifically about my forum I could lock it if I felt the situation was resolved. After all, many a YJCC mod has locked a thread in here when they felt the situation was resolved. Silly me for thinking things could be consistant.

     
  15. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    After all, many a YJCC mod has locked a thread in here when they felt the situation was resolved. Silly me for thinking things could be consistant.

    It's hard to see how a situation of this sort can be resolved after eight posts (if it has been resolved, explaining that resolution here would be helpful). There's also nothing wrong with letting discussion go. If people feel there's something to discuss, the thread will stay active. If not, it will drop off.

    Threads should be closed only when inappropriate behavior makes it necessary, or if there's some other overriding reason to discontinue discussion. I think it's safe to say neither was present in this particular thread.
     
  16. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    The situation was resolved when Stryphe and I discussed things and the Draft thread was unlocked.
     
  17. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    The Draft may have been unlocked, Strilo, but I believe you're missing the big picture. In the past two drafts you and Stryphe have repeatedly locked and unlocked the draft, and then "locked" it again when you banned it from occuring from another month. No, I don't believe that our end of the teeter totter swinging back up in the air has resolved the larger issue-all it will take is a push of your feet and we'll be on the ground again.
     
  18. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    It's very simple Suzuki and has been explained to you personally. Don't flame. Don't bait. Keep the thread on topic. Heed Moderator warnings. Users are not supposed to act like Mods. PM moderators when you see a problem in the thread.

    These are all extremely simple and common rules on the JC. So long as you guys follow the rules, your game will be left alone. However, considering the number of times Stryphe and I had to intervene in the last Draft thread, you are lucky we even LET you open the new one.

    Once again, all we ask is that you follow the rules of the JC. It's that simple.

     
  19. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    Yes, on paper it seems very simple doesn't it? In practice, it isn't. Like Communism.

    Okay, don't bait, don't flame, yadda yadda yadda. It's in the TOS, right? Sure. But what happens when someone breaks the rule? He's broken it, but who is to be punished? How many people to be punished?

    If I flamed people in, for example, a Big Brother thread, would everyone in it be banned? Would the thread be locked, or would you edit my post? If I tried to act like a mod, is that a permaban? A 24 hour ban? A lock for everyone who wanted to post in that thread and inability for them to reproduce that thread without me in it?

    There are degrees of wrong and right, Strilo, and consequently degrees of punishment. That is the issue.
     
  20. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I say again, considering the number of times the rules were broken and how many Draft regulars they were broken by and the span of time over which they were broken, you are lucky a new Draft was even allowed. Considering how much effort Stryphe and I had to spend moderating that ONE thread, we both felt a break was in order. Besides which, no other game thread on the forums that I am aware of is continually played. They all have time elapse between versions.

    Let me make a suggestion. If you care so much about the draft not getting locked, try working with your fellow posters to keep the thread within the TOS and the rules of the forum. Talk to each other off boards. Encourage them to keep it civil. If they don't, then PM a moderator rather than acting like a Moderator in the thread.

     
  21. Suzuki_Akira

    Suzuki_Akira Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 13, 2003
    We often encourage them, trust me, but in the end of the day they are individuals who make their own choices. But that's not the issue. The issue is "what infraction merits what punishment"? If I'm correct, the issue was this statement by one of the users in that thread:

    Just to let everyone know, I'm getting awful close to putting down my commish duties and walking away from this one.

    I don't want any more of this sarcastic crap. If you don't agree with someone, deal with it.


    He continued to say that he'd PM you if that continued, which apparently is what you want. But I don't understand how the above is so inflammatory that it merits a locked thread. The first paragraph, obviously, is his prerogative-he can leave if he wants. But saying he doesn't want any more crap is borderline pseudo modding at best. If this is the wrong user or quote, I'll gladly apologize. But if not, I think this is the exact kind of thing that we just don't understand.
     
  22. SecondBest

    SecondBest Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Strilo, the thread was locked because of someone's reaction to what they thought would get the thread in trouble. That's one out of fifteen people involved. Unless you meant the two other people who also reacted after that little heated argument. But the funny thing is, they aren't involved in the draft. The last draft- same thing happened. The thread was locked because of two people arguing. We don't mind a month's break, or I don't, but there will be arguments in the draft. That's what makes the draft exciting. As soon as something goes overboard, don't punish the others who didn't do anything. Deal with the users involved. And it's usually the same users in the draft who gets the thread locked. It won't take long to replace them if need be.

     
  23. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    The thread was locked until Stryphe and I could discuss it and take a course of action. It was not intended to be a permanent lock. Think of this recent lock, actually ALL of the locks, as a time out. Everyone just needed to relax while we sorted some things out.

    I do hold the individuals accountable for their actions. I banned users previously for flaming and baiting in the thread. But after qute a few forays into the same thread over and over, I start to go big picture. I locked the previous Draft thread for the purpose of getting everyone's attention because they seemed to not be paying attention to Stryphe and myself. Again, it's like a time-out.

    When I have to spent 3/4 of my "mod time" working on one thread, especially in a forum as busy as SWC, there's a problem. I have no intention of punishing the entire game when one person messes up. However, I support Stryphe's decision to give you all a time out based on how much we had to deal with last time around and how quickly we had to step in this time around.

    As for banning people from the thread, it's a very difficult thing to ban someone from a particular thread and it's not something the Mods really like to do. To my knowledge it's only been done previously in extreme cases and this case does not strike me as extreme.
     
  24. JediJeffro

    JediJeffro Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2001
    I'd just like to ask that EVERYONE follow ALL JC rules.
     
  25. Medical-Droid

    Medical-Droid Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2001
    The thread was locked until Stryphe and I could discuss it and take a course of action. It was not intended to be a permanent lock. Think of this recent lock, actually ALL of the locks, as a time out. Everyone just needed to relax while we sorted some things out.

    This isn't the first time this kind of temporary lock was used and proved effective. In the TPM forum, it was used in the Trilogies thread when things were getting out of hand through the wise guidance of the mods of yore...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.