Arena [SWIMMING!] hey, guys, remember when Phelps won all those medals last summer? And the sport?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by Coruscant, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Coruscant Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 7
    I don't think the arena has a thread for discussion of pro swimming. This shall be it. :)

    So does anyone follow competitive swimming at all? I do. I started swimming last January. Swimming is one of those sports that doesn't seem to be as popular in the USA as it is in other places around the world (namely Australia, land of Thorpe, the king before Phelps).

    Right now, the competitive swimming at Worlds is between its second and third days, and the big question of the hour is whether or not Phelps will beat Paul Biedermann of Germany in the 200 free. Biedermann beat him by 30 milliseconds in the semis, but if you know Phelps, you know a loss provides him with incredible motivation to win. You can watch the races starting tomorrow at 11:50am ET here.

    Another race that'll make good viewing is the 100 fly final on Saturday, when Phelps and a certain Serbian will probably once again go head-to-head. That's right, Milorad Cavic (from the infamous Beijing race where Phelps won by a hundredth of a second) is back! I think Phelps will beat Cavic soundly, especially considering he just set the new WR.

    Last but not least.... the world-governing body for all things aquatically athletic, FINA, has announced that the tech suits will be BANNED! come January 1, 2010. This makes me glad I didn't drain a small fortune on a suit. Swimming may end up returning to the olden days of briefs and jammers only, if the ban stands.

    in the meantime, a little something for the ladies: Ricky Berens splits suit, baring bum, NSFW

    MarcusP2 Edit: Unlock.
  2. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    It doesn't get much coverage here.
  3. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I enjoy watching it during the Olympics but don't follow it much otherwise. I swam on a team for 8 years (I think) as a kid, but was never good enough to really keep up. I love recreational swimming though, and I'm one of those odd people who enjoy doing the butterfly stroke.

    If they're banning the suits, do the records set from last year's Olympics still count? Or do they retroactively wipe them because of the suits?
  4. Coruscant Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 7
    No one really knows yet. There's talk of asterisks. :(

    I too enjoy butterfly, my favorite stroke, and yet the stroke I do the least for the sheer physical exhaustion it inflicts upon me. :p
  5. s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 7
    That's ridiculous to put an asterisk there if the suits weren't banned before that!
  6. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Yeah, I definitely don't think they should erase the records or put asterisks... but it wouldn't surprise me, either.
  7. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    The records from the Olympics, etc won't be in trouble. Its the ones from this World Championships that are questionable (the banned suits only came around this year.) For example...the new 400m world record holder has improved his best time by seven seconds since donning his suit and said without it he wouldn't be within 2 seconds of the mark.
  8. darth_gersh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 6
    I swam form 7yrs old until a senior in high school.

    I was more bummed when they changed the rules for the backstroke turn. A couple of high school records went down because of the rule changes.
  9. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/swimming/8172910.stm

    This pretty much sums up my feeling on the subject. Even the swimmers admit they wouldn't be touching the world records without the new suits.

    Edit: Except the part about "Does a 10-year-old boy in Baltimore want to break Paul Biedermann's record? Is that going to make him join swimming?" I don't care who holds the world record, so long as it was achieved on a level field.
  10. Coruscant Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 7
    So Biedermann beat Phelps, and set a new world record 1:42 flat. My congratulations to him, but honestly, I still think it was the suit. We'll see what happens next year. Bowman was totally classless, though. Phelps seems to be taking it much better (publicly, at least).
  11. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Even Biedermann thinks it was the suit. :p
  12. yankee8255 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    No question it was the suit, Biedermann essentially says so himself, but let's not forget that last year, it was Phelps who had the best suit. Don't forget, one of his golds in Beijing was by 1/100th of a second, against someone who didn't have the same suit as him.
  13. Coruscant Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 7
    Ah, but last year, Biedermann was nowhere near the top of the times for 200 free (as when he raced in the 200 free at Beijing). This year... he's the WR holder. He acknowledges, it's the suit. On the other hand, I don't think the suit had anywhere near as much to do with Phelps's victories in Beijing as did his training and hard work for several years beforehand.
  14. yankee8255 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Most of his wins in Beijing, the suit played no role. He won almost every race by a dominating margin. But one of his individual golds was by .01 second, with second place going to a guy who didn't have the speedo suit. If people are going to jump all over Biedermann, in fairness you have to admit that without the suit, Phelps probably wouldn't have won all 8 golds.


    EDIT: Nice comeback on his part last night. No suit required.
  15. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    I'm pretty sure Cavic was wearing a full body LZR in that race too, yankee.
  16. yankee8255 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Are you sure? The following is a quote from a NYTimes article
    That clearly implied that Cavic did not have the Speedo suit in Beijing, at least that's how I read it. Interestingly, the updated version of the article doesn't have that quote anymore. If Cavic did have the Speedo suit, I obviously retract my last post.

    And to be clear, I believe Phelps is the greatest swimmer ever, hands down. I'm mainly reacting to the way his coach has gone completely overboard, which I find completely classless. When Phelps (and others) had the best suit, I didn't hear him calling for a ban.
  17. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    That just seems like poor reporting, because as far as I can tell from footage and some googling he was wearing one.

    See here, for example: http://www.speedo80.com/lzr-racer/results/2008/8/16/swimming-history-rewritten-in-beijing/
    Or here.
  18. yankee8255 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Like I said, the quote is not in the article anymore. It really stuck out to me when I first read it because all the American coverage was so unbelievably biased against Biedermann, as if he could barely swim one lap without drowning but for the suit. He's not the only one wearing that suit, but he was the only one who broke those two records.

    I like the message Biedermann got from Ian Thorpe after he broke the 400m record: "It was also you, it wasn't just the suit." That's class. Phelps and especially his coach should take note.
  19. Coruscant Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 7
    Phelps already said long before Thorpe said anything that he was beaten by a swimmer, not a suit.

    Bowman, on the other hand, needs to go to night school to learn some class, I think we can all agree.

    edit: btw, in the 100 fly back in Beijing, not only did Cavic wear the suit, but Phelps only wore legskins.

    [image=http://www.skibrokeback.com/NESR/phelps_cavic.pg.jpg]

    Amazing. :p

    Phelps and Cavic will soon go at it again in the 100 fly. :D
  20. Thrawn1786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2004
    star 5
  21. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    Lots of world records bit it, though.
  22. Coruscant Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 7
    Has anyone seen the times from the French short course meet? No suits.






    They are bad. :p
  23. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    Not sure if anyone's been paying attention but the World Championships are on again. Australia is easily winning the silver medal tally but only a couple of golds. However both of those are in events we rarely or never win: the 4x100 free and 100 free men's. There's been a good mix of winners, Brazil, Denmark, Italy and France have all popped up for a couple of golds.

    It's been interesting seeing a lot of the times...they seem to go out hard, under WR, but fade at the end. Only Lochte has set one, in the 200IM.

    Another big story: Phelps has won only the 200 butterfly.
  24. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    Who needs the Thorpedo when you have the Missile!
  25. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Phelps is old for a swimmer.