Lit Sword of the Jedi by Christie Golden

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Todd the Jedi, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    We may see Jacen, Jaina, and mara, if the movies follow the pattern of twenty years between trilogies, it wouldn't be that hard with today's make up effects, and digital tech, to set the movies around 24 ABY, and just have The ST play out.
  2. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    I know that we like to ascribe all of the world's problems to Denning on this forum, but Traviss explicitly stated in the round-robin interview that killing Mara was her idea. There's also no reason to assume that Denning was behind Pellaeon's death either; each LOTF author had agency over their own books.
  3. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    Indeed theoretically possible. I just prefer going with something in the 30s as that would have minimal to no effect on the EU as it stands, and reflects the real world passage of time also. And would still allow all three to appear on-screen unscathed. (Sorry Anakin)

    Having never heard (read?) that interview I didn't know that.

    That said, I should clarify, personally I don't actually mind Denning, or LOTF/FOTJ and actually sort of enjoy most of his works. I just meant to respond to Zeta's opinion that "the Denning-verse is bad" with why the deaths aren't actually that big of a tragedy. And collected all the deaths under that point rather than specific author attribution.

    Either way, the point still stands. None were really that bad for maintaining the EU and giving good stories (regardless of which author was ultimately responsible). The main problem is incomprehensible motivation for WHY the character's actions in LOTF and FOTJ occurred as they did. And even then, the general concept of the series is actually pretty decent.
  4. Team Padme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Currently reading Ascension it's not too bad so far. I have a feeling I would've really enjoyed SOTJ :(
  5. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The problem is, I don't want anything the Denningverse tried to sell me. I was never really that impressed with Denning, the Myrkr strike team bugged me when I originally read it, though I otherwise enjoyed SbS. The Denningverse was complete and totally not what I had in mind for the post-NJO. The deaths mean something to me, because none of them were killed for a valid reason. I see not point in Darth Vader II (Darth Caedus) and believe that the entire concept goes against everything Traitor stands for.
  6. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    I have to say that Mara's death seems unwarranted, unneeded, and really isn't logical at all. I hate the fact that she was killed off. Any by who killed her. It's just stupid.

    That being said, I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for forming the universe post-NJO. You can't please everyone.
  7. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    Apparently LOTF, and FOTJ caused Lucasfilm to make some changes, in editing, and at Del Rey

    They brought Howard Roffman back in charge of licensing, fired Karen, and Sue, hired Jennifer to replace Sue,
    and put Frank Parisi, right into the Del Rey offices. and depoted Shelley to be under Frank.
  8. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    No. No one was fired.
    Mia Mesharad and Jeff_Ferguson like this.
  9. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    Yeah. That's baseless speculation. Sue retired after being at the post for twenty years, and Lucasfilm doesn't decide who gets promoted or demoted at Del Rey.
  10. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    They were, Lucasfilm let's people leave without some kind of cover, I'm a writer, and the news went through Del Rey, and Random House pretty quickly,
    Don't forget Karen was scheduled for two new books, she also leaked the fact that FOTJ, was a nine book series.

    It was her idea not only to kill off mara, which caused a huge fan backlash, and a major drop in sales after Invincible, she also had the idea that a Sith Lord should finally die, The original plan was for Tenel Ka to be the Sacrifice, according to Troy Denning's facebppk page, But Mara, and Jacen would have joined Ben, and Luke during the journey, with Jacen trying to be a good father after killing Allana's mother.
    Karen Traviss was originally going to bw working on FOTJ, but with her gone, they went with Christie Golden.

    In a way, George Lucas sees the way of fixing the EU''''s mistakes, getting Chewie, and Mara, and Jacen nack, it was after Chewie died that he stated that their were two worlds, his world, of the movies, and the licensing world of the comics, books, and games.

    It shouldn't be forgotten, that he loves chewie just as much as any other character, and he had a hand in the creations of Jacen, and Mara, when he was working on TTT, with Zahn.

    As for Lucasfilm having no influence, on Del Rey, Del Rey has to pay Lucasfilm for the write to publish Star Wars, Lucasfilm is a powerful client, and if they want to keep the license, they have to perform. and they could lose the revenue they get from selling Star Wars.
    Last edited by newdawn12, Dec 3, 2013
    Team Padme likes this.
  11. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I'm so confused because this sounds so much better relatively speaking and I don't know what that means. I mean on a deeply ontological level here.
    _Catherine_ likes this.
  12. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    Yea that makes a whole lot of sense. I'm sure Lucas dictates what happens at Del Rey.
  13. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    And given the fact that all 18 books were Bestsellers I doubt they'd be making wholesale staff changes to appease some fan anger. Changes to forthcoming works? Sure. We saw plenty of those in FOTJ and in the plan to move away from longer series. But they're not going to fire staff over top performing sales.

    Omas's and Mara's I'll grant have no reason. Pellaeon I feel is a more fitting death than having him pass away of old age (like Ackbar did) because it shows just how far to the dark side Jacen's allowed himself to fall. And therefore I actually applauded that they killed Jacen in Invincible because it shows that not every good person who falls to the dark side can be redeamed and saved. Honestly it was becoming an annoying and unrealistic trope for star wars. It was nice to see that sometimes bad guys actually get killed by good guys. How shocking.

    And while I know that everyone seems to be high on Traitor, I've never seen why that one book should dictate the future of the universe any more than any other. Yes, it was well written and brought up some very interesting moral points. But that said, to say that a character's actions 15 years later are contrary to how they should have acted based on what happened to them then is a little non-sensicle.

    I'm pretty sure that none of us would act the same way today as we would 15 years ago. And similarly I don't expect my fictional characters to. The problem isn't that he fell to the dark side, its actually a normal plot point and character evolution. The problem is the 13 year gap from NJO to LOTF where we don't get to learn WHY.

    Assuming for a moment that you do have a stunning amount of inside information that I don't think anyone's heard before, I think it might be relevant to point out that GL isn't actually doing anything with the ST and therefore has basically zero influence as to whether the 'mistakes' of the EU are fixed. Let alone whether Mara, Chewie or Jason even appear at all in it.

    And so far as I know, Lucas has precisely nothing to do with the characters Zahn created in TTT
    Last edited by Darth_Henning, Dec 3, 2013
  14. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I highly doubt that. FOTJ wasn't planned yet, that early in LOTF. In fact, the ending to LOTF wasn't planned yet.

    I also highly doubt Lucas wants to bring Jacen and Mara back, or that the ST is all about his plan to bring them back.
  15. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
  16. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    Perhaps not the beet phrase, but 18 best sellers out of 18 books is pretty good by most publisher's standards. No its no Harry Potter or Da Vinci Code, but that's still pretty far from "oh darn it, fire everyone" territory.
  17. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    It's all moot anyway, with the ST being based on Lucas treatments, and the fact, that his story will probably have some eu elements, and characters, following
    his basic ideas, The past, is now the past, and all we have now is the future. By the way i'm in communication with several prominent Star Wars bloggers, and from what they've been hearing, the treatment, is based on his ST ideas from the 80's, look up George Lucas biography written by Pollock.

    it's sounding like the story takes place 20 years after ROTJ, Jacen, and jaina are Luke's Padawans, and He'll Mara sometime in the story,
    the Sith are based out of the PT, and TCW
  18. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    The list of Star Wars novels that don't hit the best seller list is more exclusive than the list of Star Wars novels that do so I don't think that it's a particularly good barometer for sales. Having Star Wars on the cover pretty much guarantees that it will hit the list for one week. Longevity on the best seller list, or sales over a longer period of time like the year of release are a better gauge.

    LOTF/FOTJ did not do particularly well in the latter regard. Haven't really looked at best seller list longevity because it says nothing about cumulative sales -- a book can sell 10,000 copies in one week and then not sell anymore again and hit the list and otherwise perform poorly. Longevity hints at some cumulative success but it's still relative to other book sales in those weeks and not as useful.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Dec 3, 2013
  19. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The problem is, there isn't any basis for Jacen to fall beyond Denning's delusions about what was actually going on in the NJO, so there is absolutely, complete, and totally nothing normal about the character devolution that is Darth Vader II.
  20. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    But not at the levels Lucasfilm wanted, and that Disney will want to see.

    Disney, and Lucasfilm want TTT kind of sales, Star Wars is the number one sci fi/fantasy franchise, and it can't beat Harry Potter, Hunger Games, and 50 Shades of Gray?
  21. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    The Star Wars novelizations couldn't beat those literary franchises so those expectations are unreasonable of the spin-off fiction. I highly doubt that motivates Disney or Lucasfilm.
  22. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    No way! You talk to bloggers?! And they hear stuff? Man you sure are connected.

    Did I mention that I actually am George Lucas' neighbor?

    And I think its hilarious that you state the ST will have EU elements, characters, ect AND be based on his idea from the 80's.....before the EU existed.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  23. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    Ill grant its not a great barometer, but there's no public source of total numbers, so its impossible to have any long-term sales comparison for total sales (which in this era is actually quite annoying).

    I doubt any was in the multi-millions of sales numbers, or even close to that, but what I'm pointing out is that none of them could be considered a commercial failure resulting in mass firings. That's all I'm saying.


    Even TTT sold somewhere between 5 and 7 million copies. That doesn't come close to touching any single book of any of those franchises. And that's the most popular star wars novels ever. To pretend that anyone would expect that from Star Wars Spinoff fiction is absolutely farsicle.
  24. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    hey my uncle works at lucasarts
  25. Cynical_Ben Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2013
    star 4
    SuperShadow, is that you?