Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Plurimus, Oct 18, 2003.

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  1. Plurimus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 3
    Having written the book on lightsaber fighting, I am very impressed with what I've seen of the Clone Wars cartoon.

    Could someone contact me if they know how I can get in touch with Geddy Tartakovsky.
  2. Xenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 4
    WHat book? where can i get it?
  3. JediMasterGuff Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 5
    Check his sig, there's a site about his book.
  4. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    Hey Plurimus, love your book! ;)

    When I watched that little promo, I was blown away at how perfectly Genndy has captured the Jedi fighting style. You should also check out Samurai Jack, which has some wonderfully coreographed swordplay.
  5. Plurimus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 3
    I enjoy watching Samurai Jack but I have to admit I don't go out of my way to watch it. I'll watch it when I come across it channel surfing.

    Japanese sword fighting is very evident in Samurai Jack, so when I watched the UK clip I was very pleased. Anakin, Mace, and the other Jedi were quick and deadly -- as it should be.

    One thing I don't like about the PT lightsaber fighting is that it's not Japanese enough. Especially when the Jedi are essentially an homage to the samurai. Alas, perhaps I expect too much.
  6. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, I know what you mean. The best duel IMO is the ESB one. It's fast paced in some parts, and has cool long stare downs (Samurai style) in others.

    Still the prequels are okay, the constant twirling can get a bit old though.

    My favorite duel section of the Prequels is where Anakin and Dooku stare each other down in a variation of jodan no kamae in near darkness. Then they launch into a fury of attacks. Cool.

    In relation to the Clone War cartoon. The final two episodes of the series are a massive duel between Anakin and Ventress. From the concept art, they both use two lightsabers at one point! :D

    Also note the Samurai style with which Anakin and Obi Wan rest their arms (can be seen in the 50 odd new screen captures). Totally cool. Reminds me of the Ronin from Yojimbo.
  7. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Especially when the Jedi are essentially an homage to the samurai. Alas, perhaps I expect too much.

    True, most of them fought the Imperials during the Meji revolution ;)
  8. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    Aside from the campaigns of Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu during the sengoku period, the rebellion of the Samurai against the Meji government is my favorite peroid in the military history of Japan (That and the russo-japanese war). :) I'm so pumped for the Last Samurai, hopefully it'll be more Shogun than Mission Impossible. ;)

    They went down fighting too. Most estimates put the Samurai kill ratio at 3:1, dispite being outnumbered and outgunned. I really don't think the Samurai could have gone out any better. They died with nobility and great honor.
  9. Plurimus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 3
    Unfortunately the samurai were on the wrong side. No intended correlation to SW (because SW isn't real), but the samurai fought against the government because they were xenophobic of the West and the West's new armies. A good reading of that period's history shows that there were a great number of samurai who recognized the superior weapons that the West brought to their land.

    Being a stickler for history, it would have been a stronger story if Lucas made the Jedi anti- progressive ? a Jedi Order which refused to change with the times. The emperor would be touting a better form of government for the people, making the "old order" less desirable and thus making the Jedi Order irrelevant. Instead, the Jedi Order falls because of one individual, and not because of a "decaying" society trying to re-invent itself. That old chestnut.

    The cartoon screen captures are pretty sweet. Very traditional samurai stances. When I taught actors for a SW fan film their sword fight choreography, I taught them to proper stances at the beginning and end of fight phrases. I couldn't teach them the concept of zanshin, so hitting stance cues was the next best thing. You guys should check out the stills at Revelations. Go to the "production" section to see lightsaber still from the cave scenes. I'm the one with the pink lightsaber. Though I don't want to brag, the fan film's fight scenes are better than those in Kill Bill. I can't promise what the final cut will look like (that's not my department), but I think people will like it.

    Looking forward to Last Samurai, as well as LotR.
  10. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    I was under the impression that it was more of an internal conflict between the Samurai (traditional rulers of Japan) and the newly reborn Imperial power (The Emperor had western backing). Does it matter if they were on the "right" side? The Samurai were going down one way or another. At least their legacy lived on. :)

    The show should highlight the Jedi's unarmed combat training too. As Mace loses his saber and fights hand to hand against battle droids in one episode. :D Should be the Jedi equivelent to Karate/Judo/Jujitsu which is what disarmed Samurai used.
  11. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Being a stickler for history, it would have been a stronger story if Lucas made the Jedi anti- progressive ? a Jedi Order which refused to change with the times. The emperor would be touting a better form of government for the people, making the "old order" less desirable and thus making the Jedi Order irrelevant. Instead, the Jedi Order falls because of one individual, and not because of a "decaying" society trying to re-invent itself. That old chestnut.

    LOL have we watched the same PT? The Jedi Order are Anti-Progressive and refuse to change with the times.
    TPM showed that with their dismissal of Anakin because he was too old, and they feared the fear within him.
    And whose to say the Emperor wont tout a different form of government in Episode 3? Hell in AOTC he already has Anakin agreeing to his idea ;)

    The PT is showing a decaying society and an Order falling because of their too rigid stance. Its not all down to one person (I take it you mean Anakin, and frankly you are completely wrong).
    Remember Palpatine will push for the Jedi's destruction when he forms the Empire (therefore re-inventing the decaying society by ridding it of a weak Order).
  12. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    Agrees with "teh" Terrious. ;)
  13. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    If anyone knows how to contact Tartakovsky, let ME know too. I want to interview him.
  14. JediMasterGuff Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 5
    Somehow I get the feeling there will be a chat for HS members sometime in the near future ;)
  15. Plurimus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 3
    Darth Terrious: LOL have we watched the same PT? The Jedi Order are Anti-Progressive and refuse to change with the times. TPM showed that with their dismissal of Anakin because he was too old, and they feared the fear within him. And whose to say the Emperor wont tout a different form of government in Episode 3? Hell in AOTC he already has Anakin agreeing to his idea.

    The PT is showing a decaying society and an Order falling because of their too rigid stance. Its not all down to one person (I take it you mean Anakin, and frankly you are completely wrong). Remember Palpatine will push for the Jedi's destruction when he forms the Empire (therefore re- inventing the decaying society by ridding it of a weak Order).



    Thanks for your counter arguments, but GL hasn't presented a historically sophisticated background for the fall of the Jedi. He merely pulls from various historical events (Roman Civil War, US Civil War, European Fascism). There is no revolutionary social change that the Emperor purports to profess. It's simply good versus evil, and the choice Anakin makes to do evil because of his desire for power.

    Behind all revolutionary political upheavals is a huge swell in the way people see how they will live, usually reflected in the leadership of the time. Lincoln desired an undivided nation without slavery. Hitler spoke of building a great nation of purity that touched the masses of the German speaking people of Europe. Marcos made constitutional justifications for his dictatorship. Julius Caesar while wanting personal power, also spoke on behalf of the poor and instituted social reforms which helped the poor and were popular with them.

    The Emperor is some machinating and evil politician who gets elected by a "sympathy vote." There are not throngs of people clamoring on his behalf, creating a situation where the senate has to acknowledge that a vote against Palpatine is a vote against the people. Palpatine doesn't even even hold sway over a military force ? the Jedi are servants not zealots, the clone troopers are organic automatons conveniently created by his diabolical scheming. Julius commanded legions (literally), Lincoln held moral rights behind his cause, Hitler held deterministic genetic superiority (exactly as Socrates admired the Spartan eugenics of an elite society), and Marcos (supported by the US), himself a lawyer, professed capitalistic anti-Communism.

    In AOTC, what do we get? "Mesa propose that the Seanate give emergency powers to the Supreme Chancellor." And a pathetic, "I love democracy. I love the Republic." Any attempt to make the story "business becoming government" as Amidala says in the original script is lost in the final editing of the movie. And that's what gets me. Star Wars has all the potential to have been a fantastic social commentary, not just cool lightsaber fights and realistic digital worlds.

    To get back to Japan, it wasn't clear in my earlier post, but the samurai I mentioned who supported the new Meiji government didn't just wave flags and say "You go, Emperor, and bring glory to the land of the rising sun. These were traditionally reared samurai who got it into their head that something had to be done to transform Japanese society. Tradition of many samurai wasn't going to be enough. These new samurai learned Dutch and English, traveled to Europe, got Western educations in science, politics, and arts. They wanted to transform (some desired to sweep away) the feudal society and turn it into a vital, thriving, modern country. The samurai who fought against the modern army had ideals, but they were short-sighted and chaffing of their loss of political influence and resentful of approaching Western domination. The history of the upcoming Last Samurai (the movie) is a historic cultural clash between Japanese patriots.

    I'm not very enthusiastic for the Jedi of the Republic. I can do the lightsaber fighting they did, but I also learned languages, politics, and listened to the arguments of the political elites and the heartfelt opinions of the comman person, whe
  16. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    You'll just have to wait for episode III before you make that call. There's is a rather important choice Anakin makes in that film. And it deals with the relations in his life. :)
  17. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Plurimus:

    Why such a long winded post?

    And why mix in what you thought should of happened?
    This isn't about you, me or any of the fans on this site.

    Star Wars has always been an adventure story, but the PT is a more complex thing to understand (hence your apparent lack of understanding it). I've said this all to often to bashers as well, you go over the actual points which are key to why the PT is interesting but dismiss them because they aren't to your liking.

    The Jedi's fall is more tragic if they are totally fooled by Palpatine, their arrogance and ignorance has caught up with them and they are entwined in a web which will have them become the scapegoats Palpatine has brilliantly set them up to be.
    By the time they realise what has happened, who is behind it and how they were fooled, it is all too late, they are hunted down and destroyed.
    The Jedi from the beginning of their Order have been a very noble and peaceful group of sentient beings, but their decadence has come from following their rules to rigidly not allowing themselves to be open minded and follow "the Will of the Force". They have in a sense lost their humanity, and the symbolism of it is so blatantly obvious.
    The idea of an Ivory Tower (Jedi Temple) where they are shut in from the voices and opinions of the people they so readily serve and protect, shows how far they have gone. They have essentially lost contact with the citizens of the galaxy, not being amongst the teeming amount of life thats out there. Which is why the Sith were able to remain hidden and even when they were revealed, Darth Sidious managed to remain out of their grasp.

    The Jedi of the PT era are not the budding heroes like the Rebel Alliance in the OT, they are an organisation of flawed individuals who are obviously going to fall and are now setup to fall.
    Anakin Skywalker is a brilliant character to be within the Jedi because he has highlighted the many many flaws the Jedi are privy to, and that are with in the Jedi's Code.
    He has attachments, which the Jedi Code say is wrong yet we as Human beings know that is not true and that to have love and attachments to people is a good thing.
    He forsakes all his Jedi training, when he tries to rescue his mother, he loses control then and when he goes after Dooku, he even breaks the Code by marrying Padme.
    Do you really think Lucas is saying that Marriage is wrong? Or is it that the Code is wrong?

    And also I think Anakin did face a family vs. duty dilemma, when Padme was thrown out of the Gunship on Geonosis, he was willing to go down and get her, save her life and then continue on with their mission. Yet he was forced to continue his duty, persuaded by his Mentor that Padme would have wanted him to do that.
    But in Episode 3 he will face the same decision again, but this time I think the result will be even more disasterous. It could lead to Padme's death, and worse turn Anakin over to the Darkside leaving him to forsake his duty as a Jedi and go against them because they destroyed his love and only family that was his wife (and child).

    We are only 2 films into the PT, the big pay off and the big decisions the crucial ones have yet to made. Episode 3 may well have everything we are looking for.
  18. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    I think that we're getting off topic a bit.



    Mr. Jamilla, your book looks really interesting. I'll have to keep my eyes out for it.
  19. Plurimus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 3
    Darth T:

    I love a good debate (and perhaps the post, as Trilobite says, is getting a bit off topic), but I think there have has been too much reading into Star Wars as some mythological cinematic production which explains the world we live in. I would hope it does, but when I look at SW as I would literature or cinema or history or swordsmanship, Star Wars' depth just isn't there. SW is a fairy tale (as Lucas says), not the Iliad.

    Star Wars great fun, and (despite the cliche) it has influenced many of my life choices. Lucas hits to mark so profoundly when he says FEAR is one of the greatest threats to living a fulfilling life. But my honest (and hopefully sufficient) criticism of Lucas' PT doesn't make me a basher except to those that think a disagreement is anti-Star Wars.

    In your post you ask: Do you really think Lucas is saying that Marriage is wrong? Or is it that the Code is wrong? Well, that's for me or you to decide based on the movies, our experiences, and whatever proof will make a convincing argument. For the Jedi, just as it is for Pope John Paul II (with whom I disagree), it is wrong (what a morally loaded word that is). From a naturalistic perspective, marriage actually goes counter to the genetic nature of men.

    Star Wars is art because it makes us think of something more than the physical things that are the movies. But there is good art and better art, and there is some downright awfully bad art. The way I choose to judge SW is rather strict, which is why I come off as so harsh. Artists are a bizarre group of people -- I'm one, got many friends, dated one -- and criticism is one of the hardest things to bear. But when art gets people riled up, that's a good thing. The worst reaction to art is indifference. Despite what most people think, what Lucas says SW is, isn't necessarily how it really is. In fact, artists admit that they are often the worst critics of their own art. Art by its very nature is public, and we are ultimately the judges of his art. It's up to you and me to judge how good his movies are (and will be). So far, I'm not that encouraged by what I hear of EP 3, but perhaps I am being unfair by not waiting until I actually see it. (And yet past experience is hard to discount.)

    Whether I sway you or not isn't really the point. As you already know I'm already strong of opinion (opinionated some might say). What is important is that there is an exchange of ideas between us. It helps me become a better thinker, hopefully a better person. And the same for you.

    My purpose in starting this thread was that I was so impressed with Tartakovsky that I wanted to compliment him directly on his work with the Clone Wars cartoon. I think my previous post (and this one) underscores how big a compliment mine will be.
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