Oceania Sydney Riots

explain to the world what exactly a nipper lifeguard can do that would justify being bashed by a gang ...

Use your imagination. All it takes is one racist comment to deserve a beating. I'm certainly not saying this is what happened, but that's just one thing that justifies being bollocked.

And by the way, you criticise others for assuming that the lifeguards were blameless, yet you make the same assumption about the victims of the mob. So which is it?

Girls trying to get away from the beach (who were not even Lebonese) do not deserve having dozens of glass bottles smashed in their faces. It is obvious that these women had nothing to do with anything. They were bashed simply for having olive coloured skin. Thank goodness for the brave cops for doing what they were allowed to do. Watching the footage of cops (without ANY protective gear) shielding the women with their own bodies really made me wish I had the authority to give them all a massive raise.

 

And here is the attitude that is at the root of all of this, that somehow it is okay to beat up another person for some minor slight against you. This is the kind of testosterone induced idiocy that starts most of this kind of trouble and is in no way an excuse for the behaviour.

 

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realise that racism was a minor thing.
If someone says something racist, then everyone of that race (IMO) has the right to bollock them. If you don't want to be bashed, keep your mouth shut.

 

So you honestly believe that making a racist comment is sufficient justification for a gang of hardened youths to beat the utter crap out of an adolescent?

I'm not talking about the reason for the attack.

I'm talking about whether a racist comment gives a gang the right to beat the utter crap out of an adolescent. Whether it is a just response.


Of course a racist comment would provoke them - which is why I doubt a nipper lifeguard would have the cajones to make one to their faces - but does that then give a gang the authority to beat the utter crap out of them?

 

It certainly dosn't give them the legal right, but I'd never condem a gang for bashing some who made a racist comment towards them. I don't see how this can be so hard to understand. If a ethnic bloke walks up to a group of Aussies and says something racist to them, then go for it fellas, bollock him.

However, most of the victims of yesterdays riot were plainly people trying to "get the **** outta dodge"

 

I don't think he was saying racism wasn't important.

Just that deciding to go and thump someone isn't the most intelligent thing to do.
How much self control does it take -not- to thump someone if they taunt you? That's part of growing up, learning how to deal with it without letting yourself be drawn into a fight.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't defend oneself - if there is physical violence that puts you in danger, by all means fight back. However, verbal insults can be dealt with differently and certainly don't give anyone the right to start punching up anyone else.

The racism is definitely important and needs to be dealt with in a constructive manner, not just reverting to the primitive and letting fists fly. Ultimately, all the little fights like that will actually slow down the road to eliminating racism...

 

Serves me right for not reading the entire thread. Now I'm not entirely sure who is saying what, but all I know is that I wholeheartedly agree with Dingo here.

 

Have any of you seen any video or photos from the riots? What possible thing could one man have done to justify being beaten by dozens of people?

Please justify that.

Oh and Oz, the reason you don't differentiate between a bottle over the head in an unprovoked attack and two paid professionals agreeing to box in a public event is because you are trying to get a rise out of SoE anyway you can.

Despite you saying you're not judging, you are, read your own words and try and actually discuss the topic at hand and not derail it into your opinions on boxing matches to try and get someone into an argument with you.

Elliot, well done at actually having some kind of reasoned outlook on this and not rising to the bait.

The ones saying the riots are justified? Convince me.

 

I've had to deal with racism while growing up, some of it aimed at me at times. The ideal and opinions behind it are dangerous, but the fact of the matter is that they are just words coming from someone who deserves not a second of your time. What you are condoning is a culture of violence that says you have a right to seek vengence on someone if they slight you. All that does is lead down the slippery slope of escalation that ends as this did with completely innocent people paying for the frelling stupidity of a very small group of people.

Racial and ethnic hatred will never be battled through physical force, it will only be inflamed by them.

 

Elliot, well done at actually having some kind of reasoned outlook on this and not rising to the bait.

If I told him I've been trainging (Thai kick boxing) and fighting comps since I was 3 then I just assumed that would be what the mentality that me posts would be considered on. It's not that hard to ignore people who compare riots to boxing matches.

I've had to deal with racism while growing up, some of it aimed at me at times.

What nationality are you? Or is it racism from ethnics? Just curious.
I too have copped a heap of **** for my background, but sadly, I will admit I lack the composure to ignore it. Ahwell. Just the same as how all the Aussie yobbos watching the Int Rules matches (australia vs ireland) couldn't ignore the fact I was going for Ireland. They, in their 'patriotic' drunken state ALWAYS try to start fights because of it.
The way I see it is that if someone is going to get racial then they should either have a lot of friends with them, or they should be an EXTREMELY good fighter. Do be racist and more often than not, you wont be hurt by those people.
I got no idea what happened with the lifeguard, but I'm just speaking in general.

The racism is definitely important and needs to be dealt with in a constructive manner, not just reverting to the primitive and letting fists fly.

I do understand what you're saying. But people who havn't experienced it, do need to understand what goes into your head when you're on the recieving end of racist comments. Not only does it simply piss you off, but it really can be utterly hurtfull and that is what gets people all fired up.

 

So the next time someone makes a joke about scots being skints, I can beat the utter crap out of them? I don't see what that achieves. It certainly wouldn't do anything for me, and I'm pretty sure it would not do anything for the other person.

As marcus aurelius says: just pity them, they're idiots.


If someone insults you, and you beat them to a pulp, what does that achieve? Maybe the rush of androgens will give you the momentary illusion of feeling better. But when it wears off you'll still be insulted, and you'll also be someone who beats up people who call you names. Remember sticks and stones? And the other person? Will it change them? It will just reinforce their attitudes, and make them more determined and more likely to continue.


The Sydney riots clearly show what happens when you respond with violence.

 

What bothers me is that ethnics can get away with making racist comments whereas whites instantly receive that label for even the slightest racial statement, and are finally called a "nazi" for good measure.

 

I don't see what that achieves.

I'm not saying it achieves anything and I'm not saying brawling is preferable over ignoring the situation, but to judge people who react violently when people are heavily racist towards them, well it's unfair. Sure, being bashed is unfair, but if you've done something to provoke it then you can't really complain and say you're an innocent victim. Sure you're a victim, anyone who gets bashed is, but if you've 'asked for it' then get the **** out of here.

I don't mind the odd 'racial' joke (you know, irish jokes, aboriginal jokes, jewish jokes etc) but when they're meant to hurt people, well, it's on.

 

And you're just speculating that the lifeguard in question made a racist comment to provoke the gang. Don't confuse your speculation as factual.

 

Do you want to read the ****ing thead?
I already stated that I'm not accusing the lifeguard of anything.

Yes the thread has derailed big time, so no, I am not talking about the lifeguard.

Nice try though.

 

You're the one using the harsh language, not I.

Yes, we are talking about the lifeguard. You say that he may have made a racist comment to the gang and anyone who does that deserves to be bashed. Quit denying it.

 

Wow I forgot what it's like debating with people who read through paradigm like eyes.

Anyhoo, we are obviously NOT talking about the lifeguard considering I never said that he was being racist. I simply said that we cannot assume that he's 100% blameless. I also said what happened to him was wrong.
What we are discussing is the way people react to racism.

Nice try again. Third time lucky maybe?

 

I think everyone needs to take a step back for a moment and take a quick breath, people are getting a little too emotionally invested in this discussion.

For what my own opinion is worth, nothing justifies a riot by any group. It was an immature and inappropriate response, but you'd be an idiot to think it was unprovoked. The comment in particular that made me want to respond was someone earlier in the thread saying that people somehow had the right to "protect" the beach after the attack on the lifeguard - I'm glad you support vigilante justice instead of that silly "police" system we have in place, but a rally attended in part by neo-Nazis and members of the Patriotic Youth League isn't protecting squat. It's spreading fear and segregation as much as any gang violence.

I'm happy - better yet, I'm proud - to say that I haven't had to deal with much in the way of gangs in my city. The only gangs I've seen around are sixteen year old white kids with Fubu jackets who quote Tupac. If you want to try and stop this rubbish from happening in your own city, it'd be a mighty good idea to stop promoting intolerance and understand that the actions of drunken youths of ANY race or religion are not representative of others like them.

 

You love dancing around the issue, then act as if you're intimidating, don't you?

We haven't moved on. Yes, we're discussing reactions to racism and you did put a question mark on the lifeguard. Why shouldn't we believe that he was blameless? There is no evidence against him. Gangs attack without blinking. They committed the physical attack, they're the ones at fault.

You have a shameful knack for justifying these unprovoked actions by gangs, but when others talk you into a corner, it's only then make elaborations on what you were so vague about before.

Hawk; that would all be nice if we had less influence in the judiciary system by the likes of Pat O'Shane and less selective policing so as "not to upset the multi-cultural balance".

 

It's still no excuse. The riots were caused by morons who thought they had the right to protect "their" beach from an entire section of the community. That doesn't excuse anyone, but the incident would be far less likely to have happened if some people could take the high road (and others just stopped spreading racist propaganda, but thankfully from what I've heard that wasn't the bulk of the people at the rally).

 

Which was exactly my point about the lifeguards. So we agree on something for a change. (I also agree about the riots.)

Expressing a contrary opinion is not a judgement, nor is it baiting someone for an argument. Prove me wrong.

Or is your ideal a forum where everybody is free to express their own opinion - as long as it's the right opinion? Should we all subscribe to the same world view so nobody takes contrary opinions as a personal judgement? That's going to be an awfully small and boring forum.

Hate to disappoint, but I already knew. It makes no difference, I don't make ad hom arguments.

Now what was that about me judging people, trying to bait people, and trying to start an argument? Funny.

 

Or is your ideal a forum where everybody is free to express their own opinion - as long as it's the right opinion? Should we all subscribe to the same world view so nobody takes contrary opinions as a personal judgement? That's going to be an awfully small and boring forum.

No, but stopping melding two entirely unrelated things and deliberately blurring lines to have a go at someone would be a good start. Also posting things like "i'm not making judgements" right after you do is pretty lame.

Anyway, Drax, this whole "defend our beaches" crap. Who for? I already know the sweeping generalisation you're making as to who from, but who are you speaking for here?

 

Yeah, the baiting stops pretty much right now. If you can't counter the argument without attacking the person, don't post. First and only warning for everyone in this thread.

 

Those who at least try to treat said area with respect, no matter what colour or culture they are.

This wouldn't have happened had those who I've "sweepingly generalised" kept to themselves, didn't intimidate women by blurting out "she's not worth 55 years", and being total imbeciles by acting as if they own the place. Bashing the lifeguard was just the spark.

If something can go wrong with multi-culturalism, you bet it will.

 

Ok Drax, so the girl who had her head covering ripped off and had a mob of "white" Australian men run off after her, what did she do?