Symbolism in Attack of the Clones (currently discussing shrouding and obscuring)

Great thread guys, this is why I love SW and this board so much!

 

This'll make Luke's being caught by the Tuskens in ANH even more poignant.


You can actually see Anakin's tear even better on the IMAX version. Looks very dramatic.

The music is also very good at this point. Symbolizing, the conflict that will be with him the rest of his life.

 

Shelley I liek your thread here. Very good topic.

 

Thanks. I was inspired by JediGaladriel and ami-padme; I just wanted to contribute a little positive discussion to counter all the bashing and negativity.

 

Good work.

Next topic: The symbolism of Jango's ship looking like a hand iron.

 

Brilliant stuff. Great read. Shall I go on making compliments to boost your egos?

Seriously, very cool stuff. I can't believe i missed the whole crucifixion thing.

This is what coming here is all about
And thanks for a more positive thread, I've regretfully been ducking from this place but you've sucked me right back in again.

"Damn you!" *shakes fist*

 

Slightly off the mark here,but it would seem that the two entrances(or exits) to the hut were also tied in with Anaki having a choice.He could have gone back out the same way he entered(and maybe escaped undetected)or he could have gone out through the front(where conflict was inevitable).

Also,if you follow cave synbolism in SW at all,the Tusken Hut seems to mesh well with that(re-birth,death,transformation).

 

I love this thread--especially Shelley's pictures. It's ironic that it's dawn when Anakin begins his massacre. We don't see too many sunrises in Star Wars--and this is certainly the most memorable one.

 

A red dawn.

"Blood has been shed this night."

 

I'm going out on a limb here, I admit, and recycling a bit, but let's see if anyone buys what I'm selling.




One of the things that intrigued me about the hut as well was the birth/death symbolism going on there. Hopefully, we all know where babies come from, and what a traumatic experience that can be. Campbell pointed out in the Power of Myth series that birth itself is a heroic process, because we go from one form of existence to another. Though we never remember the experience, it must leave a subconcious impression on our undeveloped minds.

I see Anakin's attempted rescue of his mother as a reversal of this process. He comes back to find her bound in a guarded dwelling, and must cut through the boundary to enter and rescue her. (much like a Caesarean) It ends up being too late, and in a reversal of the birthing process, Shmi fades toward death in his arms.


Please feel free to send the men with white coats after me now.

 

Shmi's death scene is one of my favorites, not because she dies, but because it was handled so well. The acting is right on, both by Permilla and HC. I went from feeling sad for Anakin to being scared of him in one split second.

On the crucifixion (sp? I know it's wrong) all I can add is that it was a very horrible death as it often took a healthy strong person up to a week to die. In Roman times, it was a great advantage to be a Roman citizen, because if you ever fell afoul of the emperor, you could not be executed by crucifixion, but only by beheading. And if the sword struck you three times without your head coming off, the executioner stopped. Of course, since your neck was severely injured, if not broken, you died anyway, just very slowly. Case in point, Saint Cecelia, who lasted three days after attempted beheading.

Lady Sami

 

On the crucifixion (sp? I know it's wrong) all I can add is that it was a very horrible death as it often took a healthy strong person up to a week to die. In Roman times, it was a great advantage to be a Roman citizen, because if you ever fell afoul of the emperor, you could not be executed by crucifixion, but only by beheading. And if the sword struck you three times without your head coming off, the executioner stopped. Of course, since your neck was severely injured, if not broken, you died anyway, just very slowly. Case in point, Saint Cecelia, who lasted three days after attempted beheading.

crucifixion beheading that's not good. The sadets part in AOTC was Shmi dieing.

 

On the crucifixion (sp? I know it's wrong)

No, actually, it's correct.

all I can add is that it was a very horrible death as it often took a healthy strong person up to a week to die.

Yes, and it basically amounted to being tortured to death. The manner in which one dies from crucifixion isn't loss of blood or starvation or thirst, though those certainly play a part. It's asphyxiation. The person must keep their legs straight or they suffocate.

It's a ghastly, ghastly way to die. Proof of just how inhuman man can be to man.

 

crucifixion beheading that's not good. The sadets part in AOTC was Shmi dieing.

Ironically, Jango Fett's beheading is, in a way, sad -- the boy Boba is forced to witness it, and he picks up his father's helmet afterward.

 

All I see symbolic to Shmi's death is that it makes Anakin's anger come out more and then he kills the Tuskens and all. The major climax to the start of becoming Darth Vader. But that's neat with the statue and all of with it being opposite of the son holding the mother instead of the other way

 

Shelley,

Yeah, it was a pretty horrible way to die. There's an excellent description of it in James Michenor's "The Source." It's pretty gruesome and since this is a family board, I won't post the details here.

Lady Sami

 

Thank you, Lady Sami. I have read descriptions of it. I can't imagine what kind of person actually thought up something so hideous as a method of execution.

I can never get through any film about the life of Jesus for that reason. Seeing crucifixion described was bad enough, I don't ever want to see it depicted on film.

I just thought of something reading back over my comment about crucifixion amounting to being tortured to death. That is basically what happened to Shmi. It's not made clear why the Tuskens captured her and were torturing her instead of just killing her -- but I think it says in the novelization that they were testing human endurance.

 

Shelley,

They usually clean it up a lot for film, thank goodness!

I thought Boba's seeing his father beheaded was sad. Two young boys see their only parent die in a terrible way.

If the Tuskens tortured her to test human endurance, since she lasted a month, I would say she passed the test.

Lady Sami

 

I think for the general symbolism stuff, maybe another symbol thread? I sort of miss my old "Random Symbols" ivory tower thread, now that I'm back in discussions...

Well JediGaladriel, your "Random Symbols" thread lives on. In fact, in my 12/19/02 post, I address Shmi?s death scene. Specifically I talk about how the scene is shot and framed. ami-padme, I also discuss the symbolism behind the sunsets in that post. (Please follow the link, I would rather not repost.)

I agree that the Anakin and Shmi form a very ironic Pieta. Thematically, I think Anakin?s reaction to Shmi?s death represents something very significant. GL was very purposeful in choosing Shimi's last words ("I love..."). Overall, he is using the character of Anakin to illustrate how a generally good person becomes evil. It's quite clear that Anakin loves Shmi as well. He has broken rules and endangered Padme and himself in order to save her. The massacre is Anakin?s first taste of the Darkside. Ironically, Anakin committees murder not because he is fundamentally bad person, but because he cares for his mother. Anakin takes Shmi?s "love" and turns it to "hate." It appears to be a very easy transition for him.

Who would have thought that Darth Vader?s decent to the Darkside began out of his love for his mother?

 

You all are off the Jedi Hook! Umph! Deep! I love this thread too!

Your insights and comments are "Impressive...most impressive!"

Good Lawd! Keep up the "droppin of the science" and the great work! Whoooooooo! Symbolism is deep when you are paying attention and know how to interpret it!

 

There may also be some symbolism behind Anakin's decapitations of the Tuskens.According to Jung(IIRC),the image of decapitation is symbolic of the need to separate oneself(the head)from the harmful impulses of the body.

If you buy that,then we could say that,by having Anakin decapitate the Tuskens,it shows that he has failed to stave off these impulses(?).

Just a thought,albeit a morbid one.

 

Two images of pity and fear with opposite outcomes. HC's fantastic acting showing the momentary change from shocked grief to icy revenge was perfect to elicit the empathetic fear and horror of the audience. The image of pity reminded me of Aristotle's discussion of pity and fear in tragedy.
Poetics XIV

This also explains why GL left most of the Tusken Slaughter offscreen and IMHO was the best choice for the drama. Padme was an audience of one and her silent and horrified gaze in the Confession, especially in the theatrical release, conformed to tragedy as described by Aristotle.

"Fear and pity may be aroused by spectacular means; but they may also result from the inner structure of the piece, which is the better way, and indicates a superior poet. For the plot ought to be so constructed that, even without the aid of the eye, he who hears the tale told will thrill with horror and melt to pity at what takes place. This is the impression we should receive from hearing the story of the Oedipus. But to produce this effect by the mere spectacle is a less artistic method, and dependent on extraneous aids. Those who employ spectacular means to create a sense not of the terrible but only of the monstrous, are strangers to the purpose of Tragedy; for we must not demand of Tragedy any and every kind of pleasure, but only that which is proper to it. And since the pleasure which the poet should afford is that which comes from pity and fear through imitation, it is evident that this quality must be impressed upon the incidents.
* * *
Let us then determine what are the circumstances which strike us as terrible or pitiful.
* * *
"[W]hen the tragic incident occurs between those who are near or dear to one another--if, for example, a brother kills, or intends to kill, a brother, a son his father, a mother her son, a son his mother, or any other deed of the kind is done---these are the situations to be looked for by the poet.

E CHU TA!, if I remember ROTJ correctly, when Luke first sets Anakin down he is in a neutral angle, with the camera just behind Luke's shoulder. After the mask is discarded, the camera is in front of Anakin, with the bulk of Anakin and Luke in our left (their right). The vertical is flipped around one more time to the original Pieta view.

FYI: It appears come 2003 we will be able to compare Pieta scenes side by side: Passion, The (2003). Mel Gibson is directing and producing this with a script in only Latin and Aramaic without subtitles, to enhance the emphasis on visual communication. I have started a thread in the Amphitheatre on that film.

 

Is this what you are talking about Falls_the_Shadow?
[image=http://168.229.236.7/~cc/picts/luk-ana2.jpg][image=http://168.229.236.7/~cc/picts/luk-ana1.jpg]

 

Is that one of the scenes that Lucas directed? I know he took over direction from Marquand in two or three ROTJ scenes.

 

I know Lucas did the Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes, but I'm not certain about Vader's death scene.