Symbolism of the scenes between Padme and Anakin

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SmoovBillyDee, Aug 30, 2002.

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  1. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Just_A_Slacker
    Well Caught!
    I was listening to the OT this weekend (fifnishing my little agnsty fic)(Classic not SE) and I noticed something.. that when Vader throws the emporer into the reactor core you hear a chours of cries and screams... it's VERYYYYYYY creepy.
    We do tend to ignore Luke's role in the Hero's journey...
  2. SmoovBillyDee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 4
    Just a Slacker

    Thanks for that input on the importance of fire in the Star Wars series. At every point that I can think of where there is fire, there is something taking place that will directly affect Anakin's life, whether it be getting accepted into the Jedi Order or having the last remnants of his life turn to ash.

    Talz

    I am of the opinion that the relationship is unhealthy. But that's just because of the nature of Anakin's character. He's not able to do anything in moderation. Everything is done to the full extent.

    Padme definately had feelings toward him, so I wouldn't consider it a "stalker" relationship. She was just listening to her more rational side, something that Anakin stated that he could not do.

    To throw caution in to the wind is never a very safe bet. And it didn't work here either.
  3. AUNTIE_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    PadmeLeiaJaina: For everyone here- they've added 2 lines of dialogue to the DVD film version during the Confession scene. Before Anakin starts to cry Padme says something like "You're only human Ani." And Ani replies "No I am a Jedi, I should have known better."

    These lines show the scene in a new light. Now Anakin is not only inconsolabe because of his mother but he feels also guilty because of the slaghter - a situation that a Jedi should not ever land. These two very strong feelings tear him on two sides. As a human and Shmi's son he feels sorrow, anger and hate - but at the same time two later are not allowed to a Jedi.

    Once again thank you PadmeLeiaJaina writing so fine analyses here :) You certainly have thought of these things and you express them so clearly.

    I agree 100% that Hayden's acting is just brilliant and heartbreaking - I cannot find words (and how handsome he is... [face_love]) But after watching the film several times I have found out fine details of Natalie's performance. Those things you PLJ write here :)

  4. Ironflak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 1
    Anakin's and Padme's relationship is interesting to see unfold. Both of these characters are out of their element when it comes to intimate relationships. And both are damaged to a degree.

    As she confesses at the meadow picnic, Padme's last boyfriend, Paolo, was when she was just 12 years old. In Episode II, Padme is 24 years old! That's a long gap between Paolo and Anakin. She has no real experience with dating because she has focused her life on politics.

    Anakin was raised without the presence of a father. Believe me, that definitely played a major role in his emotional makeup as he grew up. Then, he was taken from his mother when he was just 9 years old. Taken to be raised by a monk-like religious order that forbids intimate relationships and attachments.

    During the 10 years between Episode I and Episode II, Anakin fantasized about being with Padme. When someone fantasizes in such a manner, that person builds up an artificial over-familiarty with the subject of their obsession. This is why Anakin speaks so blatantly to Padme in her Coruscant apartment when he complains about Obi-Wan being overly critical. He hasn't seen her in 10 years and he just plows into Obi-Wan as if they had been close friends for years.

    I really like the fireplace scene because Anakin is so honest. This is why many people don't like this scene. It is not "cool" to be so on-the-nose with one's feelings. It is not "cool" to call it the way it is. Anakin is painfully honest with Padme about his feelings. It even makes her uncomfortable (from the way she squirms and moves away from him). It may not be "cool" to many people to be so honest, but this is Anakin and he is behaving like an overly-attached, lonely, neglected, inexperienced 20-year old.

    In the novel, Padme's internal conflict is relayed more clearly. She is mildly jealous that her sister has two lovely daughters and a quiter life. Padme wonders if devoting her life to politics is something that she should still do. Especially since staying with politics would mean that she wouldn't have the time to devote to building a family of her own.

    Padme is used to being surrounded by fellow politicians and bodyguards. For the first time, she is away from this element and is left unchaperoned with a male who is obviously attracted to her. Padme knows that Anakin is attracted to her for reasons other than politics. She is not used to this. Anakin definitely stirs feelings in her that she has suppressed for most of her life. She doesn't know how to react to these new feelings. Thus, her back-and-forth, I want you, I don't want you. She wears the backless dress at the lake country even though she claims she has no romantic feelings for Anakin. This is a contradiction. She rolls around in the grass with Anakin, takes him on romantic picnics, wears sexy black leather, but then says she won't give in to desire. It is interesting to watch this woman who is inexperienced with love react to Anakin's advances.

    Both Anakin and Padme admit during the fireplace scene that giving in to their desires would destroy them. When faced with death, Padme admits her love for Anakin. Would she have done this if they were not about to ostensibly die? After the battle is over, they both have the time to think things through with a clear mind again. But the first thing they do is take off unchaperoned (if you don't count the droids) to Naboo to get married. It's as if a ball was started rolling that neither of them had the strength (or desire) to stop, even though they both know it is doomed to failure. This is why I say that both Padme and Anakin are damaged.

    Both are fascinating characters to me and I am glad for the added depth both received in the story of Episdode II. It is clear to me that Padme's death in Episode III will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for Anakin. Her death is what will be the final push he needs to decide to embrace the Dark Side of the Force. When Padme falls out of the gunship, the dialog between him and Obi-Wan, in my humble opinion, foreshadow
  5. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    IronFlak

    Excellent analysis.

    When Padme falls out of the gunship, the dialog between him and Obi-Wan, in my humble opinion, foreshadows events to come:

    "You will be expelled from the Jedi Order!"

    "I don't care! I won't leave her!"

    This makes it clear where Anakin's loyalties are. Padme comes first, and if being with her or saving her means that he won't be a Jedi, then so be it.


    What is really interesting about this exchange is that OB1 is very sure that there is something really screwy with Anakin/Padme's relationship at this point. If you look at what he has to do to get Anakin to do his duty- it's rather frightening for our perfect Jedi (OB1:)

    1) He tries Friendship: "I can't take Dooku alone, I need you."

    When that fails to get through to him...

    2) He tries loyalty to the Jedi Order: "We have a job to do. You will be expelled from the Jedi Order!"

    finally when that doesn't work- what is the one thing that gets through to him.

    3) Padme. "What would Padme do in this situation?"

    The interesting thing is that over and over, Padme is THE only person Anakin truly respects and listens to. In the confession scene- he tries to BS his feelings with going off on OB1- but Padme knows better and gets him to confess what is truly wrong with him. She cares deeply enough about him to know that there is something deeper that is haunting him.

    That's interesting to take in contrast to OB1- who knows Anakin has been having violent nightmares about his mother- yet does nothing to try to find out if there may be a valid reason for them. Especially considering "Jedis don't have nightmares" they have visions.

    Even when Padme dresses Anakin down in front of Queen Jamilla, he is able to control his anger. Why? Because he loves and respects Padme and can never be truly angry with her. There is a subtle point in that scene which shows this- when Sio Biddle( or whatever his name is) asks for Anakin's opinion, Padme says "Oh Anakin is not yet a Jedi Master, he's still a Padawan learner." She's in her familiar very formal political arena, and she just refered to her protector by his first name, much like Anakin did back on Coruscant when he first saw her again. This is something Padme would never do if she wasn't already starting to fall head over heels for Anakin- the balance is shifting between them at that point. If we take it that Anakin noticed this- we might better understand why he thought he could possibly try to sneak in a kiss at the balcony. If we also note, Padme says "I shouldn't have done that," NOT "you shouldn't have done that."

    The girl was a goner- she was just letting her head do the work instead of her heart.
  6. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    What's this doing on page 2? :eek: UP!
  7. Movealong Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 1
  8. nick-skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2002
    star 1
  9. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    To tired to think or say anything intelligent.

    8-}

    UP
  10. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    A number of posts back, someone asked if the Anakin/Padme relationship was a healthy one or not... I am inclined to the "not" answer...

    For reasons that may be very understandable, and motivated by good intentions (uh oh... ;) )... I think Padme is basically reinforcing qualities in Anakin that can ONLY lead to major trouble. I have talked about this elsewhere, so I will try to keep it very short here - she is complicit in two major acts of dishonesty (Anakin's concealing the Tusken slaughter, apparently, from the Jedi, AND their relationship and MARRIAGE), and she seems inclined to indulge his impulses towards willfullness and rebeliousness. NONE of this bodes well for Anakin's future, especially since Palpatine is doubtless fostering the growth of those same traits, and relying on them to aid him in eventually turning the young would-be Jedi.

    Ultimately, Anakin is responsible for his own choices, his own path, but by refusing to make Anakin choose ("It is the Jedi or me!"), by staying quiet re the Tusken slaughter, and by fueling his headstrong tendencies towards rebelliousness, Padme is unwittingly hastening Anakin on his way towards the BIG fall...

    IMHO

    Shadow
  11. nick-skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2002
    star 1
    Well,when you come to think of it, Padme makes plenty of bad decisions in AOTC that definitely contribute to Anakin's fall and the Republic's fall.

    First of all,she tells him-reminds him of how difficult it must be to be a Jedi,not being able to see your friends e.t.c.Why the hell did she have to say that?Anyway,that's the least of her stupidities.When Ani accuses Obi-Wan of being over-critical,never listening e.t.c.all she can find to say is"ooo,how frustrating this must be", thus implying that she thinks Ani is right.Why can't she just shut up??Not to mention that she says nothing to defend Obi-Wan before Anakin in the Lars house just after the slaughter in the Tusken camp.
    She also really pisses Anakin off with her behaviour during the first half of the movie by telling him all this crap about them not being able to be together and wearing these provoking dresses,not to mention kissing him, at the same time.Taking into account Anakin's mentality, I'd expect him to kill someone in order to calm down a bit and recover from the frustration that this constant change of attitude must cause him:"Ani,now I kiss you,ooops shouldn't have done that.By the way,can you see my pants from where you are?!!".Luckily, he didn't kill anyone though..Still,I think it caused some harm to his already not exactly ideal psychology.
    Then,she tries to find excuses to justify the Tusken slaughter, trying to boost his psychology at the wrong time.She should have done that by just admitting to him the truth earlier,i.e.she loves him, or simply by not provoking him, which would be better actually.Justifying the slaughter was silly.It gave Anakin an excuse he should not have had in this matter.
    Then,she decides to go to Geonosis and help Obi-Wan..As Obi put it:"Great job".All she managed to do was to give Dooku two more prisoners.
    And of course, at the end, she marries Anakin, not telling anyone about it.Good going Padme...
    Oh, by the way.Let us not forget the wonderful replacement she found for herself in the Senate.Jar-Jar Binks.Probably couldn't find a more stupid life form within a 100000000 miles perimeter I suppose.If she could, I'm sure the IQ Gungan wouldn't have got the job,ha??Thank god,Ali-G wasn't in Coruscant at the time.....
    P.S.By the way,why are you British so crazy about that moron?Stupidest film I've ever seen..
  12. Naberrie_SkyWalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 5
    Like I said in another topic I love the WHOLE movie, but the Anakin/Padme scenes are the ones that draw me in the most. From the reunion on Courscant to the wedding at the Lake Retreat all the scenes are filled with visual,verbal and physical symbolism.

    On top of this you have, IMHO, 2 of the finest young actors today working together on the screen. Hayden performance as Anakin is spectacular. What the man says with his eyes, facial espressions and body language are worth more than a 1000 words of dialouge. Now to balance this we have Nathlie. Critics call her performance wooden.. I call it regal and remote, a perfect contrast to Hayden's edgy, emotional, in your face Anakin.

    As there have been soo many good examples have been discussed here I am just going to list a couple of my favorites.

    I love NP custumes throughout the movie. The almost Victorian severity of her Courscant outfits to the sexy femine outfits she wears when on Naboo. They show wonderful her change from Padme the Senator to Padme the woman.

    I also love the scenery on Naboo. We are basically looking at Paradise. Blue skies, pretty meadows, beautiful, warm,rich airy rooms. It is a place that anyone coudl fall in love in.

    I also like how Anakin stands behind Padme when in the throne room of Theed Palace. What touches me about this is that he seems to belong there..he fits. I never get that impression when he is shown in JC council chamber. This is not something I can really explain, at least not logically yet..just a feeling I get.

    These are just a couple of the ones that stand out to me, but there are soo many more wich is why AOTC never get boring, no matter how many times you watch it.

  13. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    I also like how Anakin stands behind Padme when in the throne room of Theed Palace. What touches me about this is that he seems to belong there..he fits. I never get that impression when he is shown in JC council chamber. This is not something I can really explain, at least not logically yet..just a feeling I get.

    Interesting observation N-P. Well Anakin was kind of Forced upon the council in the first place.

    Part of it comes to what Anakin is wearing that helps set up the tones for the scenes.

    The scenes where he's wearing his black Jedi Robe, he is always either guarded or has some sort of emotional turmoil going on:

    1. Elevator and meeting Padme again
    2. In front of the council
    3. W/ Palpy
    4. First Kiss
    5. Tatooine (whole time- never takes it off.)
    6. When he enters the Foundry.
    7. Wedding.

    When he is most relaxed and feels the most free and like himself are the times when he is not wearing his robe:

    1. Wandering in Padme's apartment talking w/ OB1- leading into and through nightclub scene.
    2. In 'disguise' before departing from Coruscant and on the freighter.
    3. At Theed- walking towards capital and in the Throne room.
    4. Meadow
    5. Dinner
    6. Fireplace scene.
    7. In the ship before reaching Geonosis
    8. Love pledge through battle and getting his arm chopped off.

    I'm not in the mood to elaborate on these points- feel free to discuss.
  14. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Naberrie_SkyWalker: I totally agree! I hate how everyone says that NP did a horrible job in AOTC She was perfect! Exactly how I expected her to act. She even reminded me of Leia in ANH and TESB because they both act regal and distant, but later we see a softer side to them, a side that loves a man and loves him with all her heart. SO I think Padmé in AOTC was the perfect mother for Luke and Leia, because I could see so many of their characteristics reflected in her. And I mentioned this about what I thought of Anakin in AOTC in another thread (too lazy to type it all again):

    Darth Vader was always my favorite character, probably because I can't remember ever not knowing that he was Luke and Leia's father. Just the fact that he would eventually turn back to the Light Side to save Luke made me like him more. I always loved how he became Anakin Skywalker again in his final moments. (Plus, I just think Vader has an awesome presence, and he's so cool.) But anyway, since I like Vader for those reasons, it goes without saying that I hoped Anakin Skywalker in AOTC would be what I had always pictured him to be. Needless to say, I watched AOTC with those thoughts in the back of my mind. And I am happy to say that the Anakin of AOTC lined up with my mental image 100%!! Everything that I had every imagined -- his love for his wife, his love for Obi-Wan, his values and morals, his emotions, the beginning of his downfall -- was truly captured onscreen. When I watch AOTC, I'm not watching Hayden playing my favorite character in a movie. I am watching Anakin Skywalker and seeing his famly's saga unfold. It's amazing!

    Yeah so you can see that I thought Hayden did a great job playing Anakin. 8-}

    Ok, I've said too much already. Forgive my rambling.
  15. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    ViariSkywalker

    Rambling is always welcomed :D
  16. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Hehehe, thanks PLJ! :D I like to ramble, if the topic suits me. Anything that has to do with the Skywalker family just calls my name. Sometimes I have to force myself not to write an entire essay on my opinions about this wonderful saga!
  17. Anakin_Skywalker20 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2000
    star 5
    help! I've fallen and I can't get up. hehehe. :) [face_laugh] ooooo
  18. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    Anakin_Skywalker20

    Where'd your nice icon with Ani and Padme go??? :eek:
  19. Naberrie_SkyWalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 5
    Vairi
    I am glad you agree with me. I dont think enough people give her proper credit. Besides the fact that she is oppisite Hayden, which in its self is a daunting task with that awesome screen presence, she is portraying a very complex role that alot of actresses could not carry off.

    PLJ
    I think your right, the Jedi Robes do give him a different presence, and I guess I would be uncomfortable in front of JC if I was him too.
  20. lori71 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    PLJ - Great observation! Let's not forget when he's making Padme "uncomfortable" while she's packing. He's wearing the robe and giving those brooding looks.

    Lori
  21. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    Lori79

    Oh dear lord- how did I manage to forget THAT scene????? Auuurrgghhh! :_| It's definitely been too long since I've seen the movie. :(

    How many days 'till Nov 12th? Oh god 65!
  22. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    Do any of you find Padme's "whose gonna make them - you?" line in the meadow picnic ironic as heck also?

    I mean after all, look who he turns out to be!!!! :)
  23. lori71 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    65 days! :_|

    [runs to bedroom and puts self in force trance...sets alarm for 64 days, 22 hours, 11 minutes....]
  24. SmoovBillyDee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 4
    I suppose it's high time I posted in my own thread again. :)

    I don't know if the Jedi Robe has anything to do with Anakin's behavior. It very well may, but I just can't come up with a connection right now. However, I do see something different when his is in his refugee clothes.

    There is something almost un-Jedi like about him when he's wearing those rags. He never uses the Force while he's wearing them, while he tends to use it quite often in his Jedi robes. He plays the part of refugee almost too well.
  25. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    IMHO every time I saw Anakin in those Jedi robes, especially on Tatooine when he's standing on the dune and then when he leaves to find his mother, it really made me think of Vader and his swirling black cape. I mean, Anakin's robes are darker than most other Jedi. I wonder if Lucas did this on purpose to make us connect Anakin with Vader more. Because if so, then it's definately working for me.
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