Symbolism of the scenes between Padme and Anakin

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SmoovBillyDee, Aug 30, 2002.

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  1. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    "He never uses the Force while he's wearing them, while he tends to use it quite often in his Jedi robes. He plays the part of refugee almost too well."

    Ahhh, the vital point... In the Jedi robes with all the trappings he is ANAKIN SKYWALKER, CHOSEN ONE AND JEDI KNIGHT. In his refugee outfit, he is Anakin Skywalker... nice you boy from a backwater planet... There are time when he is in his parttial jedi gear when he is still a bit of both... poor Ani.. he's so confused..
    OH, rumour has it that in the Directors commentary on the DVD Anakin's "Well, if it works" line isn't a joke... he just makes a nice recovery...
  2. Nai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2002
    star 4
    I mentioned this in the "Five Scenes" thread, but I thought it applied here as well:

    Beyond the obvious symbolism of Anakin's prosthetic hand at the wedding, there's also something that says a lot about Padme. Notice that she willingly takes his mechanical hand, rather than being repulsed by it as you might expect. She loves and accepts him despite his disfigurement, a sure sign of true love.
  3. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    DB

    OH, rumour has it that in the Directors commentary on the DVD Anakin's "Well, if it works" line isn't a joke... he just makes a nice recovery...

    What I believe is that Anakin is seduced by Palpatine and Palpy's personna. This is why he thinks Dictatorship is a viable option for the government and how it should be run. He views Palpy as a very wise and generous man- who has taken a keen interest in him- which to a young apprentice would be very flattering indeed. It would be like the Chief of State or something stroking some high school boy because he saw the brilliant potential in that boy.

    Would he think this if Palpy wasn't the person he had in mind? What if some idiot was the Chancellor instead, who didn't give a fig about Anakin? He'd likely bow to Padme's judgement.

    I've gotten the feeling that Anakin really doesn't understand, nor care much about politics. His line to Obi-Wan "Not another lecture, at least on the Economics of politics" seems to show that he's probably like most teens and doesn't find a lot of interest in politics. (He did of course check up on Padme over the years- but that's because of his obvious interest in her.)

    He's very open when he talks to Padme about politics, because he knows she has superior knowledge about how the process works.

    His views only stand as they do because he's enamored with Palpy. If Palpy wasn't there... well we wouldn't have the SW universe, now would we?

    Nai

    I think most of us agree that by Padme taking Anakin's new hand she accepts him completely. There are many who've written fanfics where this is actually addressed. (Shameless self plug- click on the link in my siggy for "A Moment in Time" my brief 1 post proposal scene w/ Ani and Padme.)

    I love that she takes his hand at the end of the film (ah the joy of having seen it digitally) it really shows that Padme has decided to accept everything about her man- flaws and all.
  4. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Yes, I agree... Also, remeber that Ani grew up in basicly a very chaotic and lawless enviroment. This has been addressed (very nicely in some instances) in some of the Jedi Apprentice books about how Anakin sometimes has trouble adjusting to the ordered non "look out for yourself" way of life that he's been thrown into. He and Padme' grew up with two very opposing views on government (or lack there of) and if and how things are....("I don't think the system works" to quote Anakin)

    ;)

    And yes, I believe that the act of Padme' TAKING Anakin's prostetic hand (do you remeber that SHE's the one who reaches for it) is not only a symbol of her aceptance but a foreshadowing (I'd like to hope) that she will have faith in him until her last breath...
  5. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    (takes a deep breath and stretches)

    Feels comfortable in here.

    Viari,

    GL was trying to give subtle hints to create a separation between Anakin and the rest of the Jedi. Anakin's choice of colors in his Jedi outfit and his darker robe are indications that he is stepping to the beat of his own drum.


    I also think that the "Well, if it works..." line is also symbolic of how he views things. He, personally may be complicated, but his views are simple. If you think through the logic of his argument in the meadow, you can see that though he doesn't understand politics, but he understands what government should do.

    And remember, when she asks who would make them, you?, he says "Not me, but someone. Someone wise." If you think about it, it is very much like the idea of the Guardians in Plato's Republic, except that Anakin is talking about one person instead of a class of people in that position of power.


    EDIT:

    DB,

    But isn't Anakin right that the system isn't working?

    Nute Gunray still running free. Corruption everywhere that even the Jedi recognize it.

    And I would like to believe that about Padme as well. To her last breath.

  6. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    Ahhh, the vital point... In the Jedi robes with all the trappings he is ANAKIN SKYWALKER, CHOSEN ONE AND JEDI KNIGHT. In his refugee outfit, he is Anakin Skywalker... nice you boy from a backwater planet... There are time when he is in his parttial jedi gear when he is still a bit of both... poor Ani.. he's so confused..

    I agree DB, he seems much more relaxed when in the refugee outfit and of course (the shirt, ya know which one I'm talkin about.. ;) ) I think the fact that he's more uptight (for lack of a better word) does symbolize that he doesn't feel 100% "at home" in the Jedi world either... Sad.... :(
  7. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Ahh Jedi-Es... It's like sinking into a hot tub after a long hard slog... I wonder if The Pool Boy would take a day off and work for me privetly here once and a while... ;)

    But isn't Anakin right that the system isn't working?

    Ohhh.. we could brush political here and say that it's a reflection of modern times here in the US too... *DB bats her eyelashes giving away her own Political leanings*

    And I would like to believe that about Padme as well. To her last breath.

    *Padme's Pate' in E-3.... Her pure LOVE of Ani keeps him in the light and in the end, it is a product of that love that brings him BACK....

    And rhonderoo I feel Ani has the "Stranger in a Strange Land" Syndrom. He was "reborn" as a Jedi but still clings to his other life... when he returns to Tatooien he really doen't fit in there either... In Padme, not only does he find love, but acceptance as well...




  8. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Well, every once in a while, you just have to stop and say What?

    In the book, Padme flinched away from his metal hand. So now GL decides to overthrow that and make it look like she accepts it. Pleaze! (Deliberate misspelling for effect)>

    Also, sometimes the lighting is just a product of the time of day. Of course you have a picnic in the sunshine, no one has a picnic in the rain. Of course you have dinner at sunset, nothing special about that.

    And of course, in really romantic scenes, you have firelight or candlelight.

    If you really want to be romantic, have a picnic on the beach at midnight with a bonfire.
  9. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    DB,

    If you're waiting for the pool boy, don't I get a pool girl? ;)


    We could brush the political leanings a bit, but that does usually cause trouble. I would rather speak philosophically about politics, because in practical terms, I think they are all crooked in one way or another. Debating the idealogy is a lot more fun than debating what party is right or wrong, because they all sell out.

    I would debate that politics, by their very nature, are corrupt in all times. I think that I read it somewhere that "politics attracts those that can be corrupted."

    But in the SW galaxy, which IS what we are talking about, I think GL makes it clear that the Republic has ceased to be just and is becoming corrupt, and the epitome of that is Palpatine.

    EDIT:

    Hey, DB, did something just happen to the hot tub, like it became freezing cold all of a sudden?


  10. Nai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2002
    star 4
    You know, Padme accepts his relatively minor disfigurement in AOTC, and Luke accepts his complete disfigurement in ROTJ. Unconditional love is really a key element to the saga. Just a parallel I considered.
  11. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    *Hey, DB, did something just happen to the hot tub, like it became freezing cold all of a sudden?*

    Chokes back laughter....

    NOOOOOOO Comment....

    Right... I'll conceed that we should leave present day poly's out of things... :D


    "In the book, Padme flinched away from his metal hand. So now GL decides to overthrow that and make it look like she accepts it."

    There are two novelizations of AOTC, one in which she did that, the other in which (IMHO, actually has a much better discription of the whole scene) where they both have doubts but the kiss that seals their union pushes everything (properly) into the background.

  12. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    jedi-ES,

    yes i agree with that explanation too. I figured that Anakin was different from other Jedi (for obvious reasons...Chosen One, etc) and that was one reason for his choice in color for the robes, tunic, and so on. But once we got to the scenes on Tatooine, I began to see a reflection of the future Vader. This is just my personal feeling and I was wondering if anyone else felt the same way. Vader/Anakin is my favorite character, so I'm always looking for little things to bridge the gap between the two trilogies. So for me, just seeing Anakin standing out, wearing clothes that are darker and more disturbing (many Jedi are disturbed by Anakin's garb) makes the whole OT all the more real and exciting for me. That's my thought anyways. ;)
  13. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Was it JUST me or did Anakin's robes SEEM darker once he got to Taootien... even in the bright sunlight....
  14. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    You're not the only one, although I was afraid to say it for fear of sounding stupid. Before Tatooine, they looked like dark brown, like Qui-Gon's robe. But when he got to Tatooine, I could've sworn they were black. That's why he seemed so Vader-like. (Also, the whole Tusken Raider massacre thing...that was enough to warrant a playing of the Imperial March, which I had been looking forward to) 8-}
  15. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    :D

    You can see at that point Anakin looses the last of his innocence... It's so very sad...

    He gives Padme a LITTLE smile in the ship on the way to Geonosis, but even after the love confession in the arena, his expression is so bitter sweet, even at his wedding... A far cry from the laughter in the field or even at the Dinner Table...
  16. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    DB,

    yeah, that was so sad. He's my favorite character...my heart broke for him when Shmi died, when he told Padméabout killing the sandpeople, and when he wanted to go rescue Obi-Wan but was afraid to disobey...you know, I felt sad for him for the rest of the movie after that. I cried so much when Shmi died. Anakin's expression...need I say more? Yeah, the playing of the Emperor's theme and the Imperial March during the confession scene definately gave me chills. *shudders* I was like "it has begun..."
  17. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    DB and Viari,

    I agree with both of you concerning the shade of his robe on Tatooine and on the use of music in the scenes on Tatooine.

    It very much is saying to the audience: "a part of Anakin is dying."

    And in regards to both of you guys mentioning Anakin's expressions since he arrives on Tatooine, I think that his outer appearance and expressions are starting to mirror the conflict that is within him.

    The only moment where we see any relief or joy in his expressions since he arrives on Tatooine till the end of the movie is at the wedding. If you look at his face, he does smile to her. And I would suggest that what we see in Ep. III is that the moments that he is with Padme, he is calm and generally okay, but when he is away from her, and it doesn't matter who he is with, that he presents a more brooding manner, sadder, and more melancholy. And these expression changes will be a foreshadowing of when Padme dies. When she dies, IMO, that last part of him that died a little with the death of Shmi, will die altogether, and he will turn.

    But very good observations. I like how we encourage discussion here.
  18. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    I know it's been discussed to death but in the confessin scene, does anyone else notice how he looks down at his hands when he makes the intial confesssion to Padme'? How he has his back to her, but is looking down on his hands ALA Lady Macbeth (Out out damn spot). It's also been mentioned (forgive me but I know it was one of the more briilaint posters observation) that in the Garage Padme' looks almost "Madona" like (as in the Christ mother figure) with the pose and the back lighting... what a wonderfull image... For those familiar with the christian mythos it brings to mind the story of Jesus in the garden at Gesesathme (sp) where Jesus ask to have the "cup taken from his lips"... How does one "quit" being the chosen one?
  19. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    "Well, every once in a while, you just have to stop and say What?

    In the book, Padme flinched away from his metal hand. So now GL decides to overthrow that and make it look like she accepts it. Pleaze!"




    Let me stop in and put out this little brushfire.


    Text directly quoted from AOTC novelization:




    "On distant Naboo, in a rose-covered arbor overlooking the sparkling lake, Anakin and Padme stood hand in hand, Anakin in formal Jedi robes and Padme in a beautiful white gown with flowered trim. Anakin's new mechanical arm hung at his side, the fingers clenching and opening in reflexive movements.

    Before them stood a Naboo holy man, his hands raised above their heads as he recited ancient texts of marriage.

    And when the proclamation was made, R2-D2 and C-3PO, bearing witness to the union, whistled and clapped.

    And Anakin Skywalker and Padme Amidala shared their first kiss as husband and wife."




    I also checked the AOTC Screenplay in the Art of AOTC book. No mention of it there.


    :confused:


  20. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    It's in the book, the book, the book.

    Read the book!
  21. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    There there Lady Kenobi, those nice young men in thier clean white coats have your medication all ready for you.


    [face_love] :p
  22. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    DB

    [face_laugh]

    BTW I just checked my copy of the novel (written by RA Salvatore)- and the last page is exactly as Abstract wrote.
  23. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    DB and jedi-ES,

    Yes, discussion is awesome! (That's why I come here ;)) I love discussing about Anakin for obvious reasons..favorite character and all...and it's nice that I can find people who I can have an intelligent discussion with! Thanks! Yeah I never noticed the way he looks down at his hands in the confession scene, but now that I think of it, that would make the scene even more powerful. I'm always looking for little things in the scene that speak to me and make me truly feel like I'm in a galaxy far far away. Great talking to you all!
  24. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Well, there you have it. Post withdrawn. I'll go play with the big kids who don't resort to personal insults. P. S. I will pm a mod, Darthbreezy dear.

  25. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    Lady Sami


    Post Proof Or Retract.


    8-}

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