Symbolism of the scenes between Padme and Anakin

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SmoovBillyDee, Aug 30, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. lori71 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Myth is about experience, intentional or not, not anything so trite as "meaning."

    Beautifully stated!
  2. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    "I mean, if you're walking through the woods one day and you see a beautiful lakeside scene with sun and flowers and trees blowing in the wind, does it really matter whether or not it's intentional? No, according to Campbell. Myth is about experience, intentional or not, not anything so trite as "meaning.""



    Excuse me, while I hop on this bandwagon.




    Score another one for our resident scholar. Really enjoyed the last article. This last point sums up Star Wars for me. Anyone else care to agree? :D






  3. KosmicKnine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Viari, I always thought that Shmi had to be force-sensitive to some degree, though no "evidence" is given.

    I, also, have thought that Shmi is Force-sensitive. For me, one piece of evidence is her line in TPM, "He can help you; he was meant to help you." If part of a Force-sensitive's abilities is seeing the future in a way that it comes through in a natural "feeling" way, as evidenced in Anakin's pure reactionary piloting skills during the pod race, that line could mean that Shmi is sensing the future of Anakin really helping Qui-Gon and party.
  4. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    JediHeretic47

    Where is JC's "Mythology of Love" essay published in? It's not in "Hero with a Thousand Faces," right?

    I think I may have missed that one. I'd be very interested in reading it. (Slightly grumbles at the prospect of shelling out another $20 for another JC book- but always willing to do so :D )

    Oh and FABULOUS points regarding the symbolism and mythology- as always :D
  5. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    "Campbell's essay on "The Mythology of Love?"

    That is SOOOOOOOOOO PLJ territory LOLOL! Our resident JC expert...


    Yes, I agree that the silence at the end of the confesion scene is the best... I just love how HC conviese (sp) that whole scene... he's so on the verge of MADNESS... tears, almost smileing... he's having a mini breakdown right beofre our eyes....
  6. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    Heretic,

    I have to agree with the 19th century critic you quoted from. Genius is only truly genius when it is unconscious. When it is conscious and forced, the quality of the creation is never at par with that of true genius.

    You remember how Mozart, who IMHO I believe is the greatest genius ever, wrote music? He wrote music like he was taking dictation. It was coming right through him, there was no conscious effort on his part. That's why all of the surviving original pieces of music from him are perfect, with no corrections.

    EDIT:

    DB,

    I have to think that with the way that HC acts, silence is a good thing because there is such that you can get from his eyes, his facial expressions and his body language that words are almost a bad thing. (which I am sure some have said about the fireplace scene)

    But I do think that the inserted words do clear up any suspicion about whether or not he knows it was wrong and that he is sorry for it.




  7. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    PLJ


    JC's work is in the Creative Mythology book I have. It's chock full of good vitamins and minerals.



    DB

    mini-breakdown? What would you consider a real breakdown? 8-}

  8. JediHeretic47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 1
    Thank you Abstract. And thanks for all the plugs you've given me here and there. Very nice my friend.

    PLJ, I give you another bow, and refer you to "Myths to Live By." It's a wonderful little collection of Campbell essays, and while it is out in at least three different formats, the small softcover one is only about six dollars or so. It would be right up your alley.

    Jedi ES, precisely what I'm talking about. Mozart is a fabulous example. BTW, we're having a good discussion about naturalism and the like under my last article at Suite101 that hits on very similar ideas.

    This is coming from another Campbell lecture/essay called "The Importance of Rites," and it's just too bloody good NOT to be typed up here -

    "I recall with unmitigated loathing the reviews that appeared of Finnegans Wake in 1939. It was not enough that truly epochal work was dismissed as unintelligible: it was dismissed with highfaultin disdain as an arrant hoax and waste of everyone's time; whereas two years later Thornton Wilder's The Skin of our Teeth, which is based entirely, from beginning to end, on the inspiration, themes and characters, plot motifs, and even incidental details drawn directly, obviously, and unashamedly from the great Irishman's Finnegans Wake, was awarded the journalistic Pulitzer Prize as the greatest American play of that blessed season. Practically without exception the significant modern work has, in the first place, an extremely difficult time coming to public notice at all, and in the second place, if it does ever appear, the so-called critics will almost certainly knock it out."
  9. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Okay Okay... I conceed the point... ;)

    Anakin has lost it at that point... he's teetering on the very edge of sanity here, maybe that's why that is such a hard scene to watch... We see this brash, sweet young man have his "Lady Macbeth" moment and then he brushes the very edge of insanity... I dread to think HOW he would have reacted if it had been Obi-wan there insted of Padme'... I don't think he would have hurt obiwan persay but a suicide attempt would not have been out of the question....
  10. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    DB,

    I have actually debated in my mind, what Anakin may go through when he finds out that Padme is dead, and I do think that it is a possibility that he may contemplate suicide for a moment. That he may think that life is no longer worth living. And perhaps, it is in this moment of psychosis that Palpy comes in and says "why are you blaming yourself when you can blame who is really at fault: Obi-Wan and the Jedi," and turns that sadness into hate.

    Interesting, huh?


    Heretic,

    I may check that Suite101 article out.

    I have been reading a few things. First off, great quote you wrote. But I think that the two worst groups that you can listen to are the critics and the lovers (of your work). The critics don't know anything and the lovers are blind.

    I also think that GL makes a concerted effort not to try to win awards for the SW movies. Contrary to popular belief, awards have ruined more creative people than have helped.

    Just an opinion.
  11. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    Hey JediHeretic47


    That sounds a lot like what JC would probably be saying now about the response to TPM and AOTC. Even in the afterlife he leaves his nuggets of wisdom.
  12. JediHeretic47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 1
    Before I slip off to dreamland, all this has got me thinking about a wonderful little incident that took place at DragonCon last weekend.

    I was there with a few friends from an online Buffy philosophy group (no typo - yes an online Buffy philosophy group), and at 1:00 we attended a lecture in the Writer's Room called The Hero's Journey. They had many different writers there, both authors of fiction and non. I knew it was going to be an interesting show when Tracy Hickman walked in with a copy of The Hero With a Thousand Faces tucked under his arm.

    Anyway, one gentleman - I believe he wrote the Doom books - was yapping on and on about how the concept of the hero was dead and that archetypes were non-existent and that Campbell didn't know what he was talking about and that myths were essentially hooey. You get the picture. It should be a pretty familar routine to those of you who post around here. As a matter of fact, I heard the same thing a few hours later down at the Star Wars conference room during the Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate.

    Now, I really have no interest in convincing anybody of anything these days. I write and interpret Star Wars because I find it personally entertaining and amusing. I do think it does have social value like all myths, but if everyone wants to ignore it, that's okay too.

    But anyhow, after a few minutes of this kind of dialogue, Tracy Hickman just kind of looks down at the end of the conference table at this guy. When he is done talking, Hickman sort of paused for a moment, then says into the microphone, "You know, there's really one way I can respond to that - Jane you ignorant slut."

    And while I'm not out to convert anyone to Campbellism, I am not the least bit bashful about saying that that one brought the house down.
  13. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    JediHeretic47

    ROTFLMAO!!!!! [face_laugh]

    Pleasant dreams! :D
  14. KosmicKnine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Now, I really have no interest in convincing anybody of anything these days.

    More and more as the days progress, I walk more and more to that side of town. I've spent way more of my relatively short life trying to convince people of a great many things, and I'm honestly sick of that process. I'm ready to just sit and be content and let people who don't see things the way I do just go about their frothing, howling business.

    As for Hickman, I can only think of one word:

    Hooyah!

  15. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    ?[face_plain]

    Who's Jane???

    Boy do I feel ou tof the loop! Glad I'm not a Jane!!! LOLOLOL

    I don't think GL will imply or explicitly show Ani contemplating self distruction but he might hint about it around the edges....
  16. Dayda_Amidala Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 3
    from the aotc novel:

    She lay awake in the dark for a long, long while, thinking of Anakin, thinking that she wanted to be there beside him, holding him, helping him through his troubled dreams. She tried to dismiss the notion- they had already covered this dangerous ground and had come to an understanding of what must be. And that agreement did not include her climbing into bed beside Anakin.

    [face_plain]

    [face_shocked]

    [face_blush]

    ;)

    [face_laugh]

  17. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    And that agreement did not include her climbing into bed beside Anakin.

    OHHHHH!

    If SHE wouldn't.... *I would*

    *giggle*
  18. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    She has amazing self control that Padme.
  19. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    I have actually debated in my mind, what Anakin may go through when he finds out that Padme is dead, and I do think that it is a possibility that he may contemplate suicide for a moment. That he may think that life is no longer worth living. And perhaps, it is in this moment of psychosis that Palpy comes in and says "why are you blaming yourself when you can blame who is really at fault: Obi-Wan and the Jedi," and turns that sadness into hate.

    Interesting, huh?


    I think this is ALMOST a sure bet as far as the Palpy part, almost mind you....*ducks and runs*

    I agree that he may "give up" - not do him harm per se, but just let go of the ledge over the lava pit so to speak in THE duel when he could have come back out and whipped the rest of Obi's you know what. Theory and hypothesis of couse.... ;/

    Either way you and I know that we'd NOT want to be there when he does find out that someone, anyone has harmed Padme. And if he knows that she's pregnant and someone harmed her or is trying to keep him from his child......watch out!!!
  20. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    It's too bad that Anakin doesn't have self control because if he had, he wouldn't resort to massacreing an entire village of Tuskens after losing his mother nor would he had gone insane when Padme fell off the gunship.
  21. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Minor correction... Anakin doesn't go crazy when P falls out of the transport bt he does get into a nasty tiffy with Obi...
  22. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    He actually does exhibit some remarkable self control compared to what we've seen from him on Tatooine. I was actually proud of him on the gunship. He tamped down that amazing ability to feel the living force that he has. And as far as the Tusken village goes, I think the added scenes in the DVD will put the whole theory that he murdered and felt no remorse to rest. (IMO he felt remorse in the scenes in the movies, but alas some do not feel the same...). One thing I find ironic is when he is most powerful as Vader he exhibits ASTONISHING self control... Vader exudes control (man even he was sexy!!!! ) :)
  23. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    I wonder why some people think that in the confession scene Anakin wasn't feelign remorse. I mean it's ok if you think that, but for me it was painfully obvious the turmoil and the confusion going on inside him. I mean, first he was shifting blame for his mother's death. When I fist saw the movie I was worried that Anakin would just blame Obi-Wan and that would be it. But when Padmé asked him what was wrong, because she knew something else was going on, I held my breath because I knew something monumental (at least for me) was coming. When he started saying how he killed them, and I mean the way he kept repeating it, and then he turned around and said how he killed the women and the children, the look on his face was very frightening, but he also looked haunted. You could see in his eyes that he knew what he'd done and he was still trying to come to terms with it. Then the tears when he said "I hate them!" I knew that he did indeed hate them, but he felt deep, painful regret for what he had done. So IMHO, the silence at the end of that scene is great, but I'm still open to hearing the extra dialogue. (I just hope it doesn't ruin the mood 8-})

    BTW, I agree...Anakin does exhibit self-control at some times, and as Vader he also shows great self-control.
  24. ViariSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Must not let thread die!! UP!
  25. JediHeretic47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 1
    Well, Kosmic, it really comes down to an issue of control. Do any of us want to control fan reaction, or do we want to enjoy being fans ourselves? As Anakin's tenure as Vader demonstrates, you can't enjoy what you're always trying to control. The theme of the prequels is letting go, but it's the theme of the fan as well.

    Or as Shmi might say -

    "But you can't stop the bashing - anymore than you can stop the suns from setting."
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.